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How does the NHS COVID app actually work? I was idly dismissing the notifications on my phone and I THINK there might have been one that said I'd been in contact with a case, but naturally the app itself tells me nothing at all. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do if it did actually tell me that?

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Just now, Bellend Sebastian said:

How does the NHS COVID app actually work? I was idly dismissing the notifications on my phone and I THINK there might have been one that said I'd been in contact with a case, but naturally the app itself tells me nothing at all. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do if it did actually tell me that?

I think that probably means imminent death.

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1 minute ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

How does the NHS COVID app actually work? I was idly dismissing the notifications on my phone and I THINK there might have been one that said I'd been in contact with a case, but naturally the app itself tells me nothing at all. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do if it did actually tell me that?

I had this happen on friday, google notification but app not saying anything. After a bit of googling it seems that as bluetooth has a range greater than 2 metres, the app / google will ignore contacts with other phones dependent on distance, signal strength, time in proximity. You still get a notification on the phone but the app wont tell you to take action.

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25 minutes ago, Line-X said:

I dedicate an hour each day to battle with conspiracy believers online. As Tim Berners Lee despairingly observed, the advent of the internet has proved disastrous for objectivity and critical thinking. A search engine will return whatever you wish it to. Add to this, the post truth era and rampant populism we have a disenchantment with science and genuine expertise which are regarded as the preserve of 'elites' and a rejection of education which has ironically eluded these Dunning Kruger afflicted dullards who instead substitute the word of online charlatans in place of actual knowledge. Very simply internet connectivity and social media have afforded a voice for those with very little worthwhile to say that are for that reason insignificant in the real world. This is drowning out rational discourse and genuine insight. Stupidity already has the answer. As Carl Sagan opined, knowing a great deal is not the same as being smart; intelligence is not information alone but also judgement, the manner in which information is coordinated and used.

 

Conspiracy believers are completely emotionally invested in their fraud so unlikely to ever critically question it and knowing nothing the actual subjects that they declare armchair authority over, uncritically lap up and regurgitate baseless claims of Farcebook and twitter about subjects that they are wholly ignorant about. These people are absolutely immune to empirical evidence. It all seems to stem from a massive distrust of evidence based science, authority and MSM. Whilst the online conspiracy theory that they mindlessly parrot is of course unfailingly accurate, honest, truthful, not in the least bit deceptive, manipulative or exploitative is entirely devoid of agenda and has their best interests at heart. Any attempt to explain that although governments and media have and do distort the truth, but does not in turn legitimise any random conspiracy theory of one's arbitrary choice or devising, is greeted by an angry bleating of "sheep" and "shill".

 

I attempt to impress that I am irrelevant - their contention lies not with me but with known science and independently verifiable facts. When asked to substantiate their claims, utterly unable to comprehend that the burden of proof is incumbent upon them, the go to response appears to be...

 

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Do_your_own_research

 

...unfortunately failing to understand that "research"does involve self proclaimed 'expertise' following squandered evenings in front of baseless You Tube videos, cherry picked click-bait confirmation bias, out of context quote mining, self-referencing pseudoscientific junk conspiracy websites and echo-chamber reinforcement. It's rather like cult worship. In my experience these people are alongside religious extremists/fundamentalists, amongst the most closed minded individuals on the internet. Psychopaths such as Mason and Rev. Jim Jones would have had a field day in the internet age. 

 

Post 9-11, online 'trutherism' and conspiracy theory has become big business -  a lucrative production line. Easy to blame junk peddled by clowns such as Icke and Alex Jones, but this is the sort of lazy thinking and critical impairment that has paved the way for genuinely dangerous charlatans such as Andrew Wakefield and the associated appeals to authority culminating in a genuine threat to society. Claims on a football forum that "scientific evidence proves that face masks don't work" may seem trivial but are a product of this damaging narrative and chronic critical impairment. 

 

Good post.

 

I think I've at times indulged in some of this behaviour, choosing at times to read and share what I want to believe. Which I'm ashamed to admit.

 

I'll admit I know very little about the ongoing situation. It's more a case of observing broader truths (that death numbers aren't that large in the scheme of things and this in my view not justifying wholesale restrictions), and unfortunately getting dragged into particular arguments around case numbers, false positives, dodgy death attribution etc etc.

 

I hope I've stopped short of conspiracy theories, though! 

Edited by Nod.E
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Just now, The Syrup said:

I had this happen on friday, google notification but app not saying anything. After a bit of googling it seems that as bluetooth has a range greater than 2 metres, the app / google will ignore contacts with other phones dependent on distance, signal strength, time in proximity. You still get a notification on the phone but the app wont tell you to take action.

Oh, that makes sense, cheers.

 

The Bluetooth on my phone is now so flaky at any one time there's probably only a fifty percent chance of it working anyway

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Just now, Bellend Sebastian said:

Oh, that makes sense, cheers.

 

The Bluetooth on my phone is now so flaky at any one time there's probably only a fifty percent chance of it working anyway

I guess if it didn't filter out weaker signals or time in proximity then someone walking past your house, or in another car in traffic  could in theory trigger a warning to self isolate for no good reason 

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39 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

How does the NHS COVID app actually work? I was idly dismissing the notifications on my phone and I THINK there might have been one that said I'd been in contact with a case, but naturally the app itself tells me nothing at all. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do if it did actually tell me that?

It doesn’t really .......does anyone know anyone who has  been notified by the app that they may need to isolate ?   I have someone at work whose daughter and her boyfriend were positive but couldn’t enter a code into the app and also my daughters best friend couldn’t enter her code onto the app ...... not sure what the point of it is ......but it’s very shiny ....

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29 minutes ago, The Syrup said:

I guess if it didn't filter out weaker signals or time in proximity then someone walking past your house, or in another car in traffic  could in theory trigger a warning to self isolate for no good reason 

Afaik, You have to be within a couple metres for fifteen minutes exposure to trigger an alert 

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2 hours ago, Nod.E said:

It's difficult, though. You seem to be implying everything coming from 'official' sources (i.e. government) is always true, which of course is not always the case.

 

If only it were that simple.

 

In fact this is why many people choose to believe whatever they read on social media. Some of it will be true, most of it probably not.

Well, I mean, I didn't reference the Government at all did I? And I'm pretty certain I have never said that I think everything coming from official sources is always true, so I'm not sure how I've implied that. If you mean though that I will take more notice of the WHO, our chief medical officer, and bodies like the CDC rather than Bob on Facebook because he heard it from Dave down the pub who'd read it on Twitter, then yes, I am certainly guilty. If the sources I use to refute the nonsense are seen as 'official', then yes again, I am also guilty of that.

 

I take exception to people lapping up complete and utter nonsense, taking at as fact without doing any research, and then posting it as fact rather than opinion. It's particularly frustrating when many people here take the time to do the research for these people to refute the bullshit they are posting, only for them to disappear without reply or acknowledgement, and then reappear a while later to post the exact same bullshit which has already been categorically refuted. It's dangerous to post lies when the wellbeing of the population is at risk, particularly when so many people seem to blindly believe it, and I include the economical impact in that too. We've had numerous examples here recently where 'facts' people are posting are proven to be complete and utter b0llocks, yet still plenty of people agree with them. 

 

It's got to the point where I'm pretty sure some of the posters must be on the wind up, such is the hilarity of some of their posts, time after time after time...

 

Nice previous post btw, I've only just spotted it. And for what it's worth no, I've never had you in the conspiracy theory camp. The heartless bastard camp, maybe, but not that one ;)

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47 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

I'll admit I know very little about the ongoing situation. It's more a case of observing broader truths (that death numbers aren't that large in the scheme of things and this in my view not justifying wholesale restrictions), and unfortunately getting dragged into particular arguments around case numbers, false positives, dodgy death attribution etc 

Wait, do people against restrictions think that those advocating for restrictions are doing so on the basis death rate of this thing?

 

 

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27 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

It doesn’t really .......does anyone know anyone who has  been notified by the app that they may need to isolate ?   I have someone at work whose daughter and her boyfriend were positive but couldn’t enter a code into the app and also my daughters best friend couldn’t enter her code onto the app ...... not sure what the point of it is ......but it’s very shiny ....

How recently was that?  There was an initial flaw that test results from some centres couldn’t be entered but I thought that had all been resolved.

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1 hour ago, The Syrup said:

I had this happen on friday, google notification but app not saying anything. After a bit of googling it seems that as bluetooth has a range greater than 2 metres, the app / google will ignore contacts with other phones dependent on distance, signal strength, time in proximity. You still get a notification on the phone but the app wont tell you to take action.

Ah that makes sense, I've had a few of these pop up but never had any definitive action to take. Isn't particularly helpful. Assumed given the lack of info then nothing major was to be done and was more a warning 

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The 'worst case scenario' was ridiculous and wildly inaccurate. By closing pubs an hour or two earlier and halting gatherings of more than 6 they've prevented that scenario? No chance. It was created purely to scare people into obeying, which is all well and good, but the opposite side is that people are losing the plot over it. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I've got friends who are on depression tablets over all of this, one was meant to meet us all socially for the first time in over 7 months a couple of weeks ago, but those graphs ensured they stayed away because 'cases are doubling'.

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4 hours ago, FoxesDeb said:

It amazes me that people seem so willing to blindly swallow the latest nonsense being spouted on Facebook/Twitter/YouTube, and then just accept it as fact without actually doing any checking that it is even remotely close to being factual. The worrying thing is that so many people actually seem to believe the bullshit, the funniest thing though is when it's followed by coming on here and asking why people believe what they are told, with absolutely no irony whatsoever lol 

 

Just in the last 24 hours we've had claims that:

 

There's been more suicides - no, there haven't

Millions have been made redundant - not in the UK they haven't

Face masks don't work - yes they do

Mental health is suffering - I'd suggest getting off the absolute cesspools of misinformation that are FB and Twitter then, that might help...

wow.

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1 minute ago, joachim1965 said:

1. I would imagine the suicide rates are up, possibly not by 200% as has been claimed but up all the same.

2.That is coming without a shadow of doubt. 

3.To claim people only have mental health issues due to Facebook and twitter is an absolute insult to anyone with mental health issues and is a disgraceful comment.

1/ You would imagine. Ok then.

2/ But that wasn't the original claim.

3/ Here, this is for you, congratulations...

 

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

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18 minutes ago, joachim1965 said:

wow.

 

3 minutes ago, joachim1965 said:

1. I would imagine the suicide rates are up, possibly not by 200% as has been claimed but up all the same.

2.That is coming without a shadow of doubt. 

3.To claim people only have mental health issues due to Facebook and twitter is an absolute insult to anyone with mental health issues and is a disgraceful comment.


I think you are just twisting what she is saying for your own purposes ...  

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4 hours ago, FoxesDeb said:

It amazes me that people seem so willing to blindly swallow the latest nonsense being spouted on Facebook/Twitter/YouTube, and then just accept it as fact without actually doing any checking that it is even remotely close to being factual. The worrying thing is that so many people actually seem to believe the bullshit, the funniest thing though is when it's followed by coming on here and asking why people believe what they are told, with absolutely no irony whatsoever lol 

 

Just in the last 24 hours we've had claims that:

 

There's been more suicides - no, there haven't

Millions have been made redundant - not in the UK they haven't

Face masks don't work - yes they do

Mental health is suffering - I'd suggest getting off the absolute cesspools of misinformation that are FB and Twitter then, that might help...

Agree with most of it but mental health suffering as a result of not being able to socialise normally and adapt so wildly because of the restrictions thanks to the virus still being around can not and should not be underestimated. While FB & Twitter and social media generally is shite, it can't account wholly for MH suffering. You don't have to have been on FB/Twitter to have suffered or MH or have it worsened due to lockdown/COVID. 

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1 minute ago, Countryfox said:

 


I think you are just twisting what she is saying for your own purposes ...  

Show me some information apart from factchecker that proves suicide rates are not up.

The mental health comment really does deserve to be questioned.

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10 minutes ago, joachim1965 said:

1. I would imagine the suicide rates are up, possibly not by 200% as has been claimed but up all the same.

2.That is coming without a shadow of doubt. 

3.To claim people only have mental health issues due to Facebook and twitter is an absolute insult to anyone with mental health issues and is a disgraceful comment.

Please can you show me where I said 'people only have mental health issues due to Facebook and Twitter'? Clearly you have never read any of my posts on the Depression thread...

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3 minutes ago, joachim1965 said:

Show me some information apart from factchecker that proves suicide rates are not up.

Precisely what I was talking about in a previous post. The burden of proof is incumbent upon those making a claim. The onus does not lie with another party to search for an absent or a negative. I suggest you familiarise yourself with the concept of 'Russell's Teapot'.

 

It tragically may very well be the case that suicide rates have increased or will increase, but even in such a depressing scenario, one would need to demonstrate causality. However, to simply say assert that you 'imagine' this to be the case in the absence of data is nothing more than supposition and therefore completely unsubstantiated. 

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