Rodgers due respect

[coolhandfox]

1 minute ago, Fox92 said:

They were top of the league all season. Did they win the league? No.

Nope they weren't 

 

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It just fits people narrrative 

 

[Vardinio'sCat]

On 28/02/2021 at 17:37, volpeazzurro said:

In the previous two years with Liverpool, Klopp has won the Champions League and the Premiership yet this season, is struggling to make 4th. Is this all his fault? Has he turned into a poor manager overnight? Or is it due to the fact there have been some overwhelming and unprecedented problems in an unprecedented year. Is he suddenly a bad manager that needs sacking?

 

Pep too had a decimated defence due to injury last year and came a poor second. Nowhere near the amount of injuries though that have been suffered by  Leicester and Liverpool this year. Did he deserve sacking? Good job they didn't eh!

 

Rodgers bloody annoyed me at times last year and I would also question some of his decisions this term. However, I wasn't privy to all of the reasons behind those decisions and I do think that he can be a little too negative at times but ... despite having a tremendous young squad at his disposal, some of whom he's brought on leaps and bounds, how many times has he had the luxury to pick what he may consider to be his best 11? Not once I'd suggest. Along with Liverpool, we, I believe, have had the most overwhelming number of injuries which takes it's toll in so many different ways. 

 

I didn't like what I saw midweek or today but as far as I'm concerned, whatever the outcome this season, Rodgers is only culpable for a minor part of the blame. This season is unprecedented yet look still where we are. It's a bloody miracle really. 

 

 

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[Fox92]

4 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Nope they weren't 

 

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It just fits people narrrative 

 

I stand corrected. Apologies. 

 

It's not my narrative at all btw, so get to fvck with that. I've said many times how much I like Rodgers being here and the fact he's overachieving with us. Go back through this thread alone and you'll see I praise him as much as I criticize him.

 

And like I've said, again, I don't think we're as strong as Man Utd/Man City/Liverpool/Chelsea/Arsenal and possibly even Spurs.

 

But if I post "well I think we're about as strong as Everton/West Ham" then you'd moan at me for saying that too. 

Edited 1 March 2021 by Fox92

[coolhandfox]

1 minute ago, Fox92 said:

I stand corrected. Apologies.

 

It's not my narrative at all btw, so get to fvck with that. I've said many times how much I like Rodgers being here and the fact he's overachieving with us.

 

And like I've said, again, I don't think we're as strong as Man Utd/Man City/Liverpool/Chelsea/Arsenal and possibly even Spurs.

 

But if I post "well I think we're about as strong as Everton/West Ham" then you'd moan at me for saying that too. 

I was talking in general.

 

I'd agree with you on the on squad strenghtens, as we know we have a good 11-15 players but not a lot after that. 

[HighPeakFox]

Just now, coolhandfox said:

I was talking in general.

 

I'd agree with you on the on squad strenghtens, as we know we have a good 11-15 players but not a lot after that. 

I think it's more pertinent that we don't have sufficient cover in 2/3 very important positions - if we can get those 2/3 (and hopefully more) covers this summer, and hold on to our crown jewels too, then next season, who knows?

[STUHILL]

1 minute ago, Fox92 said:

Last season we fell away and Rodgers also fell away at Liverpool. The Liverpool one was probably worse but it still happened which is where the "bottler" stuff comes from. If people take the piss out of Spurs for "bottling" then they wanna look closer to home now.

 

People always like to refer back to "imagine when xxx was manager" but we can't live with that attitude otherwise we'll never move on.

 

I like Rodgers, think he's done superb here, but I will criticize him as much as I praise him. Last two performances haven't been good enough so I'll say it. 

Leicester prior to Rodgers joining finished 9th, 9th and 12th. Just to come in and have us instantly competing for top 4 finishes in his first two full seasons, is a huge achievement in itself, and I often think is completely overlooked when suggestions he is a bottler comes out. 

 

He did the same at Liverpool. They were nowhere near the title when he joined, and he got them within 2 points and a Gerrard slip from winning it in his second full season. 

 

I also don't get this idea that somehow people aren't allowed to criticise him? Who is stopping you? I guess what people really mean is, we want to criticise him but not be criticised ourselves for doing so. Not really how a forum works guys. Someone posts something, people read it and then either agree or disagree. As long as there are no personal insults being chucked around, just get on with it! 

 

 

[coolhandfox]

Just now, HighPeakFox said:

I think it's more pertinent that we don't have sufficient cover in 2/3 very important positions - if we can get those 2/3 (and hopefully more) covers this summer, and hold on to our crown jewels too, then next season, who knows?

I agree 2 or 3 good buy and we are in a great place.

[Koke]

Not a bottler but we can't ignore the 15 point lead he threw away last season. City fans love to stick it to Spurs calling them all sorts but last season was a worse "bottle job" than anything Spurs has ever done.

[coolhandfox]

I can understand criticism for indivudal games, team selections.

 

It the over the top, hes not doing a good job overall criticism.

 

He's taken us to the next league.

 

Players will want to come and stay just to work with him.

[HighPeakFox]

3 minutes ago, Koke said:

Not a bottler but we can't ignore the 15 point lead he threw away last season. City fans love to stick it to Spurs calling them all sorts but last season was a worse "bottle job" than anything Spurs has ever done.

How did 'he' throw it away exactly? I know your point, but simply cannot agree with the interpretation .

[Koke]

5 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

How did 'he' throw it away exactly? I know your point, but simply cannot agree with the interpretation .

 

We went on a horrid run after losing to Liverpool on Boxing Day. We had a few injuries but nothing compared to the crisis we're having now.. Ultimately the buck stops with the manager. Hee, as the manager, was responsible for what happened. We had a 15 point lead over United. 

Edited 1 March 2021 by Koke

[Fox92]

1 minute ago, HighPeakFox said:

How did 'he' throw it away exactly? I know your point, but simply cannot agree with the interpretation .

Because he's the manager, that's all. Don't think @Koke meant it personally.

 

Players perform/don't perform and win/lose games but it is the manager's responsibility as it is in any sector. 

[HighPeakFox]

Just now, Koke said:

 

We went on a horrid run after losing to Liverpool on Boxing Day. We had a few injuries but nothing compared to the crisis we're having now.. Ultimately the buck stops with the manager. He? As the manager, was responsible for what happened. We had a 15 point lead over United. 

Aha, ok. Responsible - absolutely. Agree with that. 

[Koke]

22 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Sick of hear this fell away crap about Rodgers and the title at Liverpool, he won 12 of the last 14 games......................

 

 

I mean, he did throw it away. He was 3-0 up at Palace and didn't win. And he needed a point against a reserve Chelsea side but somehow lost to them. 

 

I like Rodgers and he has more positives than negatives but there's no need to do revisionism on his time at Liverpool.

[foxfanazer]

You can't discuss anything critical of Brendan without getting jumped on by the same old posters on here. Everyone else seems fair game (even Vardy) but not the man in charge of it all. If we rightly give him the credit when things are going well we should be well within our rights to speak of certain flaws of his

[dayday]

Last seasons games against Bournemouth away, Brighton at home, Watford away and Everton away stick in the mind, games we should of done a lot better in and ultimately them games cost us our Champions league spot 

[STUHILL]

Just now, foxfanazer said:

You can't discuss anything critical of Brendan without getting jumped on by the same old posters on here. Everyone else seems fair game (even Vardy) but not the man in charge of it all. If we rightly give him the credit when things are going well we should be well within our rights to speak of certain flaws of his

Why are you and some others so sensitive?! Just get on with it. Post your criticisms as loads of others do and debate whoever you want or ignore them.

If I post something, I enjoy debating with someone who disagrees. Whole point of a forum! 

[HighPeakFox]

4 minutes ago, foxfanazer said:

You can't discuss anything critical of Brendan without getting jumped on by the same old posters on here. Everyone else seems fair game (even Vardy) but not the man in charge of it all. If we rightly give him the credit when things are going well we should be well within our rights to speak of certain flaws of his

That isn't true at all - all I'm discussing is a matter of perception, that is all.

[foxfanazer]

12 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

Why are you and some others so sensitive?! Just get on with it. Post your criticisms as loads of others do and debate whoever you want or ignore them.

If I post something, I enjoy debating with someone who disagrees. Whole point of a forum! 

Because it turns into semantics and being labelled as 'not a proper fan' . There doesn't seem to be any room for debate unless you think absolutely everything associated with the club is faultless. No doubt he's done wonders here but he's also very capable of getting it wrong sometimes which should be open to talk about without being spoken down to

 

But yeah you're right people should post regardless and ignore who they have to 

Edited 1 March 2021 by foxfanazer

[Koke]

The reason I personally sometimes is critical of Rodgers is because of the squad he has. Others have pointed  out our previous league finishes but failed to mention previous managers had inferior squads. With the squad we have and the elite level salary we're paying our manager, it is not unreasonable to expect a lot more than we usually do. 

 

Puel was working with Iborra, Silva, Gray, Slimani etc. Shakespeare was working with an aging Morgan, Simpson, Fuchs etc. 

 

*I accept our current injury crisis and I'm not blaming BR for that.

[STUHILL]

21 minutes ago, foxfanazer said:

Because it turns into semantics and being labelled as not a proper fan. There doesn't seem to be any room for debate unless you think absolutely everything associated with the club is faultless. No doubt he's done wonders here but he's also very capable of getting it wrong sometimes which should be open to talk about without being spoken down to

Show me some quotes. I have to see, as I'm shocked if so? Although I did tease someone the other day and said "Toddle off to a Manchester forum"... Thought I was being witty but now you make me feel bad  I think you will find the vast majority on here are above that kind of talk though.

 

There is absolutely room for debate. Check back through this thread for an example of opposing views on how much criticism he should or shouldn't be getting. 

 

I criticised him on Thursday for not starting Barnes, but I know exactly why he didn't now. Where I disagree, is those calling him a "bottler", I think that is very harsh on someone who has got us challenging for top 4 finishes against clubs who have chucked 100s of millions at it and have much more quality in depth in their squads. 

 

Someone has just posted in here, that if he doesn't win the FA cup and/or finish in the top 4, then he is bottler. Completely failing to take in account our ridiculous amount of injuries, lack of spending, fatigue of fighting on 3 fronts and the huge budgets and squad depths the clubs around us all have. Why can't I say that without being accused of "jumping on backs" of people 

 

Edited 1 March 2021 by STUHILL

[StanSP]

You can't ignore the collapse and it'd be foolish to do so, from any fan. 

 

But I don't get how you can be a 'bottler' when you start the season like we did, remain in top 4 all season (the only club to do so), pick up some huge results on the way to get us there while suffering some terrible injuries to big squad players, and all this in spite of what happened at the end of last season. A side that lacks bottle doesn't even kick off the season in good fashion like we did and at times be considered title contenders. 

Our mentality was praised throughout the first half of the season for how we responded to adversity; the biggest kind being the injuries and losing those key players for long-term. Just because we lose 2 games out of 16, to me, does not mean we lack bottle. 

[STUHILL]

7 minutes ago, Koke said:

The reason I personally sometimes is critical of Rodgers is because of the squad he has. Others have pointed  out our previous league finishes but failed to mention previous managers had inferior squads. With the squad we have and the elite level salary we're paying our manager, it is not unreasonable to expect a lot more than we usually do. 

 

Puel was working with Iborra, Silva, Gray, Slimani etc. Shakespeare was working with an aging Morgan, Simpson, Fuchs etc. 

 

*I accept our current injury crisis and I'm not blaming BR for that.

The inferior squads finished 9th, 9th and 12th.

 

Rodgers with a superior squad has finished 5th and currently 3rd. 

 

Compare that to the squads of Man U, Chelsea, Man City, Liverpool, Spurs and perhaps even Arsenal (on paper)... would you not say that is an achievement and perhaps even a little better than our current squad is expected to finish (on paper)? 

 

Surely at the very least, you would admit a 5th and 3rd place is in line with superior expectations?

[foxfanazer]

1 minute ago, STUHILL said:

Show me some quotes. I have to see, as I'm shocked if so? Although I did tease someone the other day and said "Toddle off to a Manchester forum"... Thought I was being witty but now you make me feel bad  I think you will find the vast majority on here are above that kind of talk though.

 

There is absolutely room for debate. Check back through this thread for an example of opposing views on how much criticism he should or shouldn't be getting. 

 

I criticised him on Thursday for not starting Barnes, but I know exactly why he didn't now. Where I disagree, is those calling him a "bottler", I think that is very harsh on someone who has got us challenging for top 4 finishes against clubs who have chucked 100s of millions at it and have much more quality in depth in their squads. 

 

Someone has just posted in here, that if he doesn't win the FA cup and/or finish in the top 4, then he is bottler. Completely failing to take in account our ridiculous amount of injuries, lack of spending, fatigue of fighting on 3 fronts and the huge budgets and squad depths the clubs around us all have. Why can't I say that without being excused of "jumping on backs" of people 

 

I think maybe you're being a little sensitive now mate as I wasn't talking about you, haven't seen your posts in this thread tbh. 

 

'bottler' is just one of those lazy throwaway football buzz words. Not getting over the line last year isn't something I'm willing to completely forget as we should've done enough to get over the line. This season he's got valid excuses due to the packed schedule and injury crisis. I do feel like he's always had people making excuses for any faults he's made here but that's hardly his fault. 

 

Anyway this is a fantastic forum full of posters from all walks of life with differing levels of optimism and tolerance etc. Would just like to see a bit more respectful debate at times 

[Mike Oxlong]

You can give Brendan respect for his broad achievements and still criticise aspects of what he has done or instances of his decision making.  It doesn’t have to be either/or. The two are not mutually exclusive.