Coronavirus Thread

[st albans fox]

29 minutes ago, The Syrup said:

I guess if it didn't filter out weaker signals or time in proximity then someone walking past your house, or in another car in traffic  could in theory trigger a warning to self isolate for no good reason 

Afaik, You have to be within a couple metres for fifteen minutes exposure to trigger an alert 

[FoxesDeb]

2 hours ago, Nod.E said:

It's difficult, though. You seem to be implying everything coming from 'official' sources (i.e. government) is always true, which of course is not always the case.

 

If only it were that simple.

 

In fact this is why many people choose to believe whatever they read on social media. Some of it will be true, most of it probably not.

Well, I mean, I didn't reference the Government at all did I? And I'm pretty certain I have never said that I think everything coming from official sources is always true, so I'm not sure how I've implied that. If you mean though that I will take more notice of the WHO, our chief medical officer, and bodies like the CDC rather than Bob on Facebook because he heard it from Dave down the pub who'd read it on Twitter, then yes, I am certainly guilty. If the sources I use to refute the nonsense are seen as 'official', then yes again, I am also guilty of that.

 

I take exception to people lapping up complete and utter nonsense, taking at as fact without doing any research, and then posting it as fact rather than opinion. It's particularly frustrating when many people here take the time to do the research for these people to refute the bullshit they are posting, only for them to disappear without reply or acknowledgement, and then reappear a while later to post the exact same bullshit which has already been categorically refuted. It's dangerous to post lies when the wellbeing of the population is at risk, particularly when so many people seem to blindly believe it, and I include the economical impact in that too. We've had numerous examples here recently where 'facts' people are posting are proven to be complete and utter b0llocks, yet still plenty of people agree with them. 

 

It's got to the point where I'm pretty sure some of the posters must be on the wind up, such is the hilarity of some of their posts, time after time after time...

 

Nice previous post btw, I've only just spotted it. And for what it's worth no, I've never had you in the conspiracy theory camp. The heartless bastard camp, maybe, but not that one 

Edited 11 October 2020 by FoxesDeb
Added acknowledgement

[Guest Fktf]

47 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

I'll admit I know very little about the ongoing situation. It's more a case of observing broader truths (that death numbers aren't that large in the scheme of things and this in my view not justifying wholesale restrictions), and unfortunately getting dragged into particular arguments around case numbers, false positives, dodgy death attribution etc 

Wait, do people against restrictions think that those advocating for restrictions are doing so on the basis death rate of this thing?

 

 

[Stivo]

27 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

It doesn’t really .......does anyone know anyone who has  been notified by the app that they may need to isolate ?   I have someone at work whose daughter and her boyfriend were positive but couldn’t enter a code into the app and also my daughters best friend couldn’t enter her code onto the app ...... not sure what the point of it is ......but it’s very shiny ....

How recently was that?  There was an initial flaw that test results from some centres couldn’t be entered but I thought that had all been resolved.

[UniFox21]

1 hour ago, The Syrup said:

I had this happen on friday, google notification but app not saying anything. After a bit of googling it seems that as bluetooth has a range greater than 2 metres, the app / google will ignore contacts with other phones dependent on distance, signal strength, time in proximity. You still get a notification on the phone but the app wont tell you to take action.

Ah that makes sense, I've had a few of these pop up but never had any definitive action to take. Isn't particularly helpful. Assumed given the lack of info then nothing major was to be done and was more a warning 

[Leicester_Loyal]

The 'worst case scenario' was ridiculous and wildly inaccurate. By closing pubs an hour or two earlier and halting gatherings of more than 6 they've prevented that scenario? No chance. It was created purely to scare people into obeying, which is all well and good, but the opposite side is that people are losing the plot over it. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I've got friends who are on depression tablets over all of this, one was meant to meet us all socially for the first time in over 7 months a couple of weeks ago, but those graphs ensured they stayed away because 'cases are doubling'.

[joachim1965]

4 hours ago, FoxesDeb said:

It amazes me that people seem so willing to blindly swallow the latest nonsense being spouted on Facebook/Twitter/YouTube, and then just accept it as fact without actually doing any checking that it is even remotely close to being factual. The worrying thing is that so many people actually seem to believe the bullshit, the funniest thing though is when it's followed by coming on here and asking why people believe what they are told, with absolutely no irony whatsoever  

 

Just in the last 24 hours we've had claims that:

 

There's been more suicides - no, there haven't

Millions have been made redundant - not in the UK they haven't

Face masks don't work - yes they do

Mental health is suffering - I'd suggest getting off the absolute cesspools of misinformation that are FB and Twitter then, that might help...

wow.

[joachim1965]

4 hours ago, FoxesDeb said:

 

 

Just in the last 24 hours we've had claims that:

 

There's been more suicides - no, there haven't

Millions have been made redundant - not in the UK they haven't

Face masks don't work - yes they do

Mental health is suffering - I'd suggest getting off the absolute cesspools of misinformation that are FB and Twitter then, that might help...

1. I would imagine the suicide rates are up, possibly not by 200% as has been claimed but up all the same.

2.That is coming without a shadow of doubt. 

3.To claim people only have mental health issues due to Facebook and twitter is an absolute insult to anyone with mental health issues and is a disgraceful comment.

[SpacedX]

1 minute ago, joachim1965 said:

1. I would imagine the suicide rates are up, possibly not by 200% as has been claimed but up all the same.

2.That is coming without a shadow of doubt. 

3.To claim people only have mental health issues due to Facebook and twitter is an absolute insult to anyone with mental health issues and is a disgraceful comment.

1/ You would imagine. Ok then.

2/ But that wasn't the original claim.

3/ Here, this is for you, congratulations...

 

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, Stivo said:

How recently was that?  There was an initial flaw that test results from some centres couldn’t be entered but I thought that had all been resolved.

The guy at work was two weeks ago and my daughters friend got here positive result on Thursday 

[Countryfox]

18 minutes ago, joachim1965 said:

wow.

 

3 minutes ago, joachim1965 said:

1. I would imagine the suicide rates are up, possibly not by 200% as has been claimed but up all the same.

2.That is coming without a shadow of doubt. 

3.To claim people only have mental health issues due to Facebook and twitter is an absolute insult to anyone with mental health issues and is a disgraceful comment.

I think you are just twisting what she is saying for your own purposes ...  

[StanSP]

4 hours ago, FoxesDeb said:

It amazes me that people seem so willing to blindly swallow the latest nonsense being spouted on Facebook/Twitter/YouTube, and then just accept it as fact without actually doing any checking that it is even remotely close to being factual. The worrying thing is that so many people actually seem to believe the bullshit, the funniest thing though is when it's followed by coming on here and asking why people believe what they are told, with absolutely no irony whatsoever  

 

Just in the last 24 hours we've had claims that:

 

There's been more suicides - no, there haven't

Millions have been made redundant - not in the UK they haven't

Face masks don't work - yes they do

Mental health is suffering - I'd suggest getting off the absolute cesspools of misinformation that are FB and Twitter then, that might help...

Agree with most of it but mental health suffering as a result of not being able to socialise normally and adapt so wildly because of the restrictions thanks to the virus still being around can not and should not be underestimated. While FB & Twitter and social media generally is shite, it can't account wholly for MH suffering. You don't have to have been on FB/Twitter to have suffered or MH or have it worsened due to lockdown/COVID. 

[joachim1965]

1 minute ago, Countryfox said:

 

I think you are just twisting what she is saying for your own purposes ...  

Show me some information apart from factchecker that proves suicide rates are not up.

The mental health comment really does deserve to be questioned.

[joachim1965]

6 minutes ago, Line-X said:

1/ You would imagine. Ok then.

2/ But that wasn't the original claim.

3/ Here, this is for you, congratulations...

 

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

cheers 👍👍👊👊

[FoxesDeb]

10 minutes ago, joachim1965 said:

1. I would imagine the suicide rates are up, possibly not by 200% as has been claimed but up all the same.

2.That is coming without a shadow of doubt. 

3.To claim people only have mental health issues due to Facebook and twitter is an absolute insult to anyone with mental health issues and is a disgraceful comment.

Please can you show me where I said 'people only have mental health issues due to Facebook and Twitter'? Clearly you have never read any of my posts on the Depression thread...

[SpacedX]

3 minutes ago, joachim1965 said:

Show me some information apart from factchecker that proves suicide rates are not up.

Precisely what I was talking about in a previous post. The burden of proof is incumbent upon those making a claim. The onus does not lie with another party to search for an absent or a negative. I suggest you familiarise yourself with the concept of 'Russell's Teapot'.

 

It tragically may very well be the case that suicide rates have increased or will increase, but even in such a depressing scenario, one would need to demonstrate causality. However, to simply say assert that you 'imagine' this to be the case in the absence of data is nothing more than supposition and therefore completely unsubstantiated. 

[Izzy]

2 minutes ago, Line-X said:

Precisely what I was talking about in a previous post. The burden of proof is incumbent upon those making a claim. The onus does not lie with another party to search for an absent or a negative. I suggest you familiarise yourself with the concept of 'Russell's Teapot'.

 

It tragically may very well be the case that suicide rates have increased or will increase, but even in such a depressing scenario, one would need to demonstrate causality. However, to simply say assert that you 'imagine' this to be the case in the absence of data is nothing more than supposition and therefore completely unsubstantiated. 

Yes, your honour 

[Stivo]

11 minutes ago, joachim1965 said:

Show me some information apart from factchecker that proves suicide rates are not up.

The mental health comment really does deserve to be questioned.

The ons data is here

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/quarterlysuicidedeathregistrationsinengland/2001to2019registrationsandquarter1jantomartoquarter2aprtojune2020provisionaldata

• Provisional data show there were 10.3 suicide deaths per 100,000 people in Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2020 in England, equivalent to 1,262 registered deaths; in Quarter 2 (Apr to June) 2020 there were 6.9 suicide deaths per 100,000 people, equivalent to 845 registered deaths.

• The lower number of deaths registered caused by suicide in Quarter 2 of 2020 should be interpreted with caution; this likely reflects delays to inquests because of the impact of the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic on the coroner's service.

• The rate observed in Quarter 1 of 2020 for males is consistent with those observed in previous years, where the rate has seen an upward trend; the rate for females in Quarter 1 of 2020 continues to be like those seen in recent years.

 

[Guest Fktf]

Find it interesting mental health is only really discussed in terms of the restrictions making it worse. Those on the at risk list, or with family members on that list living with them, will probably be getting hugely worried at the current trend. 

[FoxesDeb]

20 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Agree with most of it but mental health suffering as a result of not being able to socialise normally and adapt so wildly because of the restrictions thanks to the virus still being around can not and should not be underestimated. While FB & Twitter and social media generally is shite, it can't account wholly for MH suffering. You don't have to have been on FB/Twitter to have suffered or MH or have it worsened due to lockdown/COVID. 

I didn't say it 'wholly accounted for MH suffering'...

[SpacedX]

6 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Yes, your honour 

[FoxesDeb]

32 minutes ago, joachim1965 said:

Show me some information apart from factchecker that proves suicide rates are not up.

The mental health comment really does deserve to be questioned.

I already did, it is about 3 pages back. You must have missed it:

 

https://fullfact.org/health/post-comparing-deaths-august-guess/

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

I don't need to go find data to show that suicides are up. Of course they are, just common sense that a global pandemic and lockdown would cause a huge spike in mental health issues, which would cause a rise in suicides. Don't need a doctorate to work that one out. 

[Guest Harrydc]

I feel as though I have been attacked for some of my views which I have posted over the last couple of days. A lot of them was posted from frustration, but not for no reason - and I shall not apologise for them what so ever. 

 

I don't know how anyone can deny mental health will suffer drastically with further lockdowns. Human beings are a social species, and human contact is a necessity to function normally, and live a happy and prosperous life. We can look at a study by the Health Foundation, who delved in to the effects lockdowns were having on peoples mental state in the United Kingdom. 

 

"More than two-thirds of adults in the UK (69%) report feeling somewhat or very worried about the effect COVID-19 is having on their life. The most common issues affecting wellbeing are worry about the future (63%), feeling stressed or anxious (56%) and feeling bored (49%)."

 

We can also look at the UCL COVID-19 study, in which they monitored the mental health symptoms of 90,000 people. They came to the conclusion that "levels of anxiety and depression fell in early June as lockdown measures began to lift". 

 

Lack of social interaction, job losses and financial losses and a lack of access to mental health services will inevitably increase mental health problems. I can say from personal experience this whole saga has drastically increased my anxiety and depression in which I have openly discussed in other threads. I also know of many people who's mental health has further deteriorated due to lockdowns. So, there I have provided some statistics, facts, figures for those who claim I am talking out of my arse. Thank you, and goodnight. 

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

2 minutes ago, Harrydc said:

I feel as though I have been attacked for some of my views which I have posted over the last couple of days. A lot of them was posted from frustration, but not for no reason - and I shall not apologise for them what so ever. 

 

I don't know how anyone can deny mental health will suffer drastically with further lockdowns. Human beings are a social species, and human contact is a necessity to function normally, and live a happy and prosperous life. We can look at a study by the Health Foundation, who delved in to the effects lockdowns were having on peoples mental state in the United Kingdom. 

 

"More than two-thirds of adults in the UK (69%) report feeling somewhat or very worried about the effect COVID-19 is having on their life. The most common issues affecting wellbeing are worry about the future (63%), feeling stressed or anxious (56%) and feeling bored (49%)."

 

We can also look at the UCL COVID-19 study, in which they monitored the mental health symptoms of 90,000 people. They came to the conclusion that "levels of anxiety and depression fell in early June as lockdown measures began to lift". 

 

Lack of social interaction, job losses and financial losses and a lack of access to mental health services will inevitably increase mental health problems. I can say from personal experience this whole saga has drastically increased my anxiety and depression in which I have openly discussed in other threads. I also know of many people who's mental health has further deteriorated due to lockdowns. So, there I have provided some statistics, facts, figures for those who claim I am talking out of my arse. Thank you, and goodnight. 

This. I know my own mental health, which has often been troublesome for me, has been so up and down due to the lockdown. I know so many people who, to the best of my knowledge, have never suffered mental health issues who have been all over the place since this pandemic came about. You don't need stats and figures to show a very prevelant problem which is sweeping through the population in front of my very eyes. The 'well give me proof' in this issue, is borderline callous, yes the burden of proof should always be on the person making a claim. But this isn't some unsubstantiated quibble, its the very real mental impact a global pandemic is having on a huge amount of people. If you're someone who's lucky enough to not to have been negatively affected by covid then I'm genuinely pleased for you. Just because you haven't suffered doesn't mean a swathe of people haven't and aren't doing. The real impact is, I fear, a way away as a lot of people will really struggle with further restrictions, never mind the mental implications the first one had. No I don't have proof, I have a sympathetic and empathetic view of things and it's common bloody sense the current situation of the world is going to cause a horrendous and long standing mental health issue that just isn't being taken anywhere near seriously enough by a hell of a lot of people. You can think restrictions are necessary but not be blind to the fact of the issues it will cause.