Coronavirus Thread

[reynard]

Just now, Col city fan said:

The vaccinations will be co-ordinated by professionals at local level. Not by one of Boris’ mates at a cost of billions 

The other vaccine has been rolled out already at sites like the LGH.

It’ll get done as long as staff remain fit and healthy to do it. When something like this needs doing and people know why it needs doing, the Brits usually make it happen

 

Well as long as the Governement stay out of it we should be ok then.

[The Horse's Mouth]

Tier 4 what a ****ing joke

[Corky]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

Consider this for a moment though, if this despicable behaviour from a percentage of the population is whats causing the sheer spread of covid then how do the upstanding citizens of this country keep getting it? Especially as we should all be wearing masks, socially distancing etc. The spread of it has got to be supermarkets mainly, it's the one constant that has never had much restriction. No longer is there much effort spent cleaning down anything or limiting numbers of shoppers. 

 

Obviously buying food and supplies is essential, try changing it and it would be bedlam but the selfish helmets not boiling by the rules are either the majority or it's not them that's the main spreader anyway. 

 

 

Supermarkets must be a factor. I'd imagine care homes are still causing a lot of problems, schools too.

 

They do seem ridiculously high numbers and can't all be people meeting up in houses, parties etc.

[Legend_in_blue]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

Consider this for a moment though, if this despicable behaviour from a percentage of the population is whats causing the sheer spread of covid then how do the upstanding citizens of this country keep getting it? Especially as we should all be wearing masks, socially distancing etc. The spread of it has got to be supermarkets mainly, it's the one constant that has never had much restriction. No longer is there much effort spent cleaning down anything or limiting numbers of shoppers. 

 

Obviously buying food and supplies is essential, try changing it and it would be bedlam but the selfish helmets not boiling by the rules are either the majority or it's not them that's the main spreader anyway. 

 

 

But during the early stages of the epidemic when staff in supermarkets were not wearing masks, the staff seemed unaffected.  

 

Now we have masks, brought in far too late, and not needed during July/August during very low seasonal levels of transmission, it appears to have opened the floodgates in terms of letting people in without queuing, people not adhering to distancing and so on.  Now where do we go in terms of relaxing mask measures?  Are masks not working now we see a surge in cases?  Or is it the minority not following rules causing it?  It's probably a bit of both.

 

In terms of masks, you have 4 groups of people imo.  1 - you must wear a mask and truly believe this makes a difference.  2 - you wear a mask to do your bit for society even if you don't agree with it, you go along with it as it's the right thing to do.  3 - you don't wear a mask for medical reasons.  4 - you don't wear a mask because you don't agree with them at all.

 

It would be interesting to know where people are with this.  We need a referendum. 

 

On a serious note, I dont think its possible to pin point anywhere or any one thing responsible for the rise in cases.  To blame it on people not following rules is too simplistic.  And, are these cases truly cases at all?  I notice Yeadon on twitter is getting more irate as each day passes by.  Either he's nuts, or there's some truth in what he believes in.

 

 

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

Consider this for a moment though, if this despicable behaviour from a percentage of the population is whats causing the sheer spread of covid then how do the upstanding citizens of this country keep getting it? Especially as we should all be wearing masks, socially distancing etc. The spread of it has got to be supermarkets mainly, it's the one constant that has never had much restriction. No longer is there much effort spent cleaning down anything or limiting numbers of shoppers. 

 

Obviously buying food and supplies is essential, try changing it and it would be bedlam but the selfish helmets not boiling by the rules are either the majority or it's not them that's the main spreader anyway. 

 

 

And don’t get me started on the few don’t think they need to abide by the rules and wear a mask. I’ve also never seen anyone confront or question them about it (I’m also guilty here...). But surely staff should question these morons?

[Pliskin]

26 minutes ago, bmouth_fox said:

And don’t get me started on the few don’t think they need to abide by the rules and wear a mask. I’ve also never seen anyone confront or question them about it (I’m also guilty here...). But surely staff should question these morons?

What can the staff do though? Member of the public tells them to **** off and there’s little they can do about it. Police are the only people who can actually legally do people for it, but like they have actually got time to deal with it..... 

 

In short, we just have to hope the majority are following the rules. 

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

2 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

What can the staff do though? Member of the public tells them to **** off and there’s little they can do about it. Police are the only people who can actually legally do people for it, but like they have actually got time to deal with it..... 

 

In short, we just have to hope the majority are following the rules. 

Staff ‘power’ is limited to ejecting them from the store. But you’re right, these ‘rules’ aren’t really enforceable on this scale. And that’s always been the problem.

[CosbehFox]

Something I’ve noted that supermarkets could more strongly insist on and act upon is 1 person per household shopping. 
 

Now I know there’s occasions where that’s not possible but the amount of times I’ve seen a full family unit with two parents or groups of teenagers. 

[Pliskin]

2 minutes ago, bmouth_fox said:

Staff ‘power’ is limited to ejecting them from the store. But you’re right, these ‘rules’ aren’t really enforceable on this scale. And that’s always been the problem.

Such a hard thing to look after, I mean like you say they can eject them and potentially ban them, but they can just stroll back in, those willing to break the rules I imagine are just going to be plain unreasonable in general, so they will go around just being dicks about everything whilst others follow the regulations. You can just hope they don’t infect anyone in the process. 

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

3 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

Such a hard thing to look after, I mean like you say they can eject them and potentially ban them, but they can just stroll back in, those willing to break the rules I imagine are just going to be plain unreasonable in general, so they will go around just being dicks about everything whilst others follow the regulations. You can just hope they don’t infect anyone in the process. 

Remember in the early days of lockdown you’d see bouncers on supermarket doors - maybe that’s the answer. Either that or get the army on the streets! Might not be a bad idea, the next few weeks are going to be very hard going from the recent figures.

[Facecloth]

17 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

What can the staff do though? Member of the public tells them to **** off and there’s little they can do about it. Police are the only people who can actually legally do people for it, but like they have actually got time to deal with it..... 

 

In short, we just have to hope the majority are following the rules. 

Simple solution. People go in shops with out a mask, they can walk round, do their shopping, but are refused service at the till. The checkout staff are behind screens these days so little danger of assault. If they complain the manager is called over who reiterates the refusal of service unless they wear a mask. If all shops can get on board with it, eventually after being refused service everywhere they'll soon realise they have to start wearing them if they want to eat.

[Pliskin]

2 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Simple solution. People go in shops with out a mask, they can walk round, do their shopping, but are refused service at the till. The checkout staff are behind screens these days so little danger of assault. If they complain the manager is called over who reiterates the refusal of service unless they wear a mask. If all shops can get on board with it, eventually after being refused service everywhere they'll soon realise they have to start wearing them if they want to eat.

I agree, perhaps more harsh approach is needs to those willing to ignore the guidance without reason.

[Guest Fktf]

37 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Simple solution. People go in shops with out a mask, they can walk round, do their shopping, but are refused service at the till. The checkout staff are behind screens these days so little danger of assault. If they complain the manager is called over who reiterates the refusal of service unless they wear a mask. If all shops can get on board with it, eventually after being refused service everywhere they'll soon realise they have to start wearing them if they want to eat.

Isn't the idea to have them wear the mask whilst they do the shop, rather than just pop it on when they get to the checkout?

[The whole world smiles]

3 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Consider this for a moment though, if this despicable behaviour from a percentage of the population is whats causing the sheer spread of covid then how do the upstanding citizens of this country keep getting it? Especially as we should all be wearing masks, socially distancing etc. The spread of it has got to be supermarkets mainly, it's the one constant that has never had much restriction. No longer is there much effort spent cleaning down anything or limiting numbers of shoppers. 

 

Obviously buying food and supplies is essential, try changing it and it would be bedlam but the selfish helmets not boiling by the rules are either the majority or it's not them that's the main spreader anyway. 

 

 

It will be interesting to see research as to how much transfer of the virus happens in supermarkets. 

 

I'm skeptical myself. I think the main areas that cause the most transmission are hands down work-places and schools and unis. 

 

For instance for work I have to share a smallish office with up to 4 other people and sometimes travel up and down the country in a people carrier with 4 or 5 people. I feel at lot more at risk of getting it there than I do in lidl masked up with everyone else masked up and keeping my distance from staff and other members of the public. 

[Guest Fktf]

40 minutes ago, The whole world smiles said:

It will be interesting to see research as to how much transfer of the virus happens in supermarkets. 

 

I'm skeptical myself. I think the main areas that cause the most transmission are hands down work-places and schools and unis. 

 

For instance for work I have to share a smallish office with up to 4 other people and sometimes travel up and down the country in a people carrier with 4 or 5 people. I feel at lot more at risk of getting it there than I do in lidl masked up with everyone else masked up and keeping my distance from staff and other members of the public. 

The devil is always in the detail. At uni, we've had 15 or so students fully masked and socially distanced in 100+ seater lecture theatres. I suspect little transmission there. When they return to halls, however..

[z-layrex]

NHS England expect things to get A LOT worse going into January. They said currently we are only in the eye of the storm.

 

They are reopening the London Nightingale. With what staff I have no idea.

[reynard]

5 hours ago, The whole world smiles said:

It will be interesting to see research as to how much transfer of the virus happens in supermarkets. 

 

I'm skeptical myself. I think the main areas that cause the most transmission are hands down work-places and schools and unis. 

 

For instance for work I have to share a smallish office with up to 4 other people and sometimes travel up and down the country in a people carrier with 4 or 5 people. I feel at lot more at risk of getting it there than I do in lidl masked up with everyone else masked up and keeping my distance from staff and other members of the public. 

I tend to agree with this though the new varient more infectious type may be a game changer here. For eg I see numbers in Wales are starting to fall but this follows a strict lockdown. Most people in England are now basically not allowed to mix unless at work where there should be protocols in place to allow people to socially distance.

The extremely high numbers of infections in the South East especially suggest that what you say is correct but that also needs to be combined with the pictures of large crowds out shopping in December following the November lockdown and the relaxation of rules , especially in London, where numbers were actually increasing in the lockdown.

I'd like to see more on the % of age groups infected, especially in the area where the new strain is more prevelant, to see if numbers in the 14-21 bracket have started to fall since the end of terms at Universities and schools.

It looks really as if only pretty much a total lockdown is the only thing we can do right now if the new varient is as easily transmissable as we are told. The fact that numbers were rising in London even during the November lockdown does seem to support what you say as schools etc were still open.

[Facecloth]

7 hours ago, Fktf said:

Isn't the idea to have them wear the mask whilst they do the shop, rather than just pop it on when they get to the checkout?

Yes, but it difficult to challenge them at the door. Its about forcing them to change behaviour. A few times of walking round a shop and being refused service will soon get them on board.

[Col city fan]

9 hours ago, Pliskin said:

What can the staff do though? Member of the public tells them to **** off and there’s little they can do about it. Police are the only people who can actually legally do people for it, but like they have actually got time to deal with it..... 

 

In short, we just have to hope the majority are following the rules. 

Quite simply none of it has been enforceable

The government have always known these rules will only be followed if ‘the people’ choose to. They can do fook all if they don’t.

One reason why the infection rates are so high in the UK is our geographical size. Literally that. We have an awful lot of people here, viz a viz the size of the nation. Compared to say France or Germany, where you can go hundreds and hundreds of miles seeing just about no-one, we don’t have that in the UK, or at least not much of it.

Couple that with the attitude of ‘people ’... ‘we can do what we what when we want, it’s our right’ etc and Britain has been the perfect storm for the corona virus. It’s hardly surprising we have the worst infection rates and death rates in Europe. And I believe, now only second to the USA in the world? Truly appalling infection rates in the UK 

 

Edited 31 December 2020 by Col city fan

[Pliskin]

18 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

Quite simply none of it has been enforceable

The government have always known these rules will only be followed if ‘the people’ choose to. They can do fook all if they don’t.

One reason why the infection rates are so high in the UK is our geographical size. Literally that. We are massively over-populated viz a viz the size of the nation. Compared to say France or Germany, where you can go hundreds and hundreds of miles seeing just about no-one, we don’t have that in the UK, or at least not much of it.

Couple that with the attitude of ‘people ’... ‘we can do what we what when we want, it’s our right’ etc and Britain has been the perfect storm for the corona virus. It’s hardly surprising we have the worst infection rates and death rates in Europe. And I believe, now only second to the USA in the world? Truly appalling infection rates in the UK 

 

I absolutely agree... which begs the question what the **** were the so called leaders of our country doing when this virus was ravaging Europe? Just ****ing around and waiting for their turn? We are horribly over populated, I’m quite lucky where I live because we are fairly spread out but there are still areas of densely populated areas.

 

Its absolutely unacceptable how the virus has been handled collectively in this country, to be somewhere in the vicinity of the USA is again, unacceptable. 
 

There won’t be, but there really needs to be a thorough review of how it has been allowed to get to this stage, and I know that a lot of people want the general population to carry the can, but the government also have a lot of uncomfortable questions to answer regarding their handling of the virus, it’s been unacceptable.......

[Col city fan]

12 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

I absolutely agree... which begs the question what the **** were the so called leaders of our country doing when this virus was ravaging Europe? Just ****ing around and waiting for their turn? We are horribly over populated, I’m quite lucky where I live because we are fairly spread out but there are still areas of densely populated areas.

 

Its absolutely unacceptable how the virus has been handled collectively in this country, to be somewhere in the vicinity of the USA is again, unacceptable. 
 

There won’t be, but there really needs to be a thorough review of how it has been allowed to get to this stage, and I know that a lot of people want the general population to carry the can, but the government also have a lot of uncomfortable questions to answer regarding their handling of the virus, it’s been unacceptable.......

Don’t get me wrong mate, the US infection rates are mahooooosive, compared to anywhere else on the planet. It look like we sit about 5th actually in terms of infection rates, but about 4th in terms of deaths.

Just look how our figures compare say to Aus and New Zealand and we’ve had more covid related deaths than Russia!

 

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/geographical-distribution-2019-ncov-cases

 

 

Edited 31 December 2020 by Col city fan

[Facecloth]

4 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

I absolutely agree... which begs the question what the **** were the so called leaders of our country doing when this virus was ravaging Europe? Just ****ing around and waiting for their turn? We are horribly over populated, I’m quite lucky where I live because we are fairly spread out but there are still areas of densely populated areas.

 

Its absolutely unacceptable how the virus has been handled collectively in this country, to be somewhere in the vicinity of the USA is again, unacceptable. 
 

There won’t be, but there really needs to be a thorough review of how it has been allowed to get to this stage, and I know that a lot of people want the general population to carry the can, but the government also have a lot of uncomfortable questions to answer regarding their handling of the virus, it’s been unacceptable.......

I'm all for personal responsibility, but the government do have to carry the can for this. If your actions only affect you, then that's fine, you take responsibility for that, but right now people actions by not following the rules are affecting us all with lives or livelihoods. So in a scenario like this it is up to the government to come down hard on people not behaving and bring them into line. We have it with driving laws, the government put in regulations on speeding and drinking, because even though we should all be responsible for our own actions, speeding and drink driving can affect others, and people don't have an issue with those laws. Its a bit late now, but the government really should have pulled their finger out their arsed and found a way to force people to behave.

[Pliskin]

8 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

I'm all for personal responsibility, but the government do have to carry the can for this. If your actions only affect you, then that's fine, you take responsibility for that, but right now people actions by not following the rules are affecting us all with lives or livelihoods. So in a scenario like this it is up to the government to come down hard on people not behaving and bring them into line. We have it with driving laws, the government put in regulations on speeding and drinking, because even though we should all be responsible for our own actions, speeding and drink driving can affect others, and people don't have an issue with those laws. Its a bit late now, but the government really should have pulled their finger out their arsed and found a way to force people to behave.

Absolutely agree!

[Pliskin]

20 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

Don’t get me wrong mate, the US infection rates are mahooooosive, compared to anywhere else on the planet. It look like we sit about 5th actually in terms of infection rates, but about 4th in terms of deaths.

Just look how our figures compare say to Aus and New Zealand and we’ve had more covid related deaths than Russia!

 

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/geographical-distribution-2019-ncov-cases

 

 

You’re dead right.... when you put the death toll into context and look at the population of this country, it is disastrous. And what @Faceclothsays is correct, the penalties for those deliberately braking the rules have been feeble, there’s even been people on social media with this “I do not consent” bollocks actually carrying on their businesses as normal, well they should have their relevant licences taken off them, sent to court and told they can never practice their trade again...... and hit with a massive fine and put it into the vaccine project....  sometimes things happen that are too big to just let the general public crack on with. 
 

My personal opinion is as usual we dragged our heels from the start and have since been chasing our tale, what should have been done as soon as this virus started going through Europe was all travel in and out of this country should have been stopped immediately but for import & export of products and dire emergencies. It would have been tough, but we still could have kept the economy ticking over, and we could have probably organised a more effective tier system, we probably wouldn’t have been able to avoid the virus from being here, but we could have kept the numbers lower than they are and potentially have spared many more lives. 
 

I know comparing us to New Zealand is wrong as they have many differences to us, but what you can compare is willingness to take action early, which they did. Our situation could have been better, a lot better had the government been proactive about the virus.... the moment this thing started to spread to other islands we should have seen the warning signs and acted. 

[Col city fan]

12 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

You’re dead right.... when you put the death toll into context and look at the population of this country, it is disastrous. And what @Faceclothsays is correct, the penalties for those deliberately braking the rules have been feeble, there’s even been people on social media with this “I do not consent” bollocks actually carrying on their businesses as normal, well they should have their relevant licences taken off them, sent to court and told they can never practice their trade again...... and hit with a massive fine and put it into the vaccine project....  sometimes things happen that are too big to just let the general public crack on with. 
 

My personal opinion is as usual we dragged our heels from the start and have since been chasing our tale, what should have been done as soon as this virus started going through Europe was all travel in and out of this country should have been stopped immediately but for import & export of products and dire emergencies. It would have been tough, but we still could have kept the economy ticking over, and we could have probably organised a more effective tier system, we probably wouldn’t have been able to avoid the virus from being here, but we could have kept the numbers lower than they are and potentially have spared many more lives. 
 

I know comparing us to New Zealand is wrong as they have many differences to us, but what you can compare is willingness to take action early, which they did. Our situation could have been better, a lot better had the government been proactive about the virus.... the moment this thing started to spread to other islands we should have seen the warning signs and acted. 

I sound very glass half empty here mate, but when I say this country is in a real mess, I mean it in many ways

Taking businesses to court to get them closed risks lengthy and expensive court cases and lawyers will be crawling out of the woodwork to protect the ‘rights of their clients’. Who’s going to start this ball rolling?

If a shop refuses to serve a customer not wearing a face mask, what’s going to happen? We all know in some cases the staff will be subject to massive abuse, possibly the shop will be trashed and the customer will just move onto the next one where this isn’t enforced. Forget about the police.. a. There are hardly any anyway, b. The customer would have left the premises ages before the police get there.

 

I think the problem in the UK is three fold. 1. People throwing their ‘rights’ about left right and centre. 2. Such little deterrent 3. People’s interpretation of the ‘rules’ either being misunderstood or just flouted. 
 

This has created such a self-preservation society here in Britain. I think New Zealand and Aus, for instance, still have some sense of national identity and still ‘care’, if that makes sense? I’d imagine a bloke in Aus who wasn’t following ‘the rules’ to get a bollocking from someone. In the UK, people turn, run and ignore