Coronavirus Thread

[Jon the Hat]

2 hours ago, Buce said:

 

It's a spectacular own goal, if it is: This picture was taken on Thursday - note the lack of masks, and if he thinks that's that's two metres apart he needs to get himself a new tape measure.

 

The man is a halfwit.

 

 

 

Rachel Burden was going on about this earlier.  Standing for a photo for a few seconds is not very high risk if you spent the rest of the meeting metres apart around a large conference table.

 

Hardly anyone seems to be be pointing out that if Boris after having a bad case of Covid doesn't have any antibodies a few months later then does this mean the vaccine won't work and we are all ****ed?

[Benguin]

54 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

Jesus is just about believable for me.

 

It's the idea of an omnipotent God that's not. As if. Get over yourself. It's like the bacterium in a person's arse crack thinking that the person watches their every move and judges them, stands silent whilst they do things wrong and is petty enough to punish them at the end of days. The Christian verson of God is petty, vindictive, and controlling. 

You have either been deceived or haven’t read the bible. Christianity isn’t a works based religion. You don’t go to heaven for being good and hell for doing bad. We are all bad and have free will to choose to admit we’re bad and call on a saviour (Jesus) or reject the gospel and go to hell.

 

people always ask why a loving god would send a good person to hell. This ignores two things, 1. No one but god is good and 2. Why would a loving god force someone into his presence if they don’t want that? Since hell is the absence of God, it is loving for god to remove his presence from them if they do not want it. 

[Buce]

1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:

Rachel Burden was going on about this earlier.  Standing for a photo for a few seconds is not very high risk if you spent the rest of the meeting metres apart around a large conference table.

 

Point is, it gives us no confidence that that is the case. It's all about public perception.

 

1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:

 

Hardly anyone seems to be be pointing out that if Boris after having a bad case of Covid doesn't have any antibodies a few months later then does this mean the vaccine won't work and we are all ****ed?

 

 He claims he is "brimming with antibodies" (unsubstantiated).

 

Again, it's all about the message - do the public infer from that that if you've had it you are no longer a risk to yourself or others?

[Benguin]

1 hour ago, RobHawk said:

Santa is more beleivable than Jesus tbh

Jesus is one of the best attested historical figures of antiquity. If that’s your view, then you’d have to disregard most of known history. 

[Benguin]

12 hours ago, Innovindil said:

Hate to break it to you mate, but going to the church is a side note in a lot of christian's lives too.

There’s definitely a lot of part time Christians who put the world first, after all we’re all sinners.

[Buce]

6 minutes ago, Benguin said:

You have either been deceived or haven’t read the bible. Christianity isn’t a works based religion. You don’t go to heaven for being good and hell for doing bad. We are all bad and have free will to choose to admit we’re bad and call on a saviour (Jesus) or reject the gospel and go to hell.

 

people always ask why a loving god would send a good person to hell. This ignores two things, 1. No one but god is good and 2. Why would a loving god force someone into his presence if they don’t want that? Since hell is the absence of God, it is loving for god to remove his presence from them if they do not want it. 

 

I've tried to stay out of this discussion, but I'm curious about you using the bible as evidence of anything. The bible you refer to has been translated umpteen times and bears little resemblance to whatever the original was.

 

And could you clarify something for me? Do you take everything said in the bible as literal truth (for example Genesis)?

Edited 16 November 2020 by Buce

[Izzy]

[Jon the Hat]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

I've tried to stay out of this discussion,

Try harder man!!  Don't go down the rabbit hole!

[Jon the Hat]

Just now, Izzy said:

I know, we have a thread for the sky faeries already.

[Benguin]

11 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

If God is so powerful, the most powerful thing around as some would say, how come he didn't stop the Coronavirus from killing so many and destroying economies?

 

[Getting the thread back on topic, ish]

This is essentially a version of the famous Epicurus “Trilema”

 

1. If God is unable to prevent evil, then he is not all-powerful.
2. If God is not willing to prevent evil, then he is not all-good.
3. If God is both willing and able to prevent evil, then why does evil exist?

This makes some assumptions or steals from a worldview to make its point. 
 

First, we’re approaching this from a time bound point of view. We are not able to see the beginning, middle and end so cannot possibly say that God is not preventing evil. The bible clearly tells us that “he will make all things new” and “he will wipe away every tear” Gods plan according to the bible is to overcome evil, just because this hasn’t happened yet doesn’t mean it won’t. 
 

Secondly, if Evil exists, by what standard do we measure it by without God? If there is no absolute, transcendent standard of good and evil then everything is moot and subjective, who are you to say murder is evil, without having a standard to back that up?

 

 

[Benguin]

8 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I know, we have a thread for the sky faeries already.

With all due respect, I didn’t start it, have said multiple times that I’d prefer to engage on that thread and am simply replying to the many people who are engaging me in the discussion.

[Nod.E]

2 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Were you thinking that a year back then was the same as a year now ?    schoolboy error ............he was only 400! 

He wasn't 400, he was just a very naughty boy.

[Benguin]

13 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

I've tried to stay out of this discussion, but I'm curious about you using the bible as evidence of anything. The bible you refer to has been translated umpteen times and bears little resemblance to whatever the original was.

 

And could you clarify something for me? Do you take everything said in the bible as literal truth (for example Genesis)?

Before we begin, what’s your knowledge of textual criticism? Because you seem to be implying that scholars study modern translations.

 

I believe the entire bible is written by man and inspired by God through the Holy Spirit. Whether Adam and Eve were literally the first two people or whether God inspired it to be written that way for ease of understanding is neither here nor there for me.

 

 

[Nod.E]

6 minutes ago, Benguin said:

This is essentially a version of the famous Epicurus “Trilema”

 

1. If God is unable to prevent evil, then he is not all-powerful.
2. If God is not willing to prevent evil, then he is not all-good.
3. If God is both willing and able to prevent evil, then why does evil exist?

This makes some assumptions or steals from a worldview to make its point. 
 

First, we’re approaching this from a time bound point of view. We are not able to see the beginning, middle and end so cannot possibly say that God is not preventing evil. The bible clearly tells us that “he will make all things new” and “he will wipe away every tear” Gods plan according to the bible is to overcome evil, just because this hasn’t happened yet doesn’t mean it won’t. 
 

Secondly, if Evil exists, by what standard do we measure it by without God? If there is no absolute, transcendent standard of good and evil then everything is moot and subjective, who are you to say murder is evil, without having a standard to back that up?

 

 

What a very odd concept.

 

Humans are able to come together and collectively observe what is good and bad, evil or not, tasty or grim.

 

Rotten tomatoes or chocolate?

Tap in or 35 yard screamer?

To murder or not to murder?

 

Nobody needs a God to distinguish between good and bad. It's collectively agreed on as part of the culture. It's the 'rules' of the 'tribe' that decide this, not 'god'.

[Buce]

8 minutes ago, Benguin said:

Before we begin, what’s your knowledge of textual criticism? Because you seem to be implying that scholars study modern translations.

 

I believe the entire bible is written by man and inspired by God through the Holy Spirit. Whether Adam and Eve were literally the first two people or whether God inspired it to be written that way for ease of understanding is neither here nor there for me.

 

 

 

No offence, but I've reconsidered the wisdom of me joining this discussion, and I think I'll take @Jon the Hat's advice and stay out of it.

 

Edit: I've bumped the Religion thread for anyone who wishes to continue.

Edited 16 November 2020 by Buce

[Benguin]

1 minute ago, Nod.E said:

What a very odd concept.

 

Humans are able to come together and collectively observe what is good and bad, evil or not, tasty or grim.

 

Rotten tomatoes or chocolate?

Tap in or 35 yard screamer?

To murder or not to murder?

 

Nobody needs a God to distinguish between good and bad. It's collectively agreed on as part of the culture. It's the 'rules' of the 'tribe' that decide this, not 'god'.

On that basis, African slavery in the 19th century in America was good because the people collectively established it in law. 

[Benguin]

2 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

No offence, but I've reconsidered the wisdom of me joining this discussion, and I think I'll take @Jon the Hat's advice and stay out of it.

No problem, always happy to engage but it’s not my job to force it in people. 

[Nod.E]

3 minutes ago, Benguin said:

No problem, always happy to engage but it’s not my job to force it in people. 

If only more of you folk understood this, perhaps fewer little boys' lives would be ruined, eh? 

Edited 16 November 2020 by Nod.E

[AKCJ]

2 hours ago, RobHawk said:

Santa is more beleivable than Jesus tbh

I dunno. Have you ever seen Santa score for Man City?

[ealingfox]

It's a bit obtuse to deny that Jesus Christ existed - his existence is pretty well evidenced by non-religious history and scholarship. You're better off directing scepticism at the performing miracles, coming back from the dead and being the son of God bit, if you are so inclined.

[whitlock]

43 minutes ago, Benguin said:

You have either been deceived or haven’t read the bible. Christianity isn’t a works based religion. You don’t go to heaven for being good and hell for doing bad. We are all bad and have free will to choose to admit we’re bad and call on a saviour (Jesus) or reject the gospel and go to hell.

 

people always ask why a loving god would send a good person to hell. This ignores two things, 1. No one but god is good and 2. Why would a loving god force someone into his presence if they don’t want that? Since hell is the absence of God, it is loving for god to remove his presence from them if they do not want it. 

I'm sure i've heard all of that type of thing at Funerals and what not, but to read it like that.... it just sounds so mental.

 

How do we call Jesus?

[Nod.E]

7 minutes ago, Benguin said:

On that basis, African slavery in the 19th century in America was good because the people collectively established it in law. 

I said nothing about judgements of what is good or bad within each culture being 'right'.

 

Cultures and subcultures will make that decision for themselves, not some all seeing super power.

 

What's the point in rallying, debating, and protesting if none of it matters and 'god has a plan'?

 

Might as well sit back and let the plan happen. Oh wait, it won't, because we govern ourselves. Our actions. Our belief systems. Our laws. Everything.

 

Glad you brought slavery up actually. Religion is a man-made construct built for the control of mass populations. It's built for the very point I just raised. To keep people dosile.

 

The percentage of people in the states with no religion has doubled since the 70s and look at the chaos. America is waking up and it's getting messy.

 

[Buce]

 

THE RELIGION THREAD IS NOW OPEN FOR BUSINESS FOR THOSE WHO ARE INCLINED TO DISCUSS IT.

[Nod.E]

Just now, Buce said:

 

THE RELIGION THREAD IS NOW OPEN FOR BUSINESS FOR THOSE WHO ARE INCLINED TO DISCUSS IT.

Thank God

[Benguin]

7 minutes ago, whitlock said:

I'm sure i've heard all of that type of thing at Funerals and what not, but to read it like that.... it just sounds so mental.

 

How do we call Jesus?

Go into a private place, pray for the lord to forgive you and repent of your sins (salvation supplants sin through sanctification), put your trust in Jesus, hallelujah you’re saved.