Would old great teams compete today?

[Stadt]

2 hours ago, MrsJohnMurphy said:

The human ape hasn't evolved into to some kind of super being in the last 30,40,50 years so the likes of Pele, Maradona, Matthews, Best, Cruyff etc would still be up there at the top of the game today

 

Maradona in particular with todays training, diet, tactics would absolutely smash it today

Do you think he'd have the temperament to look after himself though? He wouldn't have the career he had because he'd have a heart attack if he played today. The bloke was on bugle in his playing days ffs

[Finnaldo]

2 hours ago, Stadt said:

Do you think he'd have the temperament to look after himself though? He wouldn't have the career he had because he'd have a heart attack if he played today. The bloke was on bugle in his playing days ffs

This is it really. It’s all well and good saying if you have said player x, y and z from the modern game they’d be a monster.

 

The thing is, at that point they’re not really THAT player any more, are they?

 

If you time travelled and gave everyone in the 50s the latest sporting facilities, tactics and professional diets and conditioning, who says you wouldn’t find Pele never being a world class player, but some random lad who never made it cos whilst he had a fantastic footballing brain he never had the physical wherewithal to become a top player. You put Messi in the 50s he’d probably be a nobody because he’s a scrawny little fvcker without the modern means to become a super athlete. Vardy is exactly the same.

 

Today’s players are undoubtedly superior, they’d murder any player of yesteryear. Every generation there’s new play styles and new breakthroughs in sport science and conditioning. 
 

The more you muddy the water by adding caveats like giving Maradona modern day conditioning, the further you get from the reality: objectively footballers have massively improved from even 15 or 10 years ago, yet alone half a century. They just wouldn’t compete and you couldn’t expect them to.
 

The real question is, as it’s been discussed, do you like the technical, cleaner modern game or the older, rougher game with more ‘character’? Because that’s what it comes down to.

[Guest Bilo]

The idea that the game was somehow tougher and harder in the 70s is flawed too. What it was was clumsier and rougher because the technical ability wasn't the same. 

 

If you put Ronaldo up against Ron Harris and Norman Hunter, it wouldn't be the bloodbath some would claim. Firstly, pretty much every 70s defender would have no chance of getting near enough to kick him. The man's an athlete who moves at a similar speed to a 70s Olympic sprinter. Even a fairly average Premier League player would look like Usain Bolt compared to an old-fashioned English centre-back of the era.

 

Secondly, have you seen Ronaldo? He is an absolute unit. He'd giggle off pretty much every hack and kick with ease given he's kicked every week. Vardy would be similar, despite his deceptively wirey frame. 

[Guest Bilo]

And yeah, the idea that Messi wouldn't hack it outside Spain is ludicrous. 

 

He'd score 30-40 a season regularly, just as he does in Spain. He's disgustingly quick, deceptively strong, consistent to the point of being robotic and a lethal finisher. The sole reason he's never left Barcelona is the fact that no club on the planet would tempt him away.

[spacemunky]

The 1894 Notts team that won the FA Cup probably wouldn't beat the kids I've seen playing at the park(pre Covid).

[fuchsntf]

On 27/04/2020 at 00:33, Finnaldo said:

This is it really. It’s all well and good saying if you have said player x, y and z from the modern game they’d be a monster.

 

The thing is, at that point they’re not really THAT player any more, are they?

 

If you time travelled and gave everyone in the 50s the latest sporting facilities, tactics and professional diets and conditioning, who says you wouldn’t find Pele never being a world class player, but some random lad who never made it cos whilst he had a fantastic footballing brain he never had the physical wherewithal to become a top player. You put Messi in the 50s he’d probably be a nobody because he’s a scrawny little fvcker without the modern means to become a super athlete. Vardy is exactly the same.

 

Today’s players are undoubtedly superior, they’d murder any player of yesteryear. Every generation there’s new play styles and new breakthroughs in sport science and conditioning. 
 

The more you muddy the water by adding caveats like giving Maradona modern day conditioning, the further you get from the reality: objectively footballers have massively improved from even 15 or 10 years ago, yet alone half a century. They just wouldn’t compete and you couldn’t expect them to.
 

The real question is, as it’s been discussed, do you like the technical, cleaner modern game or the older, rougher game with more ‘character’? Because that’s what it comes down to.

What about if you brought the players from the 20s,50s,60s ,into todays world,gave them the same Development and Training access.I reckon they would Cotton

On quickly....The Maradonnas,Gazzas,G.Bests of Any world,would be dipsticksticks,with Football brains in any past or future world,

plus the Gentlemen or Top Profi- characters,will be the same,no matter what period they come from...

[Koke]

On 23/04/2020 at 13:27, Poznan34 said:

It's an interesting point...this (04/05) looks like Sunday League compared to the lovely tika taka Brendan serves up every week

 

 

 

Norwich would have won the league back then.

[ScouseFox]

just watched a bit of the 1970 world cup final, the only time anyone moved quicker than walking pace was when they were celebrating a goal 

[Izzy]

3 hours ago, ScouseFox said:

just watched a bit of the 1970 world cup final, the only time anyone moved quicker than walking pace was when they were celebrating a goal 

It was about 120 degrees hot and at altitude tbf

[Fox92]

35 minutes ago, Izzy said:

It was about 120 degrees hot and at altitude tbf

I saw an interview with Souness other day talking about 82 World Cup. He said when he looked at his team mates they were already sweating and looked knackered, then he looked at Brazil and there wasn't any sweat on them  

[Izzy]

20 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

I saw an interview with Souness other day talking about 82 World Cup. He said when he looked at his team mates they were already sweating and looked knackered, then he looked at Brazil and there wasn't any sweat on them  

Brazil let the ball do the work 

 

I remember Lineker said he lost about a stone in weight vs Cameroon in Italia 90. I know we expect players to run around like idiots and graft but it must be difficult in that sort of heat..

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Anyone earlier than 20 years or so prior to the current crop would be made to look silly imo. Look back at the O'Neil era team, they would happily admit they weren't anywhere near the level of athlete that the players are today. 

[Guest Bilo]

On 04/05/2020 at 22:45, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Anyone earlier than 20 years or so prior to the current crop would be made to look silly imo. Look back at the O'Neil era team, they would happily admit they weren't anywhere near the level of athlete that the players are today. 

What's struck me with the flashback games the club's been putting on YouTube is how much the standard of the game has improved even within the memories of fans in their late twenties. 

 

The football of the O'Neill era and the pace at which it was played was good enough for regular top 10 PL finishes twenty years ago, but that side would have been absolutely annihilated by the Championship winning side of 13/14, just because of the improvement in quality and faster pace. 

[Guest MattP]

Always find these arguments weird, in boxing, cricket etc they are great as the fundamentals of the game haven't changed much except fitness/diet but in football so much more has changed not just with that but also the pitch, the balls, the conditions, the rules etc so it's a pointless argument. 

 

Would Maradona be among the best in the world now? Yes as he would have grown up in it.

 

Would Messi be great in the awful pitches and with the heavy ball in the 40's? Yes as he would have would have grown up in it.

 

The debate doesn't work with football as it's almost a different sport from the game it was.

[Guest Bilo]

I think the more interesting question is the extent to which the game has changed even within a short space of time. If we take O'Neill's 2000 League Cup winning side, they'd be miles off the pace not just now but five or more years ago.

 

Never mind our side under Rodgers or our Premier League winning side, they'd probably get rinsed by our Championship winning team. 

 

Mahrez vs Sinclair? 

Vardy and Nugent vs Elliott and Taggart?

The pace of the 2014 side would rip them to pieces.

The trickery of Knockaert would put Savage on his backside as well, even without the pace.

 

Midfield would be more competitive as you'd fancy Izzet and Lennon to hold their own against James and Drinkwater. That said, Drinkwater was a monster on form and could have bossed it if he fancied it.

 

The 2014 defence against the 2000 front line would be Heskey and Cottee vs Moore and Morgan, which could be productive for the 2000 squad. 

 

Overall though, you'd go for a win for the 2014 side. Tielemans, Ndidi, Maddison et al would destroy both. The improvement in quality over the past 20 years has probably been more marked than at any time in football. 

 

 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Well, judging by the standard of the 1979 cup final currently on the TV, absolutely not. This is current non league at best

[davieG]

From the early 80s football tactics changed due to the influence of people like Charles Hughes who was a big advocate of direct football.

 

Wiki - Hughes would later become the Director of Coaching for The Football Association and publish his book, The Winning Formula, which would be the basis of how English football would be played and coached for several decades.

Tactics  - Hughes presented his ideas in the magazine Match Analysis and concluded most goals were scored from three passes or fewer, therefore it was important to get the ball quickly forward as soon as possible.

 

Football in England put aside the importance of skill over strength and directness so we ended up with teams like Wimbledon becoming very successful. It's only in the last decade or so that this has turned around and I liken the current period more in tune with what i first used to watch in the 60s with players like Best, Charlton even our own Davie Gibson, Chelsea's Charlie Cooke to name but a few. Of course they still didn't have the fitness or facilities of today but I'd wager these players would easily stand alongside today's better players.

The big difference in terms of skill is that now the top teams have these skills in most positions.

[Nalis]

Watching England v Scotland in Euro 96 on BBC1 now. Was obviously entertaining at the time but the quality is piss poor compared to now.

[lildave3]

On 06/06/2020 at 14:04, Nalis said:

Watching England v Scotland in Euro 96 on BBC1 now. Was obviously entertaining at the time but the quality is piss poor compared to now.

You think that’s bad...check out this ‘66 game now. 

[ealingfox]

1 hour ago, lildave3 said:

You think that’s bad...check out this ‘66 game now. 

 

Really? I've watched both and think the '66 team would give the '96 team a game tbh.