Also In The News

[Countryfox]

48 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I’m not sure I agree really.  It was an accident after all.  There is no suggestion she was drunk or anything.  It would be daft to break diplomatic immunity for such a case.

 

Nah ...   she's got to come back and face the music.  DI and its abuse is commonplace ...  nice card to play if you are from a hostile state and you want to pop over and poison someone or shoot a female police officer out of the embassy window.  But this is the US ...  a friendly nation ...   an ally.  Imo she should be 'asked' by her own government to come back and be investigated the same as anyone else ...   if she was found guilty and given a suspended sentence justice would be seen to have been done.  OK ...  it may affect her ability to get credit when she wants a new iphone ..  but hey-ho thats life.

 

Personally i think more exposure and comment should occur until something happens.  I also read somewhere that she has 'form' ...  who knows, maybe she was on the phone ...   or had had a few drinks (or drugs) ...   which would be very hard to prove but not impossible.  "I'm sorry" just does not cut it for me and just adds to the anger the parents feel.  And lets not forget ...  and innocent19 year old lost his life ...   I'm sure if it was the other way round and a Brit did this in the states it would be very different ...  and old nylon head would be tweeting like mad.

[Countryfox]

On a lighter note ...   I get all this ..   if you aren't really dead and 'wake up' ...     a Chinese take away for your last meal ..  a phone to try and get help ...   a violin to have a bit of music ...   a teddy bear to cuddle up to ...  a few bottles of beer to try and drown your sorrows at the thought of your impending slow death ...   a torch to lay at your side enabling you to make funny shadows on the side of the coffin with your hands (a barking dog was always my favourite) ...  some playing cards to help pass away the last few agonising days of your life ....     but a bleedin dustpan and brush !! ...   to keep the coffin tidy !!! ...   FOOK OFF !!!!

 

 

[Mike Oxlong]

 

I see that Donald is in trouble for the showing of this to attendees at a Pro-Trump function at one of his Florida resorts

Edited 14 October 2019 by Mike Oxlong

[MC Prussian]

19 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

 

I see that Donald is in trouble for showing part of this to attendees at a function at one of his Florida resorts

The video had been out for over a year already, the "trouble" stems from "journalists" and some particular media outlets seemingly not knowing The Kingsman movie.

The movie itself is nearly five years old.

 

I'd say the (US) media have better and more important things to report.

[Mike Oxlong]

14 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

The video had been out for over a year already, the "trouble" stems from "journalists" and some particular media outlets seemingly not knowing The Kingsman movie.

The movie itself is nearly five years old.

 

I'd say the (US) media have better and more important things to report.

I’d say the trouble stems from it being played at a pro Trump  function at a Trump property when gun crime and control and press freedom is part of the political debate 

[MC Prussian]

14 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

I’d say the trouble stems from it being played at a pro Trump  function at a Trump property when gun crime and control and press freedom is part of the political debate 

Well, it's a movie. Whether it glorifies violence is another matter. I think it's quite funny if you don't take it too literally or seriously.

It was a conference on private Trump property, they can do whatever they want.

Sounds a bit too much like guilt by association to me.

 

Based on recent news, Trump himself doesn't seem to be too pleased with the video having been played at the resort.

And again, the video's now a year old - if people find it offensive, they've already had twelve months' time to file a complaint to have it removed.

[Izzy]

Oh Gazza..

Paul Gascoigne sex assault trial: Ex-footballer 'sloppily' kissed woman

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50041711

 

The ex-England star, who denies sexual assault by touching, told police he had "kissed a fat lass" to give her a "confidence boost", jurors were told.

[oxford blue]

20 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

Trump hasn't pulled all troops out of Syria. Surely there are other nations involved, as well? Troops that could make a much bigger impact than the 100 remaining US soldiers.

How many UK and French contingencies are still down there?

The US troops are the only ones there, althogh there may be some UK SAS men. The important point is the message Trump sent to Erdogan; the US were not going to resist a Turkish offensive (as evidenced by Turks firing on US troops at an "observation" pos)t. It is reasonable the US may wish to withdraw their men, but it should have been done in a structured way with co-operation, to ensure there was no  humanitarian disaster Trump has caused. 

[Wymsey]

4 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Oh Gazza..

Paul Gascoigne sex assault trial: Ex-footballer 'sloppily' kissed woman

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50041711

 

The ex-England star, who denies sexual assault by touching, told police he had "kissed a fat lass" to give her a "confidence boost", jurors were told.

He was seen smiling whilst going into court.

Don't think he has any remorse over this imo.

Edited 14 October 2019 by Wymeswold fox

[MC Prussian]

1 minute ago, oxford blue said:

The US troops are the only ones there, althogh there may be some UK SAS men. The important point is the message Trump sent to Erdogan; the US were not going to resist a Turkish offensive (as evidenced by Turks firing on US troops at an "observation" pos)t. It is reasonable the US may wish to withdraw their men, but it should have been done in a structured way with co-operation, to ensure there was no  humanitarian disaster Trump has caused. 

The question remains whether 100 or 200 troops would've made the difference in halting the Turkey offensive.

I just think it's a bit simplistic and hypocritical to now point the finger of guilt at the US alone for letting this happen.

[Izzy]

Just now, Wymeswold fox said:

He was seen smiling whilst going into court.

Don't think he was any remorse over this imo.

I genuinely reckon he thinks what he did was fine and normal behavior.

 

Genius footballer but thick as pig shit.

[Mike Oxlong]

13 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Well, it's a movie. Whether it glorifies violence is another matter. I think it's quite funny if you don't take it too literally or seriously.

It was a conference on private Trump property, they can do whatever they want.

Sounds a bit too much like guilt by association to me.

 

Based on recent news, Trump himself doesn't seem to be too pleased with the video having been played at the resort.

And again, the video's now a year old - if people find it offensive, they've already had twelve months' time to file a complaint to have it removed.

Yeah but who doesn’t like a bit of shit flying DT’s way ? 
 

I know you do 

[MC Prussian]

4 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

Yeah but who doesn’t like a bit of shit flying DT’s way ? 
 

I know you do 

I find it somewhat amusing to see to what great lengths the US media go in order to talk about him. Anything will do, as long as it fills the program.

 

This obsession is crazy - other, more important issues are just thrown out the window sadly.

[Mike Oxlong]

24 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

I find it somewhat amusing to see to what great lengths the US media go in order to talk about him. Anything will do, as long as it fills the program.

 

This obsession is crazy - other, more important issues are just thrown out the window sadly.

But he is a cnut isn’t he ! 

Edited 14 October 2019 by Mike Oxlong

[Carl the Llama]

1 hour ago, MC Prussian said:

The video had been out for over a year already, the "trouble" stems from "journalists" and some particular media outlets seemingly not knowing The Kingsman movie.

The movie itself is nearly five years old.

 

I'd say the (US) media have better and more important things to report.

Oh do give it up for one day mate.  I remember you and the other usual suspects crying bloody murder when that actress got in trouble for the severed Trump head stunt.  I recall the idea of pretending to kill a real human being was considered appalling and distasteful by the usual right-wing commenters.  I guess left wing figures aren't human enough to pretend to be outraged over depicted killings?

[Dr The Singh]

So glad to see the 'god men' and political cults being investigated and sounded out. 

 

https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-who-are-radha-soami-satsang-beas-dera-malvinder-shivinder-singh-religare-6068897/

[MC Prussian]

2 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

Oh do give it up for one day mate.  I remember you and the other usual suspects crying bloody murder when that actress got in trouble for the severed Trump head stunt.  I recall the idea of pretending to kill a real human being was considered appalling and distasteful by the usual right-wing commenters.  I guess left wing figures aren't human enough to pretend to be outraged over depicted killings?

Well, as far as the Kathy Griffin incident (which occurred in late May 2017), at least the now closed "President Trump & the USA" thread gives nothing away. It's not mentioned in there (starting somewhere on page 31).

Maybe you'll find the proof yourself in order to cement your theory, maybe in another, now closed "news" thread.

Anyway, I'm not going the current "I'm offended" route, you can say what you want - just try to stick to the correct quotes.

 

Some would call it art, looking back I'd still call it tasteless. As soon as art is undercut by politics, it's tough to call it art any longer.

Still don't get how you can toss me into the same "right-wing" pot with others on here who are distinctively more conservative than I am. I don't consider myself right-wing, I vote pragmatic, for both sides, and I don't think in terms of strict party policies.

So, as for Trump, I've criticized and mocked him on numerous occasions - see the aforementioned thread from page 61 onward.

 

You do certainly see the difference between an artist attacking Trump as a person (with a severed head), being condemned instantly

(even CNN found it appalling! https://www.iheartradio.ca/cjay92/trending/kathy-griffin-holding-a-severed-trump-head-1.2649669)

and apologizing for her own mishap (her own undoing) - and a one year-old video, neither produced nor endorsed by Trump that pokes fun at the liberal US media and their very own agenda. Now trying to tie the video to Trump does actually show how the US media operate - they are so savvy for Trump material, it literally trumps everything else. Trump sells best, after all.

Keep the unrest alive for the audience rates. Push division instead of unity.

As long as cases such as the Covington High School kids videos are being reported on in the manner they were reported on, the criticism of the US media will continue.

 

 

[Finnaldo]

20 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Some would call it art, looking back I'd still call it tasteless. As soon as art is undercut by politics, it's tough to call it art any longer.

That’s an extremely left field take. Many of the most famous Renaissance painters in Italy were hired in what was basically a ‘culture war’ between Italian States, the whole underpinning was to prove monetary and cultural dominance over the others. The politics behind it was a major factor. 
 

Picasso: extremely left wing to the point of Communism. ‘Guernica’ and ‘The Dream and Lie of Franco’ were both massively political pieces regarding Fascism and the Spanish National Regime.

 

More recently, Banksy, his entire portfolio is political in one way or the other. 
 

That’s off the top of my head. Honestly in a modern context, you could argue a cornerstone of art is to challenge or critique existing societal or political structures. What IS art without that context? 

[MC Prussian]

32 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

That’s an extremely left field take. Many of the most famous Renaissance painters in Italy were hired in what was basically a ‘culture war’ between Italian States, the whole underpinning was to prove monetary and cultural dominance over the others. The politics behind it was a major factor. 
 

Picasso: extremely left wing to the point of Communism. ‘Guernica’ and ‘The Dream and Lie of Franco’ were both massively political pieces regarding Fascism and the Spanish National Regime.

 

More recently, Banksy, his entire portfolio is political in one way or the other. 
 

That’s off the top of my head. Honestly in a modern context, you could argue a cornerstone of art is to challenge or critique existing societal or political structures. What IS art without that context? 

Was it politics, though? It sounds more like safeguarding status to me.

 

When I say "politics undercutting art", how many of these great painters you mention let politics shine through explicitly in their art AND then felt like telling the world all about it?

We should also neither forget nor underestimate the impact the media have today - whatever we do, whatever artists do, it takes a click on a Social Media site and what you do is known to millions of people instantly. We then leave art and move towards activism and attention-seeking.

What Picasso did back in the days was known to a much smaller circle of people, it had a smaller (immediate) impact on the whole.

 

It's great to have a few previous examples at hand, but to me, what you're doing is rather making a case for exceptions proving the rule.

 

I think art ultimately transcends the concept of politics, it's probably closest to portraying and challenging inherent human behaviour, society or macrocosms more than anything.

Edited 15 October 2019 by MC Prussian

[Carl the Llama]

8 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

Well, as far as the Kathy Griffin incident (which occurred in late May 2017), at least the now closed "President Trump & the USA" thread gives nothing away. It's not mentioned in there (starting somewhere on page 31).

Maybe you'll find the proof yourself in order to cement your theory, maybe in another, now closed "news" thread.

Anyway, I'm not going the current "I'm offended" route, you can say what you want - just try to stick to the correct quotes.

 

Some would call it art, looking back I'd still call it tasteless. As soon as art is undercut by politics, it's tough to call it art any longer.

Still don't get how you can toss me into the same "right-wing" pot with others on here who are distinctively more conservative than I am. I don't consider myself right-wing, I vote pragmatic, for both sides, and I don't think in terms of strict party policies.

So, as for Trump, I've criticized and mocked him on numerous occasions - see the aforementioned thread from page 61 onward.

 

You do certainly see the difference between an artist attacking Trump as a person (with a severed head), being condemned instantly

(even CNN found it appalling! https://www.iheartradio.ca/cjay92/trending/kathy-griffin-holding-a-severed-trump-head-1.2649669)

and apologizing for her own mishap (her own undoing) - and a one year-old video, neither produced nor endorsed by Trump that pokes fun at the liberal US media and their very own agenda. Now trying to tie the video to Trump does actually show how the US media operate - they are so savvy for Trump material, it literally trumps everything else. Trump sells best, after all.

Keep the unrest alive for the audience rates. Push division instead of unity.

As long as cases such as the Covington High School kids videos are being reported on in the manner they were reported on, the criticism of the US media will continue.

 

 

Trump tied it to Trump by using the video. Unbelievable gymnastics Jeff. 

 

It's truly remarkable how many right-wingers don't view themselves as such despite devoting all their political energy towards dissing left-wing causes and shielding the right from any criticism, usually at the cost of consistent logic. 'I'm not right-wing I'm a classic liberal' has become the catchphrase of the school of youtube politics.

[MC Prussian]

35 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Trump tied it to Trump by using the video. Unbelievable gymnastics Jeff. 

 

It's truly remarkable how many right-wingers don't view themselves as such despite devoting all their political energy towards dissing left-wing causes and shielding the right from any criticism, usually at the cost of consistent logic. 'I'm not right-wing I'm a classic liberal' has become the catchphrase of the school of youtube politics.

Trump didn't use the video, it was shown at a convention at one of his resorts:

Quote

The American Priority conference organizer, Alex Phillips, says organizers were not aware of the video and did not approve its usage at the event. Phillips said it was part of a "meme exhibit" that was played in a "side room" and submitted by third parties.

Trump was unaware of the video up until it was shown that day.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/10/14/trump-video-what-we-know-violent-fake-video/3975866002/

 

But hey, carry on with your guilt by association stance. Trump is seen in a video that he did neither create, nor show, nor approve of. He must be guilty!

It shows how shallow, misinformed and desperate some people have become when they're trying to put anything on Trump, simply anything.

 

And no, just because you think I'm right-wing doesn't make me right-wing (or conservative, for what it's worth).

I'm pragmatic in my views and vote for both sides whenever I can - which is very often. Politics to me is getting past partisan hackery, in a democracy it takes people from the entire political range (sauf the extremes) to make politics work.

If you think calling pragmatists, liberals or libertarians conservative now just because they are to your right in the political spectrum, you are part of the problem.

 

I don't like Trump, I'm amused by the Democrats and the US media with regards to the great lengths they go to divert from actual tangible politics, avoiding discussing the real issues at hand.

 

Thank you. You have exposed yourself to be quite the intolerant type more than anything - at least when it comes to Trump.

[Carl the Llama]

40 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Trump didn't use the video, it was shown at a convention at one of his resorts:

Trump was unaware of the video up until it was shown that day.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/10/14/trump-video-what-we-know-violent-fake-video/3975866002/

 

But hey, carry on with your guilt by association stance. Trump is seen in a video that he did neither create, nor show, nor approve of. He must be guilty!

It shows how shallow, misinformed and desperate some people have become when they're trying to put anything on Trump, simply anything.

 

And no, just because you think I'm right-wing doesn't make me right-wing (or conservative, for what it's worth).

I'm pragmatic in my views and vote for both sides whenever I can - which is very often. Politics to me is getting past partisan hackery, in a democracy it takes people from the entire political range (sauf the extremes) to make politics work.

If you think calling pragmatists, liberals or libertarians conservative now just because they are to your right in the political spectrum, you are part of the problem.

 

I don't like Trump, I'm amused by the Democrats and the US media with regards to the great lengths they go to divert from actual tangible politics, avoiding discussing the real issues at hand.

 

Thank you. You have exposed yourself to be quite the intolerant type more than anything - at least when it comes to Trump.

Ah yes, the old "you don't like this objectively shoddy person, how intolerant of you" angle.  Reminds me of our fun chats about poor, misunderstood Tommy.

 

Your dislike of the dems and media diverting from politics only proves how ideologically right wing you are. Heard of a little thing called Fox News?  The birther movement? Bloody pizzagate.  But do go on about how it's left wingers and the lib msm doing all the bad things like a true pragmatist.

[MC Prussian]

1 hour ago, Carl the Llama said:

Ah yes, the old "you don't like this objectively shoddy person, how intolerant of you" angle.  Reminds me of our fun chats about poor, misunderstood Tommy.

 

Your dislike of the dems and media diverting from politics only proves how ideologically right wing you are. Heard of a little thing called Fox News?  The birther movement? Bloody pizzagate.  But do go on about how it's left wingers and the lib msm doing all the bad things like a true pragmatist.

That's the thing - you love attacking the person, the messenger. Attack the message, I say. If you can't, you've failed.

You're also handing out false information (see the Trump video above) in order to cement your viewpoint and further mock people.

How's that helping anybody? It's just a waste of time, really.

 

When the persona Trump becomes more important than the politician, you know things are going in a dangerously superficial direction. It's a fantastic deflection tactic by the media and the Democrats. Why do people still buy into it?

Just the fact that on here, he's more mocked for his appearance and his mannerisms than for what policies he's implementing says it all.

 

I think there can and should be nuance. Just because I sympathize with some of what TR had to go through (media scrutiny, questionable reporting, travel bans, questions surrounding the severity of his sentences, the Mike Stuchbery story, the milkshakes), doesn't mean I am a TR sympathizer on the whole. You can still be critical of his or most of his points of view, whilst trying to defend his right to free speech and finding his treatment somewhat unfair.

I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt that he has nothing to do with the EDL any longer. I'm open to information that changes my mind about him and the severity of his actions.

 

When I'm critical of the Democrats, I do so because I think they are a shambles at present. I would love them to be stronger and more coherent, but they aren't. They are making no sense to me right now. Their focus at the moment is on virtue-signaling rather than policy-making. And Trump, Trump, Trump.

 

Besides, criticizing the Democrats doesn't make me a conservative by default. First of all, the Democrats aren't a left-wing party, not in the European sense. They are left of the Republicans, but still rather conservative on the whole, just more progressive and woke, in some areas more than in others.

The Democrats are also facing subversive tactics by socialists (AOC's whole campaign is very leftist) and the Democratic Socialists of America - these are forces that are on the Left, and also deserve criticism. But that's another matter entirely.

And again, as long as there is no other viable option, no third big political party in the US, I will continue to criticize the Democrats as well as the Republicans where it is deserved.

They are both playing a part in a political system that cannot call itself a true democracy. A two-party system to me does not equal democracy.

 

Fox News? Yeah, some good (Tucker Carlson, Greg Gutfeld), mostly bad. Do I agree with them? Partially. Do I think they're bad? In some ways, yes. Do I think they have a right to exist? Absolutely. Liberal media outscores conservative outlets in the US by about 5 to 1.

 

Is the Birther movement still a thing? In the end, we're talking fringe politics here, so why would I care?

 

As for Pizzagate, that was a ludicrous conspiracy theory movement. What the affair showed was the viciousness and dumbing-down effect of Twitter and how gullible people can be.

What Michael Flynn did was plain stupid and he was deservedly let go, and other culprits have received their deserved sentences also.

Again, how is this important in the grand scheme of things, today?

 

Politics isn't just about black or white, virtue or vice, good or bad. There's lots of gray in between. The divisive lingo and media reporting in our modern day and age doesn't help the situation at all.

Edited 15 October 2019 by MC Prussian

[MC Prussian]

Anne Sacoolas apologizes:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7573341/Diplomats-wife-Anne-Sacoolas-breaks-silence-fireball-crash-killed-Brit-Harry-Dunn.html

 

And now for justice.

[Guest MattP]

4 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

Trump tied it to Trump by using the video. Unbelievable gymnastics Jeff. 

When did Trump use the video?