Coronavirus Thread

[Mickyblueeyes]

On 14/11/2020 at 10:41, MonmoreStef said:

A big thing now that wasn’t the case a few months ago is we all know plenty of people who have had this economy killing virus.  I know of at least twenty people personally who’ve tested positive. Forget the scientists, forget the media and forget the clown running the Country. I’m far happier forming my opinion  from first hand experience of cases I know are true. I’m sure there’s people on here who know of hundreds who’ve had it. I’m sure these people will also be making their decisions and forming their opinions on these first hand accounts. 

That’s an assumption. I don’t know anyone near enough to that many people who’ve had it. In fact, if I go on hear say, I could count the amount of cases on one who have had it. Perhaps the people you know have taken a relaxed attitude to the precautions and not taken it seriously. Or perhaps there it’s just the roulette of the disease and how it effects people differently that causes the rise in cases. 

[Mickyblueeyes]

1 hour ago, Benguin said:

Attending and worshiping in a church is a fundamental right, not a lifestyle choice. As Christian’s, we are taught to respect the laws of the land and as such, I think it’s fair to say most Christians have adapted to congregating online for the time being. 
 

Our respect for the law of the land doesn’t necessarily mean we agree or are not within our rights to criticise it. Whilst the general view of measures has been taken on amicably, it is now getting to a point where deep relationships are being broken, an intimate need to praise god in church is being suppressed and sharing the gospel with unbelievers (which we feel

called to do) is challenging. 
 

A Christian has submitted their life and devotion to God and tries not to live by the flesh but through the spirit (with lots of praise and worship) These restrictions then, are now becoming akin to preventing someone from doing not what they want to do but what they need to do. 
 

I therefore believe that this needs to be addressed by the leaders of churches who are charged with guarding their flock rather than by a government. 
 

Church goers are not remotely comparable to pub goers or the like. 

This applies to all religious facilities not just the church. Religious institutes offer people the escape from everyday life and fundamentally plays an important part for many in society. However, it’s basic role is no different (in terms of effect (generally positive)) to that which a gym or a pub or a restaurant outing offers to those who are affiliated to a religion. 
 

Challenging the rules with respect to religious institutions and congregational worship risks the very impact of the second lockdown and further strains the countries resources when it’s the last thing needed. I sympathise with all those who cannot experience their “release” whether that be on a Friday or a Sunday or any other day of the week but needs must. 

[Facecloth]

Can only echo what others have said in response to Benguin. We have all made sacrifices during this pandemic, and we have all had to give up the things in life that we enjoy, that we use as an escape from everyday life. Be it going to football, the gym, browsing round the shops, concerts, theatre, going to the pub, visiting family, going to a mates a brew or a takeaway and a film, weekend breaks with partners, the list is endless and religion is no different to any of these. These are all lifestyle choices we chose to make our life better and more enjoyable if we believe they will serve that purpose, but they are also likely to be places where the virus can spread. 

 

I think fundamentally opening up the economy must come first before large gatherings at stadiums, theatre and religious building are allowed, just because as a whole, society needs the economy to start up again. But in  terms of what all those things above mean to different people, not one should be held up higher than the others. Religion is not on some pedestal above all else.

 

In fact @Benguin it is you who isn't being objective. You are holding your "thing" above everyone else's "thing" claiming it to more important. When I can see my friends and family, when people can visit dying relatives and see them off with a proper funeral, when people are getting proper treatment for their cancer and other illnesses, when companies aren't forced to shut and people aren't losing their jobs, then you can go back to church.

[rachhere]

2 hours ago, Benguin said:

Attending and worshiping in a church is a fundamental right, not a lifestyle choice. As Christian’s, we are taught to respect the laws of the land and as such, I think it’s fair to say most Christians have adapted to congregating online for the time being. 
 

Our respect for the law of the land doesn’t necessarily mean we agree or are not within our rights to criticise it. Whilst the general view of measures has been taken on amicably, it is now getting to a point where deep relationships are being broken, an intimate need to praise god in church is being suppressed and sharing the gospel with unbelievers (which we feel

called to do) is challenging. 
 

A Christian has submitted their life and devotion to God and tries not to live by the flesh but through the spirit (with lots of praise and worship) These restrictions then, are now becoming akin to preventing someone from doing not what they want to do but what they need to do. 
 

I therefore believe that this needs to be addressed by the leaders of churches who are charged with guarding their flock rather than by a government. 
 

Church goers are not remotely comparable to pub goers or the like. 

We've been able to meet as a congregation for several weeks, and we have only stepped back because of the new national lockdown? I just don't get this attitude (not just you, a lot of my friends from church say similar), it's not like we are being picked on and the restrictions are disproportionate to what else is happening in society... the evidence shows that the greatest risk for transmission is when large groups of people are in the same space for extended periods of time. This is a completely sensible measure from the government (unlike others I can mention) and as I said before they have made compromise in letting people go in for prayer and also teams to go in to deliver online streamed services. 

 

 

[Bellend Sebastian]

If my phone is to be believed some new 5G masts have been turned on around Leicester city centre in the last week or so.

 

I wonder if there will be a spike in cases or whether it will make no f****** difference whatsoever

[SpacedX]

 

1 hour ago, Benguin said:

First and foremost, most churches welcome in numerous people who are curious each week. Besides that, through outreach programmes such as food banks, community events, courses such as alpha and good old fashioned street evangelism. 

So singing 'Michael Row the Boat Ashore' under the clock tower? 

 

Not meaning to be facetious, because I do understand that the importance of presence and community worship but you need to explore digital outlets to spread your word, (like everyone else). Also, given that God is omnipresent, that's got to be a better connection than my flakey Virgin broadband? 

 

 

[urban.spaceman]

Hi everyone
Hope everyone is managing to stay safe and sane in these difficult times.

I wasn’t allowed to say anything until today, but it's now okay for me to share that I have volunteered for the Covid-19 vaccine trials. Our local hospital is one of a few that have been selected to undertake these tests. I was a little doubtful at first, but looking at the bigger picture, its  important that we all do our part to beat this virus.
The vaccine is the one that has been developed in Russia. I received my first dose yesterday, and I wanted to let you all know that it’s completely safe, with иo side effects whatsoeveя, and that I feelshκι я чувю себя немного стрно и я думю, что вытл осные уши. чувству себя немго страо.
Urbanski космонавт

[z-layrex]

2 hours ago, Benguin said:

I would never want to be the cause of censorship. 

Ok. The nearest star to our own sun is 4.3 light years away. An insane distance. There are, assuming an average of 100 billion stars per galaxy, about 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars in the universe. We live on a spec in the cosmos. To take part in any sort of organised religion, thinking there is some deity listening/judging, is pure small-minded human ridiculousness to me, and nothing more than people's fear of death and unwillingness to accept the nothingness of eternity.

 

Consequently, what the comparatively small amount of church/mosque/whatever goers 'need' is not in the interest of society as a whole right now. Especially when these unnecessary congregations of people are based on a fantasy.

[Guest Fktf]

We've heard a lot of self interested arguments against restrictions on here, but this is by far my favourite. 'Objectively I believe my reason is more worthy of yours'. Good grief. 

[Innovindil]

1 hour ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

If my phone is to be believed some new 5G masts have been turned on around Leicester city centre in the last week or so.

 

I wonder if there will be a spike in cases or whether it will make no f****** difference whatsoever

 

[Guest Fktf]

1 hour ago, Line-X said:

 

So singing 'Michael Row the Boat Ashore' under the clock tower? 

 

Not meaning to be facetious, because I do understand that the importance of presence and community worship but you need to explore digital outlets to spread your word, (like everyone else). Also, given that God is omnipresent, that's got to be a better connection than my flakey Virgin broadband? 

 

 

Probably not the best advice judging by today's efforts!

[Royston.]

2 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Rita Ora is my religion, so surely I should be allowed to visit her KP every week?

 

[Jattdogg]

16 hours ago, Smudge said:

 @JattdoggI would have thought that if you have a cold, you could have caught any airborne virus. Stay Safe 

Feeling a little better today, not blowing my nose every 30 seconds so thats a good sign. Tired and my back aches..still feelin sick but looks like i shall be just fine. About 2 weeks ago my wife and kids both had this 2 days cold type thing and were fine after. I never got it but perhaps it decided to wait 2 weeks for diwali.

[Benguin]

18 minutes ago, Fktf said:

We've heard a lot of self interested arguments against restrictions on here, but this is by far my favourite. 'Objectively I believe my reason is more worthy of yours'. Good grief. 

That’s not what I said. To a practising Christian, worshiping god is objectively the most important thing in their lives. Even if an atheist was right that there is no god, for the Christian it is still the most important thing in their lives as they believe in god. Therefore restrictions against this are restrictions on the most important thing in a Christians life. I don’t think it’s right to compare that to going to the pub. Yes, as some have pointed out, it’s important to a lot of people but for the majority of people, going to the pub is a fun thing to do, not the most important thing in their life.

 

[rachhere]

2 minutes ago, Benguin said:

That’s not what I said. To a practising Christian, worshiping god is objectively the most important thing in their lives. Even if an atheist was right that there is no god, for the Christian it is still the most important thing in their lives as they believe in god. Therefore restrictions against this are restrictions on the most important thing in a Christians life. I don’t think it’s right to compare that to going to the pub. Yes, as some have pointed out, it’s important to a lot of people but for the majority of people, going to the pub is a fun thing to do, not the most important thing in their life.

 

Surely a relationship with God is the most important thing - you don't need to be in a church building to do that. 

[urban.spaceman]

2 minutes ago, rachhere said:

Surely a relationship with God is the most important thing - you don't need to be in a church building to do that. 

Matthew 6 5-6

 

5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 

6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

 

[Benguin]

54 minutes ago, z-layrex said:

Ok. The nearest star to our own sun is 4.3 light years away. An insane distance. There are, assuming an average of 100 billion stars per galaxy, about 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars in the universe. We live on a spec in the cosmos. To take part in any sort of organised religion, thinking there is some deity listening/judging, is pure small-minded human ridiculousness to me, and nothing more than people's fear of death and unwillingness to accept the nothingness of eternity.

 

Consequently, what the comparatively small amount of church/mosque/whatever goers 'need' is not in the interest of society as a whole right now. Especially when these unnecessary congregations of people are based on a fantasy.

Your first point is “because the universe is so big and we are so small, believing in God is human small mindedness.” This is not offensive, just silly.

You then said “it’s just fear of death and unwillingness to accept an eternity of nothing.” I wasn’t aware that you were able to gage and understand what other peoples reasons for doing something was, over the internet. That sounds great, how do you do it?

 

Third point: Why does it matter what a bunch of meaningless atoms in motion do? 

 

[Benguin]

7 minutes ago, rachhere said:

Surely a relationship with God is the most important thing - you don't need to be in a church building to do that. 

Absolutely and for you as a believer I would postulate my debate differently. I am saying worshiping God on here because most people arguing come from a position of not understanding what church means to

church goers.

[rachhere]

3 minutes ago, Benguin said:

Your first point is “because the universe is so big and we are so small, believing in God is human small mindedness.” This is not offensive, just silly.

You then said “it’s just fear of death and unwillingness to accept an eternity of nothing.” I wasn’t aware that you were able to gage and understand what other peoples reasons for doing something was, over the internet. That sounds great, how do you do it?

 

Third point: Why does it matter what a bunch of meaningless atoms in motion do? 

 

You can't just say he's being silly! Countless of very educated people don't believe in God - at the end of the day it is a matter of faith. Seriously I know you mean well but you are just going to be pushing people away here in not trying to understand their perspective.

[Benguin]

2 minutes ago, rachhere said:

You can't just say he's being silly! Countless of very educated people don't believe in God - at the end of the day it is a matter of faith. Seriously I know you mean well but you are just going to be pushing people away here in not trying to understand their perspective.

Two points on that

 

1. His post is silly, he is saying we’re small minded for believing in God because the universe is so big. He’s not offered anything there, just made two statements.

 

2. Yes it is a matter of faith but it depends on your definition of faith. Faith means (with confidence) Belief in God is not a gamble on Pascal’s wager. As the bible teaches us:

 

Romans 1 19-20 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,^[in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

 

 

 

 

 

[urban.spaceman]

Thank **** we're not in Iran.

 

 

 

[Facecloth]

56 minutes ago, Benguin said:

That’s not what I said. To a practising football fan, worshiping their team is objectively the most important thing in their lives. Even if an non football fan was right that football isn't important , for the football fan it is still the most important thing in their lives as they love the game. Therefore restrictions against this are restrictions on the most important thing in a football fans life. I don’t think it’s right to compare that to going to the pub. Yes, as some have pointed out, it’s important to a lot of people but for the majority of people, going to the pub is a fun thing to do, not the most important thing in their life.

 

 

58 minutes ago, Benguin said:

That’s not what I said. To a pub goer, having a pint with their mates is objectively the most important thing in their lives. Even if a non drinker was right that having a pint with a mate was meaningless, for the pub goer it is still the most important thing in their lives as they need the social interaction. Therefore restrictions against this are restrictions on the most important thing in a pub goers life. I don’t think it’s right to compare that to going to the church. Yes, as some have pointed out, it’s important to a lot of people but for the majority of people, going to the church is place to worship God which can be done anywhere, not the most important thing in their life.

 

I could keep going editing these if you want?

[Babylon]

38 minutes ago, Benguin said:

Romans 1 19-20 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,^[in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Manny 1 02-90 - Just what is it that you want to do? Well, we wanna be free, we wanna be free to do what we wanna do And we wanna get loaded and we wanna have a good time. And that's what we're gonna do.

[urban.spaceman]

15 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Manny 1 02-90 - Just what is it that you want to do? Well, we wanna be free, we wanna be free to do what we wanna do And we wanna get loaded and we wanna have a good time. And that's what we're gonna do.

James 9 42 - For he hath who chatteth shit, shall soon also getteth banged

[dsr-burnley]

2 hours ago, z-layrex said:

Ok. The nearest star to our own sun is 4.3 light years away. An insane distance. There are, assuming an average of 100 billion stars per galaxy, about 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars in the universe. We live on a spec in the cosmos. To take part in any sort of organised religion, thinking there is some deity listening/judging, is pure small-minded human ridiculousness to me, and nothing more than people's fear of death and unwillingness to accept the nothingness of eternity.

 

Consequently, what the comparatively small amount of church/mosque/whatever goers 'need' is not in the interest of society as a whole right now. Especially when these unnecessary congregations of people are based on a fantasy.

That last sentence is unworthy of anybody.  

 

An attitude of "I am right and anyone who disagrees is stupid" is unpleasant and unnecessary.  You can have your own beliefs without abusing other peoples'.

 

An attitude of "I don't believe in church so that adds to the reasons for closing churches" is so arrogant and anti-democratic.  It doesn't.  I don't drink alcohol but if I suggested that was a reason not to open pubs, I would be wrong.

 

Being a Christian myself, I don't get the anti-Christian ethos in the general public.  Gym users campaigned to have gyms open during lockdown, and so did golf club members re. their golf courses.  They didn't get criticised over the principle of wanting to be better than other people or demanding extra rights.  Look on churchgoers as the members of a club that meets on Sundays (and other days too).  We have worked hard to make it safe, we want to continue to meet safely, we appeal to the government to let us.  If we were the Weight Watchers Association, there would be no hidden or unhidden agenda accusing us of asking for unfair advantages.