Brexit!

[yorkie1999]

14 hours ago, Donk said:

The practical terms are whoever votes conservative are more than happy to be led by a careerist serial liar who misled the queen, just so they can "win" brexit which they cant describe anyway because it could be any form of brexit. We still dont know.

 

The 2nd referendum is whats needed where all confirmed plans are on the table and then one obtains a majority.

 

Elections are fought on more than one issue. A 2nd referendum wouldnt be.

 

Said it a million times. Bored of saying it. Youre scared of the 2nd referendum, youd lose it, youre clinging on to an out of date mandate based on outright untruths, willful ignorance and empty rhetoric and youre happy to put your trust in a liar to "deliver" something to you with no benefits.

 

 

Knowing how British people react to being told they're wrong, and given a chance to vote on a 2nd referendum, i think that even more would vote for Brexit. All the facts and figures in the world mean diddly squat where stubbornness is involved. 

[Carl the Llama]

@BlueSi13 What do you think "Schengen" is?  This is the 2nd time recently you've brought it up in a context that doesn't make much sense.  Schengen has nothing to do with the UK, even as an EU member.

Edited 25 September 2019 by Carl the Llama
@ wrong person

[yorkie1999]

11 hours ago, HappyHamza said:

This is clearly not true. 

You say this because you want brexit and think the remain vote will be split more than the leave vote in a GE.

Leave won the referendum but the leave now being offered is not the same as the leave being offered then.  

That might not make a difference to the majority of leavers but it is likely to make a difference to some of the floating voters that chose leave based on the Norway model pushed by farage at the time.

We need a final say. If it's leave then it's leave.  A GE muddies the water. 

It needs to be a clear brexit only decision. 

Alternative vote system.

No deal vs deal vs remain

One gets knocked out first round (probably deal at this point) and we end up with no deal vs remain. 

Surely that would be the absolute fairest mechanism?

 

I thought that's what most people who voted to leave thought in the first place. It's the deal bit that's been contrived by those in power that no-one was aware of, that's clouded the issue.

[yorkie1999]

8 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

@BlueSi13 What do you think "Schengen" is?  This is the 2nd time recently you've brought it up in a context that doesn't make much sense.  Schengen has nothing to do with the UK, even as an EU member.

Cantonese, spicy and fruity.

[Footballwipe]

2 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

What do we do about Schengen?

 

We don't join it, as we're under no obligation to do so

 

The Euro?

 

We don't join it, as we're under no obligation to do so.

 

Further transferring of power to Brussels?

 

Like what? Which powers? Where's the evidence this will happen?

 

An EU Army?

 

Again, some evidence that this is definitely going to go ahead rather than pure whataboutery based on, presumably, one or two comments from a *tiny proportion* of people involved in the EU would be useful in allowing people to make an informed decision.

 

In the meantime EU = status quo, which looks pretty good to me compared to whatever we actually end up doing by leaving. So I'll go for that, ta.  The EU is by no means a perfect organisation, but this process has taught me the benefits of being part of it vastly outweigh the negatives.

A bingo card of Brexiteer scare stories rammed down their throat. At least the entire population of Turkey moving into your street when they inevitably join the EU seems to have been dropped, which is nice.

[Saxondale]

17 hours ago, BlueSi13 said:

Strong rumours that Labour will also push for EU citizens to be allowed to vote in a 2nd referendum to remove any threat of us even voting for BRINO or BRemain.  

 

If we don't come out on the 31st we are going to a very VERY dark place.

SPOILER: We won't be leaving on Oct 31st.

 

Dry your eyes mate.

[Saxondale]

21 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

If we left the EU, are we free to negotiate trade deals with Germany etc?

No.

[Saxondale]

14 hours ago, Heathrow fox said:

Stupid idea.If remain won with a 4 million majority, it would be blamed squarely on “them foreigners”With some justification.If anything is going to make things worse it’s that.

They should have been allowed the vote in the first place. The 2016 referendum was beyond disgraceful. 

[Guest Fktf]

On 24/09/2019 at 13:00, Jon the Hat said:

Completely different vote on a completely different membership to a completely different organisation which happened to contain some of the same countries.  Yeah.

Could argue a similar thing now, no? I didn't really care too much about the outcome of referendum - neither side campaigned with sensible arguments, and I had no way of making an informed decision. It's only in the years since, when we've had some sort of debate about the pros and cons of staying or leaving, that my opinion formed.

[yorkie1999]

New Zealand are having a referendum next year on whether or not cannabis is to be made legal. I bet they don't have any of this deal/no deal sh*t.

[Merging Cultures]

After all this time. Who actually cares? Just sh!t or get off the pot.

[Jon the Hat]

56 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

New Zealand are having a referendum next year on whether or not cannabis is to be made legal. I bet they don't have any of this deal/no deal sh*t.

When Yes wins expect a decade of debate about whether they meant like medicinal, recreational, skunk etc.  Legal challenges, and a new referedum demanded when someone comes out with a new study linking it with increases incidence of mental illness.

[Jon the Hat]

2 hours ago, Footballwipe said:

A bingo card of Brexiteer scare stories rammed down their throat. At least the entire population of Turkey moving into your street when they inevitably join the EU seems to have been dropped, which is nice.

All things required of new members of the EU.  So you know, all things which the EU thinks are good things and we don't.  Nothing like staying in the club but not playing any of the games

[Jon the Hat]

Seeing as the next GE should be about more than Brexit, has anyone been paying attention to the batshit crazy bullshit the Labour party wants to do if it wins?  

 

Housing:  Give private tenants a discounted right to buy (steal) the properties they rent.  Not the slightest realisation this would remove all private rental properties from the market overnight.

Jobs!  4 day week for the same pay! No plan for how this is paid for. / £10 minimum wage for everyone!  - no more jobs for teenagers.

Education:  Abolish (steal) private schools!  No plan for what do with 600,000 pupils.  Abolish Ofsted!  Sod all detail on the replacement

Pharmaceuticals:  Compulsory generic licensing for all drugs to a state owned producer! - No more pharmaceutical development in the UK!

 

Oh and lets not forget the Shadow Chancellor doesn't want to live in Number 11 due to long working hours, so instead will give a homeless family the apartment to live in!  I'm sure the security services will love the idea.

[WigstonWanderer]

3 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Seeing as the next GE should be about more than Brexit, has anyone been paying attention to the batshit crazy bullshit the Labour party wants to do if it wins?  

 

Housing:  Give private tenants a discounted right to buy (steal) the properties they rent.  Not the slightest realisation this would remove all private rental properties from the market overnight.

Jobs!  4 day week for the same pay! No plan for how this is paid for. / £10 minimum wage for everyone!  - no more jobs for teenagers.

Education:  Abolish (steal) private schools!  No plan for what do with 600,000 pupils.  Abolish Ofsted!  Sod all detail on the replacement

Pharmaceuticals:  Compulsory generic licensing for all drugs to a state owned producer! - No more pharmaceutical development in the UK!

 

Oh and lets not forget the Shadow Chancellor doesn't want to live in Number 11 due to long working hours, so instead will give a homeless family the apartment to live in!  I'm sure the security services will love the idea.

You make a very good case for why the whole Brexit issue should not be tangled up in all the issues decided by a general election. Brexit should be decided on its own by a new referendum based on a choice of actual deliverable alternatives. In my view these should be whatever deal is available (currently May’s, but could be something else if pre-negotiated), no deal, and remain.

 

Once this is out of the way, then follow up with a general election.

[Jon the Hat]

19 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

You make a very good case for why the whole Brexit issue should not be tangled up in all the issues decided by a general election. Brexit should be decided on its own by a new referendum based on a choice of actual deliverable alternatives. In my view these should be whatever deal is available (currently May’s, but could be something else if pre-negotiated), no deal, and remain.

 

Once this is out of the way, then follow up with a general election.

I make a good case for never ever voting Labour under any circumstances.  If you worry about no deal you should be terrified of The prospect.

[bovril]

44 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

When Yes wins expect a decade of debate about whether they meant like medicinal, recreational, skunk etc.  Legal challenges, and a new referedum demanded when someone comes out with a new study linking it with increases incidence of mental illness.

I trust New Zealand to clearly define what a Yes vote would mean and have a grown up debate about it. 

[oxford blue]

54 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

You make a very good case for why the whole Brexit issue should not be tangled up in all the issues decided by a general election. Brexit should be decided on its own by a new referendum based on a choice of actual deliverable alternatives. In my view these should be whatever deal is available (currently May’s, but could be something else if pre-negotiated), no deal, and remain.

 

Once this is out of the way, then follow up with a general election.

...and another referendum, so there is best of three. Alternatively, a referendum without remain - after all it is only the MP's that have failed to deliver the 'once in a lifetime' referendum on the EU. (And the ERG group are just as culpable as the pro-remainers.) It is a pity very few MP's have been willing to seek a compromise.

[Swiss_tony]

2 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Seeing as the next GE should be about more than Brexit, has anyone been paying attention to the batshit crazy bullshit the Labour party wants to do if it wins?  

 

Housing:  Give private tenants a discounted right to buy (steal) the properties they rent.  Not the slightest realisation this would remove all private rental properties from the market overnight.

Jobs!  4 day week for the same pay! No plan for how this is paid for. / £10 minimum wage for everyone!  - no more jobs for teenagers.

Education:  Abolish (steal) private schools!  No plan for what do with 600,000 pupils.  Abolish Ofsted!  Sod all detail on the replacement

Pharmaceuticals:  Compulsory generic licensing for all drugs to a state owned producer! - No more pharmaceutical development in the UK!

 

Oh and lets not forget the Shadow Chancellor doesn't want to live in Number 11 due to long working hours, so instead will give a homeless family the apartment to live in!  I'm sure the security services will love the idea.

Presumably you thought Maggie was batshit crazy  when she sold off council homes and removed them from circulation ....

[LiberalFox]

It's okay to steal public money obviously.

[reynard]

22 hours ago, BlueSi13 said:

It's going to be fascinating but my understanding is that the PM can still prorogue again or he could deny Royal Assent to any future bills.  Coming out that the PM is now looking at alternative methods to get a Queen's speech.  

Of course he could have voted along with many of his other Tory colleagues in favour of the deal on the table and we would have left the EU in March. The government had a majority with the DUP but couldn't persuade all of their own side to back the deal.

He can get a queen's speech but in all likelihood it would be defeated and as that would be the equivalent to a vote of no confidence we would be exactly where we are now. A one line bill forcing an election could be won by a single vote but could be amended both in the House of Commons and in the Lords to include such things as ok we'll give you your election but only if you guarantee a 2nd referendum and to a certain date.

Frankly though any PM, of whatever colour, found by the highest court in the land to have acted unlawfully and to have mislead the queen should resign and if the Tory party itself had any moral fibre about it they should sack him as leader. This issue is far more important than Brexit.

[stripeyfox]

3 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Seeing as the next GE should be about more than Brexit, has anyone been paying attention to the batshit crazy bullshit the Labour party wants to do if it wins?  

 

Housing:  Give private tenants a discounted right to buy (steal) the properties they rent.  Not the slightest realisation this would remove all private rental properties from the market overnight.

Jobs!  4 day week for the same pay! No plan for how this is paid for. / £10 minimum wage for everyone!  - no more jobs for teenagers.

Education:  Abolish (steal) private schools!  No plan for what do with 600,000 pupils.  Abolish Ofsted!  Sod all detail on the replacement

Pharmaceuticals:  Compulsory generic licensing for all drugs to a state owned producer! - No more pharmaceutical development in the UK!

 

Oh and lets not forget the Shadow Chancellor doesn't want to live in Number 11 due to long working hours, so instead will give a homeless family the apartment to live in!  I'm sure the security services will love the idea.

I voted Remain and would do so again, but I would sooner have Boris take us out than Corbyn doing whatever he decides to do any day of the week.

 

[UniFox21]

With the high chance of looking like an idiot, how can he threaten another prorogation of parliament? The initial one was ruled as unlawful, why would the second not be? Or is he treating a no confidence vote as their 'objection' to it all?

 

 

[Lionator]

20 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

With the high chance of looking like an idiot, how can he threaten another prorogation of parliament? The initial one was ruled as unlawful, why would the second not be? Or is he treating a no confidence vote as their 'objection' to it all?

 

 

Because he doesn't care, he knows there are no legal consequences of breaking the law and that by doing this, it only emboldens the millions of deluded sadomasochists who continue to support him and the unattainable leave project.

[Lionator]

It's actually come to this. What the feck are we doing?