Coronavirus Thread

[Babylon]

2 hours ago, simFox said:

There are prize winning scientists and experts on both sides of the debate, the Barrington declaration was signed by thousands of them. They're all making you tube videos and they've all been mined for quotes by everyone and articles posted in here with points on all angles. Yet somehow everything line-x reads on the internet, or watches, quotes and digests is from a better quality source.

 

Give over.

The Barrington declaration doesn't really say much at all though, other than calling for focused protection. Without many suggestions on how, if we take that to its extremes, it's even possible. We had been for months, able to eat out, go to the gym, go to the pub and do most of what we did before. So we have been already to some extent been using focused protection, by advising the vulnerable about not doing that. 

 

But, as the Government stated and as anyone with an ounce of common sense can see. It you take it to the extremes and don't attempt any control of the disease outside of those environments it's not going to work, as it will get taken in by the carers and doctors and nurses etc.  If we get a test that works in 5-15 minutes, then we've taken a step towards doing that as tests can be taken prior to shifts starting. 

 

The theory behind it is fine, but the practicality of it isn't (yet). 

 

Edited 13 November 2020 by Babylon

[Guest Harrydc]

There have been many scientists and medical experts who are not commissioned by the MSM who have come forward questioning the narrative of the pandemic. Just because you're hearing of them through the MSM, who all have the same agenda of implementing fear in to society, it doesn't mean they're 100% correct. 

 

This is what I mean by looking at the matter with an open mind. If you're just looking at one particular study and taking everything they say as pure fact, for example everything from 'imperial college', then you are writing off hundereds, if not thousands of other scientists with opinions that (may) go against the narrative and are therefore shut off. 

Edited 13 November 2020 by Harrydc

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, Harrydc said:

There have been many scientists and medical experts who are not commissioned by the MSM who have come forward questioning the narrative of the pandemic. Just because you're hearing of them through the MSM, who all have the same agenda of implementing fear in to society, it doesn't mean they're 100% correct. 

 

This is what I mean by looking at the matter with an open mind. If you're just looking at one particular study and taking everything they say as pure fact, for example everything from 'imperial college', then you are writing off hundereds, if not thousands of other scientists with opinions that (may) go against the narrative and are therefore shut off. 

 

4 hours ago, leicsmac said:

 

With respect, if a scientist was credible in the eyes of their peers and following the scientific method to provide credible results, they wouldn't have to rely only on a YouTube video to get the word out - they would also have peer reviewed, verified scientific literature backing their arguments.

 

I can only speak for myself here, but if such literature (rather than a "declaration" that can just be an assertion with no evidence) exists on "both sides" with equal frequency, I wouldn't mind reading it. Until then, however, the scientific method itself stipulates that some opinions are indeed more valuable than others on this matter. We've been here before with cigarettes and lung cancer and we're still here with climate change, after all.

Same again.

[Kopfkino]

13 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

 

Same again.

yeah but obviously all the scientists that aren’t coming forward to question the narrative have been commissioned by the MSM to not question the narrative and therefore YouTube or signing a letter with absolutely zero actual science in it in ‘collaboration’ with a libertarian think tank is the only way for their musings to get any oxygen cos MSM. It’s definitely the ‘MSM’ with nefarious intentions here and not the people behind any of the rest of it.

 

 And the MSM are so desperate to instil fear in society that you probably won’t have heard that Pfizer has a vaccine that early indications show is really quite effective. Barely saw a mention of it in MSM. And if you did hear about it, that’s only because the MSM want people to take the vaccine cos they’ve spiked it with something that makes sure everyone never believes anything that the MSM doesn’t tell them.

 

 

4 hours ago, Fktf said:

Are there any projections from the counter scientists about how they think this is going to play out, or are they just content to say the current models are wrong?

Well the Great Barrington didn’t include a single bit of scrutable science, did it? Their big moment in the sunshine and they produced nothing but meaningless words with no practical, implementable policy prescriptions nor any modelling or mathematical backing. Which is probably for the best because if you marked what Gupta has produced, you’d have to start giving her marks for spelling her own name right to avoid nil points.

 

[filbertway]

I think it's healthy to have skepticism, but you can't discount peer-reviewed scientific evidence because it doesn't suit your agenda. Having an open mind means you don't lean either way but follow the science surely?

 

@leicsmac has definitely pulled me back from potentially straying into that dangerous zone where I'm just looking for information that backs up my view point. Whenever I have a discussion with him, I really try and think about my argument or statement before stating it. I'm assuming you're a dude anyway @leicsmac, you seem nerdy and the majority of science nerds are male so I'm playing the odds . Apologies if you're not haha

 

[Stevosevic]

27k cases today.

 

Concerning after two weeks of flat numbers they're on the up the last couple of days.

[Legend_in_blue]

40 minutes ago, Stevosevic said:

27k cases today.

 

Concerning after two weeks of flat numbers they're on the up the last couple of days.

 

This is what they want to happen.  It justifies the mass testing push and rolling out the Pfizer vaccine at £30 a time.  Apparently the Oxford based vaccine is around a quarter of the cost.

Edited 13 November 2020 by Legend_in_blue

[UniFox21]

Well, my line manager tested positive today. She forced a meeting with 4 others (so 5) in a 4 person room on Wednesday, so they all have to isolate for 14 days. We have another isolating till 17th, another who has been off with a foot complaint, another off from knee surgery.

So out of the 15 of us who work in the lab, 8 are unable to work. Lovely. Management won't cancel any labs, so I'll be expected to be rushing around. Nice.

[SpacedX]

1 hour ago, Harrydc said:

There have been many scientists and medical experts who are not commissioned by the MSM who have come forward questioning the narrative of the pandemic.

We see the same nonsensical argument parroted by climate change deniers, paranoid conspiracy theorists and the anti-science book burning alt-right. What do you mean "commissioned by the MSM"? Who precisely?  "Medical Experts"???? Andrew Wakefield was a physician and academic remember? Here, this is for you:

 

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority

 

Moreover, mainstream media is not one single entity with a unified narrative or voice as you seem to suppose. Although most newspapers and TV stations depend upon one of the four global news agencies for their material this does however mean that they begin with and continue to operate on a basic precept of providing a single objective news feed to all subscribers. Objective reporting is supposed to portray issues and events in a neutral and unbiased manner, regardless of the writer or publisher's opinion or personal beliefs. Editorial policy will to an extent filter and compromise this, but news reporting is easily neutrally verifiable and crucially accountable. In contrast, online 'alt-news', internet sources and social media are not and almost invariably, those that consider such agenda driven outlets to constitute "thinking out of the box" or represent an "open mind" are the most trammeled/blinkered in their thought process and susceptible to the reinforcement of their beliefs through confirmation bias.

 

1 hour ago, Harrydc said:

Just because you're hearing of them through the MSM, who all have the same agenda of implementing fear in to society, it doesn't mean they're 100% correct. 

Valid science through being testable, reproducible, verifiable, has a voice of its own. 

 

What agenda? Ignorance and subjectivity breeds prejudice, outrage and ultimately manufactures fear which is entirely our own. Alt-news and conspiracy theory then preys on such emotional investment. MSM can similarly sensationalise but for those seeking objectivity, that is easy to spot and disregard. 

 

2 hours ago, Harrydc said:

This is what I mean by looking at the matter with an open mind.  

Again, I ask you - is that how you came to conclude that "science has proved that facemasks don't work"? 

 

2 hours ago, Harrydc said:

If you're just looking at one particular study and taking everything they say as pure fact, for example everything from 'imperial college', then you are writing off hundereds, if not thousands of other scientists with opinions that (may) go against the narrative and are therefore shut off. 

Known science is not about 'opinion'. For a theory to be considered scientific it must be able to be tested and proven false. A hypothesis or model is regarded as falsifiable because it will invite experimental observation that disproves the idea in question. In contrast, “verification” refers to statements that are shown to be true. In a scientific context, both terms relate to statements claiming a broad validity, such as theories, hypotheses, or even laws. In terms of papers, it is the reproducibility and robustness of these structural units that can be called into question – not the publication or the author itself.

 

Let the scientific method be the arbiter, not scientists, not you. 

[rachhere]

1 hour ago, UniFox21 said:

Well, my line manager tested positive today. She forced a meeting with 4 others (so 5) in a 4 person room on Wednesday, so they all have to isolate for 14 days. We have another isolating till 17th, another who has been off with a foot complaint, another off from knee surgery.

So out of the 15 of us who work in the lab, 8 are unable to work. Lovely. Management won't cancel any labs, so I'll be expected to be rushing around. Nice.

Oh no! Come to my room - I had two people today in a room which normally seats 60! Most of my students are opting for the online option now as they are so cautious about mixing with people (complete contrast to what the media is saying). 

[Costock_Fox]

2 hours ago, UniFox21 said:

Well, my line manager tested positive today. She forced a meeting with 4 others (so 5) in a 4 person room on Wednesday, so they all have to isolate for 14 days. We have another isolating till 17th, another who has been off with a foot complaint, another off from knee surgery.

So out of the 15 of us who work in the lab, 8 are unable to work. Lovely. Management won't cancel any labs, so I'll be expected to be rushing around. Nice.

Meth won’t make itself Jesse

[Izzy]

1 hour ago, rachhere said:

Come to my room 

[yorkie1999]

3 hours ago, Stevosevic said:

27k cases today.

 

Concerning after two weeks of flat numbers they're on the up the last couple of days.

What's concerning is, and i know it's a relatively short period of time but, we've been in lockdown for over a week, which should  have seen the numbers start to drop a bit surely. Maybe, everyone being cooped up together might turn out to be a bad idea.

[rachhere]

12 minutes ago, Izzy said:

!!!

[st albans fox]

12 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

What's concerning is, and i know it's a relatively short period of time but, we've been in lockdown for over a week, which should  have seen the numbers start to drop a bit surely. Maybe, everyone being cooped up together might turn out to be a bad idea.

Too soon 

 

The virus takes up to fourteen days from exposure to show 

 

Middle/end next week you should see cases drop ......the R is drifting closer to 1 ........sadly deaths will stay high for the next month but if cases drop off end next week, then daily deaths will start to slowly drop by mid December ......but as we saw in the first wave, they drop more slowly than they increase ....

[UniFox21]

1 hour ago, rachhere said:

Oh no! Come to my room - I had two people today in a room which normally seats 60! Most of my students are opting for the online option now as they are so cautious about mixing with people (complete contrast to what the media is saying). 

I'd love my department to be like that! I have full labs and a department building made to cram people in, obviously that's gone really well so far.

 

Best thing about this is all the isolations were last minute calls as the ops manager wasn't aware my line manager forced a meeting upon people when she felt ill.

[rachhere]

9 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

I'd love my department to be like that! I have full labs and a department building made to cram people in, obviously that's gone really well so far.

 

Best thing about this is all the isolations were last minute calls as the ops manager wasn't aware my line manager forced a meeting upon people when she felt ill.

That’s so bad - it’s clearly against all policy the uni have sent out. Disciplinary action needed there. We aren’t meant to be having meetings in person full stop - that’s why so much has been invested in zoom and teams. Our head of department encourages zoom meetings even if people are in neighbouring rooms. 

[Heathrow fox]

3 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

What's concerning is, and i know it's a relatively short period of time but, we've been in lockdown for over a week, which should  have seen the numbers start to drop a bit surely. Maybe, everyone being cooped up together might turn out to be a bad idea.

It will be slow going as this is no lockdown.If the first one was lockdown light,this one should be called lockdown zero.

[leicsmac]

12 hours ago, filbertway said:

I think it's healthy to have skepticism, but you can't discount peer-reviewed scientific evidence because it doesn't suit your agenda. Having an open mind means you don't lean either way but follow the science surely?

 

@leicsmac has definitely pulled me back from potentially straying into that dangerous zone where I'm just looking for information that backs up my view point. Whenever I have a discussion with him, I really try and think about my argument or statement before stating it. I'm assuming you're a dude anyway @leicsmac, you seem nerdy and the majority of science nerds are male so I'm playing the odds . Apologies if you're not haha

 

can confirm I am a meat popsicle of the male variety, yes.

 

Confirmation bias is very difficult to overcome (I struggle with it myself) but that's the beauty of the scientific method - it overruns the confirmation bias of any one scientist or even a group of them.

Edited 14 November 2020 by leicsmac

[Babylon]

13 hours ago, Harrydc said:

There have been many scientists and medical experts who are not commissioned by the MSM who have come forward questioning the narrative of the pandemic. Just because you're hearing of them through the MSM, who all have the same agenda of implementing fear in to society, it doesn't mean they're 100% correct. 

 

This is what I mean by looking at the matter with an open mind. If you're just looking at one particular study and taking everything they say as pure fact, for example everything from 'imperial college', then you are writing off hundereds, if not thousands of other scientists with opinions that (may) go against the narrative and are therefore shut off. 

Can you stop presuming that everyone who doesn’t agree with you, just sits watching the BBC.

[Footballwipe]

13 hours ago, Harrydc said:

There have been many scientists and medical experts who are not commissioned by the MSM who have come forward questioning the narrative of the pandemic. Just because you're hearing of them through the MSM, who all have the same agenda of implementing fear in to society, it doesn't mean they're 100% correct. 

 

This is what I mean by looking at the matter with an open mind. If you're just looking at one particular study and taking everything they say as pure fact, for example everything from 'imperial college', then you are writing off hundereds, if not thousands of other scientists with opinions that (may) go against the narrative and are therefore shut off. 

Another dangerous one stuck in his echo chamber, desperate to pretend that this isn't happening, or isn't as bad as it is. Do you pretend for comfort reasons, to make you feel better, or are you really just that wrapped up in the conspiracy theory.

 

Also, MSM is definitely on the bingo card. Hope everyone has marked that off.

[Babylon]

1 minute ago, Footballwipe said:

Another dangerous one stuck in his echo chamber, desperate to pretend that this isn't happening, or isn't as bad as it is. Do you pretend for comfort reasons, to make you feel better, or are you really just that wrapped up in the conspiracy theory.

 

Also, MSM is definitely on the bingo card. Hope everyone has marked that off.

Never heard it ( MSM) mentioned until we got Trump, now it’s the favourite go to word to rubbish anything and everything that’s not from YouTube, Facebook or breitbart.

 

The hilarity that the man who made it popular championed Fox News, one of the most warped, bias new channels you could hope to come across.

 

To see both sides of the coin I flicked backwards and forwards between CNN and Fox during the election. Fox is dangerous, peddling the sort of stuff that is going to get people killed.

Laughable how one, which yes has its own bias, in CNN can get slated as Fake News, when by enlarge they seemed to try and do things right. Yet Fox is meant to escape the MSM tag and he “honest” by peddling outright lies and dangerous rhetoric.

 

What else is on the bingo card? “Sheeple”, “think outside the box”.

[Buce]

[SpacedX]

4 hours ago, Babylon said:

What else is on the bingo card? “Sheeple”, “think outside the box”.

"Paid government shill" and people that profess to be "awake". Ironic, since these are the same individuals that clearly slept through science classes. 

[Guest Harrydc]

The condescending attitude of some people on here towards me is truly astonishing. Some of you are coming accross as extremely rude. It's as if you're all the Scientific advisors standing on that podium spouting scaremongering propaganda  (predicting thousands of deaths a day etc) 

Edited 14 November 2020 by Harrydc