Rodgers due respect

[Koke]

7 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

Mr Optimism strikes again 

 

Agree to disagree. 

 

Yeah like he didn't leave Celfic when they were on the verge of a historic moment in their history. 

[STUHILL]

Just now, Koke said:

 

No. But people like you are getting on folks backs all day.

I am a big bully. 

[Chocolate Teapot]

7 minutes ago, Koke said:

I'm pro Rodgers and to my knowledge nobody is saying Rodgers Out. He gets heaps of praise when he get things right which he has done a lot. So it'd be nice if people were allowed to criticise him when he gets things wrong or loses games he shouldn't.

I don't get it, he gets heaps of praise, the mere mention of criticism and people get their backs up. Hes a great manager and the best we could hope for....however he'd definitely jump ship if something bigger came up, he's at leicester because it'll help him get a bigger job and that's fine, hence your marriage if convenience comment being fair, and additionally expectations at the club are raised, largely down to what he's done and partly due to him saying it's possible. People are going to be pissed off when we lose, it's called being a fan, if you like losing football isn't for you.

[StanSP]

34 minutes ago, Koke said:

I'm pro Rodgers and to my knowledge nobody is saying Rodgers Out. He gets heaps of praise when he get things right which he has done a lot. So it'd be nice if people were allowed to criticise him when he gets things wrong or loses games he shouldn't.

You are allowed. That's never changed. Never will, either. 

But the nature of a forum is to expect to be questioned if people disagree with it. On both sides. For the most part it's been quite civil so I'm not sure why people get to het up as if they're being silenced for voicing their opinion. 

[fuchsntf]

B.Rodgers  has made no excuses,Not gone on a Blame crusade,  not hidden behind our Real problems & injury crisis...

Hes always been upfront..

 

i believe Its time that this forum and all fans get behind him & the team. These injuries with no same Team routine is Really our problem.

So far he was Handled it brilliantly.... 

Its just got too much, for the Ressources or Lack of, that has/is grinding us down....

There are no other reasons..No Historical- routine or Blame issues...

We dont know what the Ceiling is,because our walls have been hit by injury-earthquakes.....

Looking for points to discredit him ,have Zero meaning...

Selection/tactics cant be expected to find any continuity, once the fringe players or Non- match-fit returnees are trying but not translating or converting effort

Into Quality routine... Where/how can One be expected to hold that routine...

Our middle-engine & driving pins are clapped out....Broke,defect,kaput,casse,fxxked.!!!

 

A bit more forethought instead of discrediting/scapegoating or point scoring at someone expense....would go along way...

Our Team has had the Heart Ripped out of it, and recuperation has shown takes longer than 2-3 games...

 

 

 

 

Edited 28 February 2021 by fuchsntf

[inckley fox]

10 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

B.Rodgers  has made no excuses,Not gone on a Blame crusade,  not hidden behind our Real problems & injury crisis...

Hes always been upfront..

 

i believe Its time that this forum and all fans get behind him & the team. These injuries with no same Team routine is Really our problem.

So far he was Handled it brilliantly.... 

Its just got too much, for the Ressources or Lack of, that has/is grinding us down....

There are no other reasons..No Historical- routine or Blame issues...

We dont know what the Ceiling is,because our walls have been hit by injury-earthquakes.....

Looking for points to discredit him ,have Zero meaning...

Selection/tactics cant be expected to find any continuity, once the fringe players or Non- match-fit returnees are trying but not translating or converting effort

Into Quality routine... Where/how can One be expected to hold that routine...

Our middle-engine & driving pins are clapped out....Broke,defect,kaput,casse,fxxked.!!!

 

A bit more forethought instead of discrediting/scapegoating or point scoring at someone expense....would go along way...

Our Team has had the Heart Ripped out of it, and recuperation has shown takes longer than 2-3 games...

 

 

 

Nobody can cast serious doubt on the manager. Our limited resources and injuries, set against how brilliantly we've done so far, mean we should be very positive about the job Rodgers has done.

 

But it's a stretch to exempt him from criticism too. Injuries are going to be the story of the rest of this season. They'll get worse - not only for us, but for plenty of others. Whether or not we truly move on from the collapse of early 2020 will depend on how we perform in the current climate. If the aim is to do better than we did last year, then we're going to have to overcome these disadvantages, and performances like today's - while understandable - can only be looked at two ways: either it's not good enough, or it's indicative of an eventual, inevitable decline because a side with our resources simply isn't good enough to compete. And if we buy into the second of those two narratives, we may as well pack up and go home now.

 

It's worth pointing out that we played another team today who have had a packed schedule, and who didn't have several top players in their line-up. Yes, we all know about their greater resources, but that's exactly the sort of advantage we're battling against. If we want to supplant Arsenal or Spurs in the Big 6 it'll have to be done with inferior resources, and - like last year- with injuries which do us a great deal more harm than theirs do to them.

 

As I see it, we have to concentrate on what we can affect, rather than what we can't. The Thomas-Albrighton switch had nothing to do with fitness, and really didn't need to wait until half time. If you were going to lump for Iheanacho, was it really necessary to also field the 34 year-old, injured Vardy alongside him for yet another pointless and debilitating 90 minutes? Couldn't we have acted on Barnes when, by the manager's own admission, he felt niggles in a pre-existing cartilage injury in the first half? I'm sure there's a good case for the defence in all of these points, but it seemed to me that Brendan got stuff wrong today, just as he did over the two legs with Slavia.

 

But that doesn't mean he isn't a fine manager. All fine managers have moments like this. I remember the shame when, as League Cup holders, our mostly first choice eleven were brutally rearranged by the mighty Grimsby. Rodgers will have to reflect on his decisions over the past week. And all of these excuses - as reasonable as they are - are going to have to be forgotten if we're to have a good season from this point on.

[volpeazzurro]

6 hours ago, Strokes said:

1 Celtic were not competing then, they haven’t been all season.

 

2 it wouldn’t be a ransom, it’s been widely reported he would be available for less than £20m.

 

3 The question I responded too didn’t stipulate that Rodgers had too rate them or not.

 

4 Even if they turned out not to be very good, I’d imagine they’d be better than playing an injured player.

Think long term not short term fix for multi millions. Each signing has to be evaluated over a period of time, it isn't a computer game it's real money, every last penny of a 3 or 4 years protracted wage contract like Slimani and Silva has to be accounted for. Once bought your stuck with them. If they didn't buy em, they weren't suitable or weren't worth it. Our recruitment team might just be a little more astute than a few armchair YouTube watchers.

[Alan Frost]

5 hours ago, Guest said:

It definitely is in some cases. Plenty had made their minds up about him from the second we were first linked i.e. he's an arrogant snake oil salesman. Some of the stuff that gets laid at his door without any evidence whatsoever is incredible. He's responsible for everything that goes wrong - injuries, our inactivity in January, the supposed weak mentality of our players, Wilf doing starjumps in the box to block shots. Granted it's definitely a minority who think this way and I guess when they constantly jump on every little failure week after week it seems as though they're more numerous than they are.

 

I think in the main he has delivered and the scale of the job he's done/doing is largely underappreciated. For the second season running we're in contention for the Champions League places, competing with and in some cases beating clubs with far greater resources and deeper squads, despite a mountain of injuries and some pretty glaring deficiencies in the squad. He's certainly not beyond criticism but I'd say he's got us punching above our weight, sometimes significantly so. The idea that he is somehow underperforming or in some way holding us back from achieving our true potential is, in my opinion, absurd.

 

 

I don't think he's anything but a good manager judged by the usual standards, and I've posted quite a bit on what I see as his shortcomings which I think have become more obvious lately. Possibly he's trying to achieve a big task too quickly, or may be under pressure to do so but he certainly does n't give that impression. I suspect with llittle evidence admittedly , that Vardy is playing with a groin or hip joint problem,on which nothing is being said for possibly ulterior motives. Not wise imo, if correct, and certainly not in the interests of an undoubted legend's reputation and longterm future. As BR says little despite countless opportunities and interviews I and most fans, can only guess.

[Strokes]

6 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

Think long term not short term fix for multi millions. Each signing has to be evaluated over a period of time, it isn't a computer game it's real money, every last penny of a 3 or 4 years protracted wage contract like Slimani and Silva has to be accounted for. Once bought your stuck with them. If they didn't buy em, they weren't suitable or weren't worth it. Our recruitment team might just be a little more astute than a few armchair YouTube watchers.

Just out of interest, which players would you have brought in in January (they would have to be available, the right price, willing to play second fiddle to the regular first teamers etc) and which players would you have taken out of the PL and UEL squads to accommodate them?
 

This was the question I responded too, nobody stipulated I had to be a qualified scout before I responded. Or take anything into consideration, that you have added after. This is a forum for football fans to discuss their opinions, you seem to be thinking it’s something else.

[winteriscoming]

You can criticise a manager and it doesn’t mean you want him sacked immediately. Agree with majority he gets a lot right but now and again he gets it wrong. 

[Les-TA-Jon]

Rodgers and the team in general are victims of their own success again, just like last season. 

 

Last season we overachieved in the first half of the season and then underachieved in the 2nd. We had the 8 wins on the bounce and 0-9 vs Soton. Then we lost Ndidi to injury, then Ricardo and lockdown stopped us in our tracks and let competitors (Spurs/Man U) get over some of their injuries. Being in the top 4 most of the season and then falling out to finish 5th, psychologically felt like a loss (and of course it was, especially given the points lead at one stage), but to finish 5th was still an amazing achievement. 

 

But had the 2 halves been flipped (with a poor first half and some injuries, followed by a surge to 5th place) no one would be disappointed. 

 

This season is looking to be similar. Although the difference is not as stark, because 1) we've not been as good (despite amazing results against the top 6) and we've been scrapping through most games - with all these injuries. 

[Matt]

Fair play 

 

Exactly what I’ve been saying, we’ve had injuries to key players all season, we never cried or even really spoke of it when things were going well.

[Manini]

39 minutes ago, Matt said:

Fair play 

 

Exactly what I’ve been saying, we’ve had injuries to key players all season, we never cried or even really spoke of it when things were going well.

I feel like he’s starting to get to the end of his tether with all now, no more pussy footing around the issue “we’ve just got to find a way”. I’ve got confidence that he can create a bit of a siege mentality amongst the players who have carried us all season and are going to be doubly important now. Time to see who the real leaders are. 
 

Go on Brendan. 

Edited 1 March 2021 by Manini

[StanSP]

39 minutes ago, Matt said:

Fair play 

 

Exactly what I’ve been saying, we’ve had injuries to key players all season, we never cried or even really spoke of it when things were going well.

Agreed. Other clubs have done so and got the media attention to back them. 

[lcfc_forever]

There has been so much BS written about Rodgers and the team over the past few days. 

 

The facts are we're 3rd, only one point behind Man U. That in itself with our squad size, budgets and injuries is an incredible achievement.

 

Look at where Liverpool are and how they've managed their injuries. They were champions last season and they've struggled to cope with all their injuries. 

 

Hopefully more people get behind the team and show support. We might achieve something incredible this season. When you compare that to the average expectation of the fans at the start of the season, most fans would have bitten your hand off.

 

Players are also coming back to fitness soon - Praet and Maddison look likely to be back in full training next week, with Fofana and Perez returning soon as well. 

 

In the meantime, the team are going to have to grind out results. Let's hope they've got more resilience and positivity than many of the posters here. 

[fuchsntf]

If our game changers are out, or present ( nursing injuries)  but  only performing at  70-85%, and we are depending then expecting on our fringe players to deliver & hold Top 4 . We are drastically  underestimating, the high quality needed, we & other teams have so far delivered to First reach & hold those covetted Top 4 positions, seasons long..!!

 

Like all others, I suppose we all are waiting with baited breath,what the rest of the season brings, though from my side, I will take the individual game,

or 2-4 Match period as they come....

[TJB-fox]

4 hours ago, winteriscoming said:

You can criticise a manager and it doesn’t mean you want him sacked immediately. Agree with majority he gets a lot right but now and again he gets it wrong. 

Don’t think anyone is denying that. In my opinion what is not OK is people saying f’ing this f’ing that, Brendan is shit,  Brendan is a shite negative defensive coach, Brendan should’ve signed him in Jan, Brendan sets us up to lose, Brendan is a sell-out and will jump at the first opportunity to fvck us over etc etc 

All comments I’ve seen over the past few days following the last two fixtures. It’s alright criticising him in a proper manner explaining your points constructively and using evidence etc but the reactionary response from an awful lot of our supporters is beyond weird and embarrassing. That’s on all platforms too, not just Facebook/twitter/here 

[TJB-fox]

21 hours ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

The cheque book needs to be rolled out in the summer. If we want to keep our stars and Rodgers we need to match their ambition. Another summer of selling an asset and I fear our luck will run out. When sides like Everton and villa are outspending us you worry how sustainable our form is as we're all starting to think now.

I take a totally different mindset to the one you’ve just presented. The KEY characteristic that our owners wanted to embed in the club ever since they took over was that they wanted us to be self-sustainable. Villa and Everton going in and spending however much on transfers per year with nothing to show for it is not sustainable. Us building a young, incredibly talented, valuable squad at a low cost with a responsible business model IS sustainable. Selling assets doesn’t worry me because we’re so bloody good at it. We get lads tied down longterm so when someone does eventually leave the club we get fvck loads of cash for them and turns into a fantastic deal for the club. I mean come on, Harry Maguire nearly paid for our entire new training ground which is ranked as one of the best in the world. That is sustainability and quality at the highest level. Our business model will make our form on the pitch sustainable for years to come in my opinion. 

 

I agree ambition is important but us extending the ground, building a new state-of-the-art training complex, getting Barnes/Tielemans on long term deals are big forms of ambition are they not? We’re not going to go out and spend 100m on players like Everton with no sales to balance the books. By the way, that’s not even proven to work. I’d expect a net spend of 30-50million 

Edited 1 March 2021 by TJB-fox

[Chocolate Teapot]

39 minutes ago, TJB-fox said:

I take a totally different mindset to the one you’ve just presented. The KEY characteristic that our owners wanted to embed in the club ever since they took over was that they wanted us to be self-sustainable. Villa and Everton going in and spending however much on transfers per year with nothing to show for it is not sustainable. Us building a young, incredibly talented, valuable squad at a low cost with a responsible business model IS sustainable. Selling assets doesn’t worry me because we’re so bloody good at it. We get lads tied down longterm so when someone does eventually leave the club we get fvck loads of cash for them and turns into a fantastic deal for the club. I mean come on, Harry Maguire nearly paid for our entire new training ground which is ranked as one of the best in the world. That is sustainability and quality at the highest level. Our business model will make our form on the pitch sustainable for years to come in my opinion. 

 

I agree ambition is important but us extending the ground, building a new state-of-the-art training complex, getting Barnes/Tielemans on long term deals are big forms of ambition are they not? We’re not going to go out and spend 100m on players like Everton with no sales to balance the books. By the way, that’s not even proven to work. I’d expect a net spend of 30-50million 

I wouldn't expect a net spend of higher than 20m if we don't make the champions league. And also, you say we're brilliant at selling players, who in our current squad would you sell and easily replace? We're at a different level to where we were two years ago, it's getting harder and harder to replace - look at our failure to replace mahre, we've over compensated in other areas but we've basically rolled 6s two years straight with who we've sold and how we've replaced. It's really tough to maintain as sides like Southampton would attest to.

[TJB-fox]

3 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

I wouldn't expect a net spend of higher than 20m if we don't make the champions league. And also, you say we're brilliant at selling players, who in our current squad would you sell and easily replace? We're at a different level to where we were two years ago, it's getting harder and harder to replace - look at our failure to replace mahre, we've over compensated in other areas but we've basically rolled 6s two years straight with who we've sold and how we've replaced. It's really tough to maintain as sides like Southampton would attest to.

I’m not saying we’re going to keep churning replacements out and expect them to produce at the same/better level than the player they come in for, just saying that for the money we are likely to receive then I’d be happy to risk selling a ‘key player’ 

[Mickyblueeyes]

2 hours ago, Matt said:

Fair play 

 

Exactly what I’ve been saying, we’ve had injuries to key players all season, we never cried or even really spoke of it when things were going well.

Big respect for this man after those comments. One of the unfounded criticism of him from Celtic fans when he joined is that he would spin things in his favour when things go wrong. He doesnt do that and he hasnt done it all season. He holds himself very well. 

[harpendenfox]

2 hours ago, lcfc_forever said:

There has been so much BS written about Rodgers and the team over the past few days. 

 

The facts are we're 3rd, only one point behind Man U. That in itself with our squad size, budgets and injuries is an incredible achievement.

 

Look at where Liverpool are and how they've managed their injuries. They were champions last season and they've struggled to cope with all their injuries. 

 

Hopefully more people get behind the team and show support. We might achieve something incredible this season. When you compare that to the average expectation of the fans at the start of the season, most fans would have bitten your hand off.

 

Players are also coming back to fitness soon - Praet and Maddison look likely to be back in full training next week, with Fofana and Perez returning soon as well. 

 

In the meantime, the team are going to have to grind out results. Let's hope they've got more resilience and positivity than many of the posters here. 

I think this is a great way of looking at things. If we manage top four given the situation we are in now it will be an extraordinary achievement. Let's worry less about what we might lose, and more about what we might just achieve 

[fuchsntf]

17 hours ago, inckley fox said:

 

Nobody can cast serious doubt on the manager. Our limited resources and injuries, set against how brilliantly we've done so far, mean we should be very positive about the job Rodgers has done.

 

But it's a stretch to exempt him from criticism too. Injuries are going to be the story of the rest of this season. They'll get worse - not only for us, but for plenty of others. Whether or not we truly move on from the collapse of early 2020 will depend on how we perform in the current climate. If the aim is to do better than we did last year, then we're going to have to overcome these disadvantages, and performances like today's - while understandable - can only be looked at two ways: either it's not good enough, or it's indicative of an eventual, inevitable decline because a side with our resources simply isn't good enough to compete. And if we buy into the second of those two narratives, we may as well pack up and go home now.

 

It's worth pointing out that we played another team today who have had a packed schedule, and who didn't have several top players in their line-up. Yes, we all know about their greater resources, but that's exactly the sort of advantage we're battling against. If we want to supplant Arsenal or Spurs in the Big 6 it'll have to be done with inferior resources, and - like last year- with injuries which do us a great deal more harm than theirs do to them.

 

As I see it, we have to concentrate on what we can affect, rather than what we can't. The Thomas-Albrighton switch had nothing to do with fitness, and really didn't need to wait until half time. If you were going to lump for Iheanacho, was it really necessary to also field the 34 year-old, injured Vardy alongside him for yet another pointless and debilitating 90 minutes? Couldn't we have acted on Barnes when, by the manager's own admission, he felt niggles in a pre-existing cartilage injury in the first half? I'm sure there's a good case for the defence in all of these points, but it seemed to me that Brendan got stuff wrong today, just as he did over the two legs with Slavia.

 

But that doesn't mean he isn't a fine manager. All fine managers have moments like this. I remember the shame when, as League Cup holders, our mostly first choice eleven were brutally rearranged by the mighty Grimsby. Rodgers will have to reflect on his decisions over the past week. And all of these excuses - as reasonable as they are - are going to have to be forgotten if we're to have a good season from this point on.

The criticism, weighs or swings towards certain posters, prefering players A or B doing this Or that......Preferences that wouldn t Swing majority of the Outcome

or results...Even when he admits to mistakes, Posters take it out of Context....

Losing , then Prefering an another approach, selection/formation doesn't qualify has a failure or mistake, or that other or most fans agree....!!

[winteriscoming]

2 hours ago, TJB-fox said:

Don’t think anyone is denying that. In my opinion what is not OK is people saying f’ing this f’ing that, Brendan is shit,  Brendan is a shite negative defensive coach, Brendan should’ve signed him in Jan, Brendan sets us up to lose, Brendan is a sell-out and will jump at the first opportunity to fvck us over etc etc 

All comments I’ve seen over the past few days following the last two fixtures. It’s alright criticising him in a proper manner explaining your points constructively and using evidence etc but the reactionary response from an awful lot of our supporters is beyond weird and embarrassing. That’s on all platforms too, not just Facebook/twitter/here 

Agree. 
As I’ve stated before imo he’s reached his limit with us. He won’t get a better job elsewhere. Top sides will look at his record in Europe and will look for better options. Whether that’s right or wrong only time will tell but it will help us in the long run. 

[HighPeakFox]

16 minutes ago, winteriscoming said:

Agree. 
As I’ve stated before imo he’s reached his limit with us. He won’t get a better job elsewhere. Top sides will look at his record in Europe and will look for better options. Whether that’s right or wrong only time will tell but it will help us in the long run. 

Don't you think it's possible they'll look at his record with Leicester and say 'wow, if he can do that there...'?

 

Happily, he's just described what he does as 'the best job in the world' - I'd like to think he means specifically about Leicester, but if one of the big guns came calling, who knows.

 

Which reminds me of McGhee, leaving for Wolves because they were supposedly massive. Which in turn reminds me of the great universities gag in Blackadder...