An unpopular opinion...?

[fox_up_north]

I think the other point is about what gives you the edge over other teams, that extra dimension.

 

A few years ago it was Vardy's pace. Everyone was on the Barca hangover and playing 4231 possession football and we ripped that up with counter attack. Then teams started copying it and Klopp came over with pressing.

 

So we need to look at what can WE do? What trend can WE set again?

 

It doesn't need to be a Vardy like for like replacement. It could be bringing back the 2 up top or a pure target man whose job is to set up wide forwards. Whatever it is, it needs to be something we own, not something we try and copy. 

[sacreblueits442]

18 minutes ago, GingerrrFox said:

Yeah and all the pundits were making a huge deal out of it because it is completely un-Vardy like. Funnily enough it’s also the first time since the restart in March that we put in a quality performance and came away with a much needed result, you’ve just agreed with my point of view in this post.
 

Can he replicate that performance and play in that style regularly moving forwards? If so then that is the Vardy we need next season. 

..no reason why the manager can not utilise him in a different way!!!

  Vardy has always been good at supplying a good service either by running the channels or pulling himself wide. He is a more superior supplier than the balls that are played through to him.

  What his teammates seems not to have picked up on is than 8 times out of 10 he will get the ball into the box to be attacked, the problem is that no one gambles as it looks like a lost cause. He started his career here playing wide, he can play a withdraw role but Rodgers does not go there and leaves him inevitably isolated.

  As for his pace, when the season started he was hitting the same times and showing no deterioration of fitness.

[MickeyMouse]

15 minutes ago, Guest said:

When we were battering everyone and he was scoring every week, Rodgers and a lot of others were very keen to point to his non-involvement in build up as something we'd implemented by design to conserve his energy and make the most of his predatory instincts, but when we go months without him getting so much of a sniff at goal it starts to look much more like a bug than a feature.

 

His touch and link play are certainly better now than when he joined but they're still not what you'd call strengths of his. It's easy to be critical of our wingers and creative midfielders for not giving him anything to work with but there's sometimes nothing on for them except the inch-perfect slide rule pass in behind.

You laid it out perfectly. With him always stretching the opposition backline it can feel like playing with a man down because a throughball is not always on. It's not a problem until we start struggling to score.

[Charl91]

We need to start phasing Vardy out. We're too Vardy centric, and I think it's detrimental to the team overall.

 

He's 33, and his legs are definitely going. He can't keep running at teams like he used to, and he doesn't get involved in the build up play very often. I think people are in denial, and seem to think he'll be able to do this 'til he's 35 or 36.

 

We're clearly never going to be able to buy an actual replacement for Vardy - I wouldn't be surprised if I don't see a better striker for LCFC in my life-time - so we probably need a few strong attacking players to compensate..

[Gevans_97]

Vardy is good enough to play amongst others more fluidly but that’s not what he’s told to do - it’s been well documented that Rodgers has asked him to limit his pressing and link up play so he can focus on runs in behind when the chance arises. When Vards has got into the game more - e.g. Sheffield United, he’s been fantastic all around and arguably that day should’ve had 3 assists.

 

At some point though, we are going to have to replace him. How many goals would Kelechi get a season if he played 90 mins every week? 15? Would that be enough? He’s got an absolute wand of a left foot. as a fan base though, we do seem to think we can do better. Can we? Or is it worth trying to get Kel firing? 

[coolhandfox]

Barnes can't hit a barn door with a banjo.

 

Gray can't play perform from the start and has the odd good 20 mins.

 

Nacho goes from skinning a defender, to tripping over he's own feet.

 

Perez has 1 good game in 5.

 

But hey the 23 golden boot winner is the problem.........

[dylanlegend]

Vardy is world class. The fact he is 33yo is good news for us, if he was 23yo he’d be gone in the summer. The truth is in terms of wages we would not improve on the quality Vardy has. Why can’t we just enjoy having quality players? Literally any other club in the PL would love to have a player like Vardy in their ranks 

[GingerrrFox]

Just now, coolhandfox said:

Barnes can't hit a barn door with a banjo.

 

Gray can't play perform from the start and has the odd good 20 mins.

 

Nacho goes from skinning a defender, to tripping over he's own feet.

 

Perez has 1 good game in 5.

 

But hey the 23 golden boot winner is the problem.........

We need Maddison/Tielemans/Praet to be contributing goals also. The point of the post is that we will not be able to find another Jamie Vardy, he is unique really but we need to sign a different type of striker who we can bring into the squad gently rather than hoping for a Vardy replacement miracle when he eventually starts to struggle. He cannot score goals constantly in a 50+ game season we need another option. Someone who will replace Vardy eventually for good. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Barnes can't hit a barn door with a banjo.

 

Gray can't play perform from the start and has the odd good 20 mins.

 

Nacho goes from skinning a defender, to tripping over he's own feet.

 

Perez has 1 good game in 5.

 

But hey the 23 golden boot winner is the problem.........

Nobody has said he's the problem, have they?

[Kopfkino]

It's a tough one cos it's really hard for a team like us to replace his goals but I don't think he offers enough in general play tbf, his link up play can be diabolical sometimes.There's a lot to be said for a Firmino type of player. When the team isn't quite on it, he doesn't really offer anything individually to change things up. It's problematic cos we are largely set up to get Jamie Vardy chances so when the opposition successfully cuts that off, we look clueless. 

 

It is a case of needing a plan B and not revolving our whole game around how to get Jamie Vardy into positions to score. I quite liked it when Perez, Maddison and Iheanacho played close together at Newcastle but Newcastle were so bad that day it's hard to judge and I don't think we saw Perez and Iheanacho close together again? 

[tetly]

6 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Barnes can't hit a barn door with a banjo.

 

Gray can't play perform from the start and has the odd good 20 mins.

 

Nacho goes from skinning a defender, to tripping over he's own feet.

 

Perez has 1 good game in 5.

 

But hey the 23 golden boot winner is the problem.........

Other than Vardy all the attackers are to inconsistent. Barnes has missed some sitters but was thrown in the deep end we should have brought another winger at least.

[HybridFox]

Vardy is the best striker we've had in the Premier League (first division before my time). And we'll never truly find a like-for-like in my opinion.

 

But I would look to the way Manchester City are managing Sergio Aguero as a blueprint going forward. Still very much their main striker but doesn't start every game, with Jesus coming in, so he remains fresh. With the additional games and awkward scheduling of the Europa League I think we will need to rotate more often than we have done.

 

But don't think we should usher out a player who's still at the top of his game

[dmayne7]

18 minutes ago, Guest said:

Nobody has said he's the problem, have they?

I mean, they literally have. I'm fact, it's a post you liked... Saying he's 'detrimental' to the team.

[Gubbins]

The Firminho type striker is def the way to go as wel prob never see a striker as good as vardy for sheer goal scoring again. But equally we need to complement that type of striker with some widemen who will get goals. Unfortunately this means not just getting someone to take Vardys place, but in all likelihood both wide positions as well. After 18 months of mostly dreadful finishing with very little improvement I dont see it being Barnes who is sadly the best of the bad bunch we currently have. It's not gonna be cheap.

[Fightforever]

Thing about vardy is he could work in a front three type set up its just that we dont have the other 2.

[don_danbury]

Just now, dmayne7 said:

I mean, they literally have. I'm fact, it's a post you liked... Saying he's 'detrimental' to the team.

people will appreciate him even more when he's gone. simply because we rely so much on him. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, dmayne7 said:

I mean, they literally have. I'm fact, it's a post you liked... Saying he's 'detrimental' to the team.

That post literally does not say that. It says we as a team are far too reliant on him and that is to our detriment. That's not the same as saying he's THE problem, is it?

[Hoopla10]

41 minutes ago, GingerrrFox said:

This is probably going to be a divisive opinion and maybe not many people will agree with me.

While I agree in theory I don't see the logic in moving Vardy on. He's capable of supporting and assisting other players (as we've seen). His assists are twice as high as Perez and Kalechi combined. Other than passes his stats closely match Mane who is arguably the best at what you're proposing. The issue imo is bringing in those other players. Kalechi is just not good enough, as we saw today with that horrific shot while having two runners either side to feed to. Perez is a possibility but needs to push on because he's currently not good enough (not playing enough probably doesn't help). So we need a third (and then cover). I think ultimately this is what the club is transitioning into. With such good wing backs and a solid midfield if we can bring in a talented third to play up front (who can supply 10-15 goals in a season) and then a defender just to shore it up then I think we have enough to challenge for top 4. 

[GingerrrFox]

9 minutes ago, dmayne7 said:

I mean, they literally have. I'm fact, it's a post you liked... Saying he's 'detrimental' to the team.

I didn’t say he’s detrimental to the team. I said he’s a one dimensional player who is approaching the end of his career and he relies on being provided with chances. We need to strengthen the position in the summer instead of waiting, we have to sign a striker with different attributes to push Vardy, give a Plan B and eventually replace him. Vardy is a rare breed of striker and Vardy MK2 would definitely be out of our price range even if he did exist. 

Edited 26 July 2020 by GingerrrFox

[dmayne7]

8 minutes ago, GingerrrFox said:

I didn’t say he’s detrimental to the team. I said he’s a one dimensional player who is approaching the end of his career and he relies on being provided with chances. We need to strengthen the position in the summer instead of waiting, we have to sign a striker with different attributes to push Vardy, give a Plan B and eventually replace him. Vardy is a rare breed of striker and Vardy MK2 would definitely be out of our price range even if he did exist. 

I wasn't talking about you...

[dmayne7]

12 minutes ago, Guest said:

That post literally does not say that. It says we as a team are far too reliant on him and that is to our detriment. That's not the same as saying he's THE problem, is it?

It literally does. I am not refering to the OP.

[Guest]

Just now, dmayne7 said:

It literally does. I am not refering to the OP.

I literally know the post you're literally referring to. It says - and I will quote from it very carefully and precisely to avoid further misunderstanding - "We're too Vardy centric, and I think it's detrimental to the team overall." Not "Vardy is the problem" and not "Vardy is detrimental to the team". I can't really think of a way to make that any clearer.

[Fightforever]

This.

The reason why our attack was so good in the title winning season was that you had to chose between sitting deep to stop vardy or giving mahrez loads of space.

 

Teams couldn't play deep mark vardy and let our wingers fanny about lile they do now if we had to top quality wingers breathing down the oppositions neck. In some ways it would get him even more goals. 

Edited 27 July 2020 by Fightforever

[Charl91]

34 minutes ago, dmayne7 said:

It literally does. I am not refering to the OP.

Yeah, you didn't really interpret my post in the correct way. I didn't say that Vardy is a problem, but the way we use him, and are overly reliant on him, is.

 

We seem to set up in a way where we just aim to feed Vardy. It's one dimensional, and it means that if opponents nullify Vardy, or he has a bad game, then we're buggered. Having one person score all your goals isn't necessarily a good thing - the burden needs to be shared between more of the team. I think it's interesting looking at the clubs that finished above us, and the difference between their clubs top and second scorer.

 

Liverpool: Salah and Mane - 18 and 19 goals.

Man City: Sterling, Aguero, Jesus and De Bruyne with 20, 16, 14 and 12

Man United: Martial and Rashford - 17 and 17

Chelsea: Numerous players - 15, 9, 9, 8, 7

 

Leicester: Vardy has 23 goals. The next best is Perez with 8, then Barnes 6 and Maddison with 6.

 

It's clear that our game plan revolves around trying to get Vardy in. Teams are wise to that, and when they neutralise Vardy, we struggle.

Edited 27 July 2020 by Charl91

[Guest Fktf]

It's an unpopular opinion because its wrong. You don't have to ship vardy off to be less 'vardycentric'. Sheff utd proved this, we can use him to create. 

 

He plays how he is asked to play, setting the press from near the half way line, not running the channels often. I think it's a waste if his talent, but its the instructions and not his lack of ability or fitness that make him play this way 

Edited 27 July 2020 by Fktf