Huawei or not Huawei?

[enmac]

Arguments for or against. 

[jonthefox]

Huawei.....Blue army. 

[enmac]

Huawei the lads? 

[Sampson]

Depends on how much happier or fine you are with your data and life being tracked by the Chinese government rather than Apple or Microsoft basically, which is a personal choice.

 

It makes sense the UK government don't want the Chinese government with their human rights abuses building up 5G. But from a personal point of view it's up to you to decide whether it's any worse than what Apple or Google do already in terms of seeing and tracking your data and movements really.

Edited 15 July 2020 by Sampson

[RowlattsFox]

I have an Huawei phone, just because it was a cheaper alternative to Samsung and iPhone when my contract ended  

 

to be honest, don't really understand it all and haven't bothered to research.

[The whole world smiles]

I've had a Huawei phone for my last 4. They are brilliant! As for the 5g thing I read it will cost 2 billion to remove them from it can't help but feel that money would be better off elsewhere. 

[Nalis]

Govt should go further and ban TikTok. Never used it but the amount of data they harvest is insane but most users are of an age that dont seem to care.

 

There are plenty of alternatives to TikTok out there.

[enmac]

2 minutes ago, The whole world smiles said:

I've had a Huawei phone for my last 4. They are brilliant! As for the 5g thing I read it will cost 2 billion to remove them from it can't help but feel that money would be better off elsewhere. 

Yes and you confidently assume it will cost 4 billion or more if they claim 2 billion. 

[Kopfkino]

Obviously not

[Beechey]

For a phone? No way since Google cut them off.

You can't even access Google's Play Store on Huawei devices anymore. If they develop their own OS, avoid Huawei phones like the plague.

 

For telecommunications equipment? I didn't have an issue when they were using US chips and limited to the edge of the network with a reduced market share.

However, now they'll be forced to develop their own chips, I don't trust for a second there won't be backdoors and horrendous bugs in their manufacturing and software development.

Edited 15 July 2020 by Beechey

[urban.spaceman]

There seems to be a growing appetite for minimising the influence of China in our affairs. I'm fine with that personally.

[Innovindil]

Tbh after the entire Hong Kong thing I think we should be doing everything possible to be less china dependent. 

 

Huawei is just a small part of that.

[Spudulike]

4 minutes ago, Beechey said:

For a phone? No way since Google cut them off.

You can't even access Google's Play Store on Huawei devices anymore. If they develop their own OS, avoid Huawei phones like the plague.

 

For telecommunications equipment? I didn't have an issue when they were using US chips and limited to the edge of the network with a reduced market share.

However, now they'll be forced to develop their own chips, I don't trust for a second there won't be backdoors and horrendous bugs in their manufacturing and software development.

I can on mine. Perhaps it's just new phones? 

[Beechey]

6 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

I can on mine. Perhaps it's just new phones? 

Yep, likely. 

If your phone is a Huawei P40, P40 Pro, Mate 30 series, Mate Xs or Honor 30 series (or newer), you won't have access to any of Google's services.

Edited 15 July 2020 by Beechey

[Spudulike]

1 minute ago, Beechey said:

Yep, likely. 

If your phone is a Huawei P40 and P40 Pro, Mate 30 series, Mate Xs or Honor 30 series (or newer), you won't have access to any of Google's services.

No, it's a cheapo Y6 2019. Works a treat. 

[Spudulike]

This gives some info on which devices are affected (although my phones not on the list at the bottom of the article). 

 

https://www.pocket-lint.com/phones/news/huawei/148102-what-does-huawei-s-google-ban-mean-for-your-huawei-or-honor-phone.amphtml

[Stinkenzo]

23 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

I can on mine. Perhaps it's just new phones? 

I got a P30 pro a few months ago and Google is still a thing on there, but that is a year or so old now I think. Shame, I think they're brilliant

[nnfox]

35 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Depends on how much happier or fine you are with your data and life being tracked by the Chinese government rather than Apple or Microsoft basically, which is a personal choice.

 

It makes sense the UK government don't want the Chinese government with their human rights abuses building up 5G. But from a personal point of view it's up to you to decide whether it's any worse than what Apple or Google do already in terms of seeing and tracking your data and movements really.

It isn't really the same as Google and Apple.  Yes, both of those (and Microsoft and Amazon and Snapchat and Facebook and and and) collect masses of data, the Huawei situation is fundamentally different.

 

We aren't talking about Huawei devices either, which I must admit, are generally very good (despite their falling out with Google).

 

Huawei 5g is about our vital infrastructure.  5g will bring a huge shift in connectivity, not just in phones but the Internet of Things.  Expect an explosion in connected vehicles, communicating with street furniture. The potential for live streaming of emergency incidents into health and law enforcement control rooms, controlling precision instruments from anywhere in the world. The list goes on, the possibilities are almost endless.

 

The issue is two fold, that Huawei (and therefore China) would be able to harvest virtually ALL data transmitted.  Much, much more than your shopping habits or your route to work.  Whilst I'm not sure what China could do with that harvested data, the bigger issue, in my opinion, is that if China control our communication infrastructure, that makes us EXTREMELY vulnerable to future cyber attacks.  With the future seemingly more and more reliable on connectivity, we could be in real trouble.

 

[Beechey]

24 minutes ago, Walkers said:

I got a P30 pro a few months ago and Google is still a thing on there, but that is a year or so old now I think. Shame, I think they're brilliant

Yep, it is devices released after the ban in 2019 which won't support Google Mobile Services or Google applications. Instead they'll use Huawei's "AppGallery" and "Huawei Mobile Services".

Any devices which were released before the ban will still support Google apps via a temporary license.

Edited 15 July 2020 by Beechey

[Stadt]

CCP are awful and they’ve got their fingers in so many pies. Their unserviceable loans to African countries, Taiwain, Hong Kong, treatment of Uighurs, South China Sea aggression, election tampering, organ harvesting etc all horrific.

[Arriba Los Zorros]

Huawei phones are awesome, I've had them for years now.

 

Will sadly have to move away when I get the next one for reasons mentioned by others above.

 

I cant imagine they are any worse than Google or Apple or Amazon or any other massive evil conglomerate trying to take over the world to be honest.

[whoareyaaa]

1 hour ago, Sampson said:

Depends on how much happier or fine you are with your data and life being tracked by the Chinese government rather than Apple or Microsoft basically, which is a personal choice.

 

It makes sense the UK government don't want the Chinese government with their human rights abuses building up 5G. But from a personal point of view it's up to you to decide whether it's any worse than what Apple or Google do already in terms of seeing and tracking your data and movements really.

They gonna track you not the data that's why they want to role a vaccine out worldwide 

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Sampson said:

Depends on how much happier or fine you are with your data and life being tracked by the Chinese government rather than Apple or Microsoft basically, which is a personal choice.

 

It makes sense the UK government don't want the Chinese government with their human rights abuses building up 5G. But from a personal point of view it's up to you to decide whether it's any worse than what Apple or Google do already in terms of seeing and tracking your data and movements really.

 

36 minutes ago, nnfox said:

It isn't really the same as Google and Apple.  Yes, both of those (and Microsoft and Amazon and Snapchat and Facebook and and and) collect masses of data, the Huawei situation is fundamentally different.

 

We aren't talking about Huawei devices either, which I must admit, are generally very good (despite their falling out with Google).

 

Huawei 5g is about our vital infrastructure.  5g will bring a huge shift in connectivity, not just in phones but the Internet of Things.  Expect an explosion in connected vehicles, communicating with street furniture. The potential for live streaming of emergency incidents into health and law enforcement control rooms, controlling precision instruments from anywhere in the world. The list goes on, the possibilities are almost endless.

 

The issue is two fold, that Huawei (and therefore China) would be able to harvest virtually ALL data transmitted.  Much, much more than your shopping habits or your route to work.  Whilst I'm not sure what China could do with that harvested data, the bigger issue, in my opinion, is that if China control our communication infrastructure, that makes us EXTREMELY vulnerable to future cyber attacks.  With the future seemingly more and more reliable on connectivity, we could be in real trouble.

 

I don't really see how that invalidates Sampsons original point. Either you have one of a few different US-based and controlled corporations controlling such infrastructure, or a Chinese-controlled one doing so instead. It's still up to the beholder to decide which is more palatable and that normally comes down to what one thinks geopolitically about the benevolence (or lack thereof) of such actors.

 

On that point alone, I certainly wouldn't trust the current US administration and corporate interests with that responsibility any more than the Chinese one at the present time, but that being said the US corporate and governmental situation can change far more quickly and easily to something better than the Chinese one can do.

 

16 minutes ago, Stadt said:

CCP are awful and they’ve got their fingers in so many pies. Their unserviceable loans to African countries, Taiwain, Hong Kong, treatment of Uighurs, South China Sea aggression, election tampering, organ harvesting etc all horrific.

Absolutely.

 

They're also far from the only big actor to import or export overt and covert brutality in the name of their own national self-interest.

[Nalis]

28 minutes ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Huawei phones are awesome, I've had them for years now.

 

Will sadly have to move away when I get the next one for reasons mentioned by others above.

 

I cant imagine they are any worse than Google or Apple or Amazon or any other massive evil conglomerate trying to take over the world to be honest.

True, better the devil you know though isnt it?

[nnfox]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

 

I don't really see how that invalidates Sampsons original point. Either you have one of a few different US-based and controlled corporations controlling such infrastructure, or a Chinese-controlled one doing so instead. It's still up to the beholder to decide which is more palatable and that normally comes down to what one thinks geopolitically about the benevolence (or lack thereof) of such actors.

 

On that point alone, I certainly wouldn't trust the current US administration and corporate interests with that responsibility any more than the Chinese one at the present time, but that being said the US corporate and governmental situation can change far more quickly and easily to something better than the Chinese one can do.

 

It doesn't invalidate Sampson's initial point, which is valid.  It expands on it.  Handing over personal data (voluntarily or involuntarily) to giant corporations is one thing.  Paying them handsomely to give their government the potential to, for example, switch off all traffic lights (at the lower end of what's possible).

 

There's no problems with using Huawei devices, or Apple or Google or Facebook or Amazon.  People have the freedom to choose and agree to the relevant terms and conditions.

 

This Huawei 5g thing is a much bigger issue.  It's a bit like driving a car down a road where there is CCTV, ANPR and speed cameras along the route (Google, Apple and Facebook). People can use the road and accept that their movements will be monitored and maybe used for some purpose or other.  They do it day in, day out with no problem.  Then one day, the owner of the road (Huawei)

decides to dig it up and it can't be used by anyone, just because they can.

 

We have the expertise in our own country to develop and deploy a reliable and safe 5g network.  I guess it comes down to cost and presumably Huawei are pretty cost effective when trying to create a new network on a national scale.