The “ I’ve got something to say, but it doesn’t warrant its own thread “ thread.

[Samilktray]

10 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Making political statements at a pop concert which (at best) don’t align with the views of the stadium owner.   

 

Surprises me that knowing the background of the performer and ownership of various stadia on the tour,  the promoter hadn’t inserted clauses into macklemore’s contract which specifically referenced this possibility.  perhaps he’d have refused to accept but at least this mess would have been avoided.   As soon as the hooha happened at the early concerts in New Jersey/New York, I read someone saying ‘good luck to Macklemore trying that in kraft’s stadium’.  It should have been dealt with before the tour had begun,  I mean you wouldn’t have kneecap or bob Vylan as a support artist on a US tour for this very reason.  Macklemore’s strong political views are not a secret.   

 

 

1 mans political statement is another mans plea for a bit of humanity 

[Jon the Hat]

28 minutes ago, Samilktray said:

What was the unacceptable behaviour from Macklemore in this instance? 

In their eyes clearly the Free Palestine stuff.

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Kraft was clearly guilty of using prostitutes.  But as with a lot of wealthy people, he found a way to avoid a guilty verdict. 
 

His quotes on Macklemore are a bit more nuanced 

 

https://www.espn.co.uk/nfl/story/_/id/49943754/patriots-kraft-says-macklemore-performance-cross-line

 

I'm not entirely sure what's nuanced about that - he seems to be a man who deals very much in absolutes when it comes to that topic - but appreciate the extra information. 

[Jon the Hat]

11 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Making political statements at a pop concert which (at best) don’t align with the views of the stadium owner.   

 

Surprises me that knowing the background of the performer and ownership of various stadia on the tour,  the promoter hadn’t inserted clauses into macklemore’s contract which specifically referenced this possibility.  perhaps he’d have refused to accept but at least this mess would have been avoided.   As soon as the hooha happened at the early concerts in New Jersey/New York, I read someone saying ‘good luck to Macklemore trying that in kraft’s stadium’.  It should have been dealt with before the tour had begun,  I mean you wouldn’t have kneecap or bob Vylan as a support artist on a US tour for this very reason.  Macklemore’s strong political views are not a secret.   

I would say they likely did and that is how they have dropped him.  What they didn't expect was the rest pulling out as a result.

[leicsmac]

But, once again, what Sheeran and his promotion team should have done, rather than all this brouhaha, is to simply tell Kraft and his associates to kick dirt, cancel the tour and take the financial hit. 

 

It would likely cost him and them much less in the long run, and would put the blame for all of this solidly where it deserves, rather than Sheeran himself becoming a rather undeserved scapegoat. 

[Jon the Hat]

7 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

But, once again, what Sheeran and his promotion team should have done, rather than all this brouhaha, is to simply tell Kraft and his associates to kick dirt, cancel the tour and take the financial hit. 

 

It would likely cost him and them much less in the long run, and would put the blame for all of this solidly where it deserves, rather than Sheeran himself becoming a rather undeserved scapegoat. 

That is your view, but he has the right to stay out of politics of it if he chooses, and indeed from the legal aspects which his management can deal with.

[st albans fox]

18 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I would say they likely did and that is how they have dropped him.  What they didn't expect was the rest pulling out as a result.

I think if that was true then it wouldn’t have required Kraft to become involved 

the promoter would have jettisoned the artist on the basis that they’d broken the terms of their contract on two separate occasions. 

 

the support acts now pulling out - we have no idea if this is genuine solidarity with Macklemore or them protecting themselves against accusations of all round complicity.

[st albans fox]

27 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I'm not entirely sure what's nuanced about that - he seems to be a man who deals very much in absolutes when it comes to that topic - but appreciate the extra information. 

When I read what he said, I found it more nuanced than I expected,   

There was some contradiction which I suspect is common with people who are used to only hearing ‘yes sir’. 

[leicsmac]

29 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

That is your view, but he has the right to stay out of politics of it if he chooses, and indeed from the legal aspects which his management can deal with.

He has that right, but in this day and age, especially on an issue like this one, people also exercise their right to not take being apolitical as an answer and act accordingly. 

 

 

10 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

When I read what he said, I found it more nuanced than I expected,   

There was some contradiction which I suspect is common with people who are used to only hearing ‘yes sir’. 

No disagreement there. 

[urban.spaceman]

Glad Sheeran is getting his comeuppance. His Game of Thrones cameo was the start of everything going to shit IMO. 

 

And I don't just mean the show. 

[Fox92]

19 hours ago, Rubbersoul said:

I’ve been consuming a lot of 9/11 content the last few days (cheerful I know) and it’s got me wondering. What would’ve been a better response from the US? Could there have been a world where it doesn’t end in the deaths of so many more? 
 

Probably not possible to answer that. 
 

 

I have consumed a lot of 9/11 content over the years. Completely nothing to do with your question but still I find watching the footage surreal.

[Brizzle Fox]

I'm just glad that I'm so old and out of touch that I haven't heard of any of these support acts.

 

Unfortunately I have heard of Ed Sheeran, so you can't have it all.

[Rubbersoul]

4 hours ago, Fox92 said:

I have consumed a lot of 9/11 content over the years. Completely nothing to do with your question but still I find watching the footage surreal.

Have you seen the documentary by the French brothers following the fire department? It’s unbelievable footage. 

[Rubbersoul]

4 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

Glad Sheeran is getting his comeuppance. His Game of Thrones cameo was the start of everything going to shit IMO. 

 

And I don't just mean the show. 

I like the theory of the Game of Thrones ending being so shit it meant the end of civilisation 

[Trav Le Bleu]

38 minutes ago, Rubbersoul said:

Have you seen the documentary by the French brothers following the fire department? It’s unbelievable footage. 

Do you see firemen carrying Trump to safety?

 

Or maybe not that kind of unbelievable.

[ajthefox]

12 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

That is your view, but he has the right to stay out of politics of it if he chooses, and indeed from the legal aspects which his management can deal with.

From a guardian article earlier today.

 

"Sheeran explained that he doesn’t use his platform for politics in order to be “a place of safety and sanctuary, to maintain diplomacy and keep conversations open”. Though this isn’t accurate: he performed at the Concert for Ukraine in 2022, signed an open letter to Theresa May about Brexit, endorsed Jeremy Corbyn and supported the equality act in the US"

 

Sheeran isn't really the problem here but the abstaining from politics bit is clearly rubbish so it isn't a great look.

[Jon the Hat]

2 hours ago, ajthefox said:

From a guardian article earlier today.

 

"Sheeran explained that he doesn’t use his platform for politics in order to be “a place of safety and sanctuary, to maintain diplomacy and keep conversations open”. Though this isn’t accurate: he performed at the Concert for Ukraine in 2022, signed an open letter to Theresa May about Brexit, endorsed Jeremy Corbyn and supported the equality act in the US"

 

Sheeran isn't really the problem here but the abstaining from politics bit is clearly rubbish so it isn't a great look.

As we know, there is politics, and then there is Israel Palestine.  Nuance gets a bit lost in the hatred and there is so much nonsense on both sides these days the facts are hard to discern even to those with the brain power to do it.

[Jon the Hat]

16 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

As we know, there is politics, and then there is Israel Palestine.  Nuance gets a bit lost in the hatred and there is so much nonsense on both sides these days the facts are hard to discern even to those with the brain power to do it.

And anyone who endorsed Jeremy Corbyn is hardly pro Israel are they?

[Jattdogg]

3 hours ago, ajthefox said:

From a guardian article earlier today.

 

"Sheeran explained that he doesn’t use his platform for politics in order to be “a place of safety and sanctuary, to maintain diplomacy and keep conversations open”. Though this isn’t accurate: he performed at the Concert for Ukraine in 2022, signed an open letter to Theresa May about Brexit, endorsed Jeremy Corbyn and supported the equality act in the US"

 

Sheeran isn't really the problem here but the abstaining from politics bit is clearly rubbish so it isn't a great look.

Sheeran comes off a bit knobish but will dry his tears in his millions and be just fine. Needs to lay low for a bit lol.

 

Let Trump and netanyahoo  own the coont title.

 

 

[Grebfromgrebland]

6 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

And anyone who endorsed Jeremy Corbyn is hardly pro Israel are they?

Not generally but Corbyn isn't anti-semitic or anti the Israeli people.

 

 

[Jon the Hat]

10 hours ago, ajthefox said:

From a guardian article earlier today.

 

"Sheeran explained that he doesn’t use his platform for politics in order to be “a place of safety and sanctuary, to maintain diplomacy and keep conversations open”. Though this isn’t accurate: he performed at the Concert for Ukraine in 2022, signed an open letter to Theresa May about Brexit, endorsed Jeremy Corbyn and supported the equality act in the US"

 

Sheeran isn't really the problem here but the abstaining from politics bit is clearly rubbish so it isn't a great look.

I think there is a difference between in your own time choosing to play a Ukraine gig, supporting travel rights for artists and supporting gay marriage and making your tour, for which your wide range of fans have paid a lot of money, in any way political.  Politics is a big turn off for many people, and not really what you want in a gig even when it is e.g. Bono the multi-millionaire telling you to support his favourite undoubtedly worthy charities.

[leicsmac]

14 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I think there is a difference between in your own time choosing to play a Ukraine gig, supporting travel rights for artists and supporting gay marriage and making your tour, for which your wide range of fans have paid a lot of money, in any way political.  Politics is a big turn off for many people, and not really what you want in a gig even when it is e.g. Bono the multi-millionaire telling you to support his favourite undoubtedly worthy charities.

Someone should have told Johnny Cash, Buffalo Springfield et al that then too, evidently. 

[Samilktray]

That Ed Sheeran statement was honking

"Macklemore asked to join my tour and I agreed", being a particular highlight 

[BenTheFox]

Ed Sheeran doesn't have to take a public stance in support of the Palestinian cause. However, I believe that he should take exception to a billionaire not only threatening to ban him from playing a stadium owned and operated by the Kraft group but who also rallied other stadium owners to withdraw from their venues being used if he didn't remove Macklemore from the line up for exercising free speech and and freedom of expression. As an artist, he should have a very clear stance on freedom of speech and artistic expression. He can do so without having to endorse the political stance of Macklemore. 

 

Let's not act like any of this is about antisemitism by the way. Kanye West has played and continues to play many of the same stadiums. If anything, a musician being banned from performing in stadiums for speaking in support of the Palestinians by billionaires, many of whom are Jewish, sets a very dangerous precedent, as it gives ammunition to genuine antisemites/Neo-Nazis as they see this as evidence of the "Jews control the world" conspiracy in action. The deliberate and very cynical conflation between Jewish people as a whole and the actions of the state of Israel is very dangerous. There are many Jewish people who have been openly critical of the actions of the state of Israel. 

Edited 6 hours ago by BenTheFox

[leicsmac]

14 minutes ago, BenTheFox said:

Ed Sheeran doesn't have to take a public stance in support of the Palestinian cause. However, I believe that he should take exception to a billionaire not only threatening to ban him from playing a stadium owned and operated by the Kraft group but who also rallied other stadium owners to withdraw from their venues being used if he didn't remove Macklemore from the line up for exercising free speech and and freedom of expression. As an artist, he should have a very clear stance on freedom of speech and artistic expression. He can do so without having to endorse the political stance of Macklemore. 

 

Let's not act like any of this is about antisemitism by the way. Kanye West has played and continues to play many of the same stadiums. If anything, a musician being banned from performing in stadiums for speaking in support of the Palestinians by billionaires, many of whom are Jewish, sets a very dangerous precedent, as it gives ammunition to genuine antisemites/Neo-Nazis as they see this as evidence of the "Jews control the world" conspiracy in action. The deliberate and very cynical conflation between Jewish people as a while and the actions of the state of Israel is very dangerous. There are many Jewish people who have been openly critical of the actions of the state of Israel. 

That conflation has been blatantly and nefariously weaponised by those who want to continue doing harm for their own horrible self interest for a while now, yes. 

 

In the face of that, the distinction needs to continue be made by people who are actually interested in peace (and not the kind of peace that a graveyard brings) at every possible opportunity.