The state of the game

[Halifax Fox]

I can’t ever remember being so disillusioned with football as I feel just now. 

Having followed the Foxes ever since the Matt Gillies era, I’ve become more than used to the ebb and flow of the highs and lows we all experience as supporters. However, I can’t think of a time when the administration of the game has seemed so inept, so inept that we have to have updates, adjustments and clarification of events and the interpretation of the laws of the game as we go along.

 

I was fully in favour of the introduction of VAR, but it’s quite obvious that the full implications of it were never fully realised by the powers that be, nor the method trialled properly. We have lines drawn on our screens that take minutes to differentiate and are supposed to show offside. Not once have I seen any reference to the chosen freeze frame being synchronised with the pass that created the movement in question. I don’t believe that the exact time of the ball leaving a player’s foot can be measured so accurately that it can be linked to millimetres difference in the positions of two players within the context of a game. The offside law and its interpretation have to be changed.

 

When will referees start to give fouls without a player having to collapse writhing to the floor. Last night’s games saw one player ‘win’ a penalty having been touched by a force that wouldn’t have floored my two year old grandson. Another player struggling (dare I say manfully?) and managing to stay on his feet under a far heavier challenge got nothing. The referees have encouraged diving with their ineptitude and inconsistencies and don’t seem able to interpret players’ actions and intentions even when able to have another look on a pitch side monitor. 
 

Which now brings me to the actions of players. One player ‘wins’ a penalty. Another is sent off whilst appearing to try to avoid contact with the aforementioned player. I fully appreciate that intent does not come into judging whether a foul is committed but how some players can look themselves in the mirror is beyond me. Some must have no self respect. Players constantly appealing for the throw-in every time it goes out irrespective of whom it last touched is another irritation. The so called professional foul, taking one for the team should surely merit more than a yellow card if a likely counterattack is stopped in its tracks.

 

Last night’s games left me frustrated that once again the ex-professionals, the pundits, were all saying similar things to what lots are saying so many times on this forum and I’m sure on others too, and nothing changes.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

VAR will kill the live enjoyment of the sport, that is a fact.

[m4DD0gg]

football is like world of warcraft...........it used to be good

[Dan LCFC]

It really is pathetic. The introduction of VAR has had so many more negatives than positives, more than anything it's increased the over scrutiny of refereeing decisions to the point it's the talking point of what feels like more games than it isn't. I do think in terms of the Premier League itself, whatever the opposite of halcyon days are, this is it. No fans at games combined with this rubbish and I do just find myself watching fewer and fewer games. I hope it gets better.

[Fox92]

About time players and managers came out criticising it in interviews and not just on social media.

 

Also about time fans stopped taking the piss out of other clubs decisions. We should all be united.

 

It's not as if decisions have got better. But like I've always said it's still a shit referee but this time behind a screen.

 

It's killing the excitement.

[Frank Large's Black Book]

Totally agree with sentiment of the OP (I'm a Matt Gillies man too).  We were almost universally in favour of VAR (subject to certain caveats) but it is now become an instrument of ridicule.  Refs do not explain themselves and make completely illogical decisions.  Afraid it's beyond me. 

 

A start would be to hear the conversations going on between ref and VAR officials.  Oh, and players to stop cheating

 

Has it been explained anywhere how borderline offsides (ie by the flapping of a shirt cuff) can be given when the lines we are shown are about the width of the ball.  Do the VAR officials see it in more detail?

[SemperEadem]

Just now, Fox92 said:

About time players and managers came out criticising it in interviews and not just on social media.

 

Also about time fans stopped taking the piss out of other clubs decisions. We should all be united.

 

It's not as if decisions have got better. But like I've always said it's still a shit referee but this time behind a screen.

 

It's killing the excitement.

This

[Dahnsouff]

VAR is a symptom, an enabler, even worse, a distraction. It is money that is the great villain in this, it has overridden its core element of competition- as we see in the wider world, as we see in football, as we see in other sports. The entitled few reap their rewards, their players, their princes, it is they who have their benefits through seemingly questionable leniency and decisions, theirs behaviours, their traditions in built or coached.

 

Disclaimer: Just watched Capitalism on Netflix so feeling a bit tetchy 

[The Prince]

VAR has not only exposed the inadequacy of our refs but just as damming, exposed the lunacy of the rule makers. Throwing in caveats on offsides such as ‘when the player makes an active attempt to play the ball’. 
 

The players have taken advantage of such ineptitude to further their teams cause. Possibly worse is that the pundits don’t call the players out for such contempt. Initiating contact before going down, pretending you’ve been caught in the face. Barely a comment of condemnation to be seen!

[Fightforever]

VAR isn't the problem it's the people behind it. PGMOL needs to be restructured from the ground up. There aren't any decent refs in the PL anymore.

Edited 3 February 2021 by Fightforever

[Chocolate Teapot]

24 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

VAR will kill the live enjoyment of the sport, that is a fact.

It works fine in Europe, although I'm not a fan. Its the refs over here - they're absolutely appalling.

Edited 3 February 2021 by Chocolate Teapot

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

It works fine in Europe, although I'm not a fan. Its the refs over here - they're absolutely appalling.

...alternate take. There is so much more money in the game here than in Europe. 

[Fox seen in Norwich]

Last nights Man Utd game and the 8th (I think) where martial dived and got bednerek sent off.. is the reason players do dive.. they get penalties and players sent off. Clear for all that martial dived.. he should have been sent off which is the only way stop people diving/clasping legs 

 

it’s not VAR that’s the problem, it’s interpretation of what is a foul. Any minor touch and it’s a pen, but on many occasions not enough to trip a player.. especially when they’re going down themselves

[Guest ttfn]

It doesn’t help that with no fans in the stadiums the game has become a totally televisual experience for every supporter.

 

I’m as disengaged as I’ve ever been. Part of it is age but everything about the current state of affairs stinks, from selectively officious VAR to Project Big Picture to the more pervasive issue that my whole experience of the game now boils down to watching 90 minutes of football on my own. I don’t tune in for the build up or the half-time or post-match analysis. I’m not interested in listening to the half-hearted opinions of experts who know less about the teams on display than 90% of the people on this forum.

Edited 3 February 2021 by ttfn

[HighPeakFox]

Mike Dean was absolutely shocking last night - VAR has at least exposed him in that sense. Sadly, he will not be punished, and probably not even reprimanded.

[Dan LCFC]

VAR is the problem by the way. That's not to say the officials aren't inept, and VAR has definitely gone a way to exposing this beyond any reasonable doubt, but it is the problem. This will continue to be the case no matter what they do with it. When players and fans are losing the instinct to celebrate a goal, that is a price absolutely not worth paying, it's the very fabric of the sport itself and it's being repeatedly ruined. 

[Guest ttfn]

Whilst I’m at it I’ll throw in the absolutely needless government meddling and pandering from the Premier League to demonstrably nonsensical safety precautions like not celebrating goals as a team and disinfecting the ball when it goes out of play.

[Le Renard]

I would argue that VAR used correctly is a benefit, but the people using it are making the mistakes.  Over the years football fans have been calling for more transparency with decisions that were affecting the game, a dodgy penalty or a sending off, which seemed to benefit the big clubs more than others.  Now we have a system that could be used to benefit the game, but alas we still have the problem of poor refs who are too arrogant to admit the got it wrong or a VAR official who hasn't got a clue.  Lets be honest the Ref's in the UK are of a poor quality who can't run, but just stay in the middle of the pitch like John Moss, my children and I just can't stop laughing when he's trying to run around the pitch, he runs like he's stuck in mud!  Mike Dean....what can you say ******?

[Sampson]

6 minutes ago, Fox seen in Norwich said:

Last nights Man Utd game and the 8th (I think) where martial dived and got bednerek sent off.. is the reason players do dive.. they get penalties and players sent off. Clear for all that martial dived.. he should have been sent off which is the only way stop people diving/clasping legs 

 

it’s not VAR that’s the problem, it’s interpretation of what is a foul. Any minor touch and it’s a pen, but on many occasions not enough to trip a player.. especially when they’re going down themselves

But VAR by definition is just shifting the subjective desicion from one party to another. And while doing it, stops the game for 5 minutes and kills the flow of the game and the enjoyment of the big moments.

 

VAR definitely *is* the problem. Regardless of how good or not the officials are, you're ultimately shifting one subjective desicion to another - handball, red cards and penalties have always been very contentious and subjective, it's nothing to do with the new rules or whatever. But what VAR does is kill the flow of the game solely to swap one subjective decision for another.

 

It's a gimmick for tv.

[Corky]

VAR was brought in to eliminate howlers such as hugely offside goals and penalties being given when somebody was hit in the face by the ball and not the hand. The issue is that subjective calls are still subjective and one bloke looking at a screen, not some technological genius robot. Then you've got the fact that the laws for offside, for example, were introduced to stop people goal hanging twenty yards behind the last defender and need to be applied to every goal. 

 

I mean, how can a length of an attacker's sleeve being marginally ahead of a defender's arse give that player an advantage? Pre-VAR, they'd have had a screenshot or freeze frame, said he's on and we all move on, really.

 

I didn't want VAR because bad decisions are part of it, we both benefit and lose out and we do move on, eventually. They wanted the whole package, everything to be just right, when it was clearly never going to be. Tribalism will always be in football, people wanting to gain advantages fair or unfair for their own team- you can't "clean up" an unclean sport.

[Chocolate Teapot]

Im very much of the same opinion.

 

the TV coverage is terrible, the big club narrative is getting worse and ir

ts getting harder and harder to compete.

 

VAR is a shambles. I hate not being able to go to games. We need fans back ASAP. The dickheads on twitter and the United fans from Kent must be loving this. 

[yorkie1999]

VAR might be brilliant at what it does, but whatever they do to improve it, nobody wants it. It ruins a free flowing, spontaneous game. Go back to linesmen giving the offside decisions and the ref giving handballs and penalties, i bet there were less contention incidents and everyone walked away from the game happy, even though there would be the argument over a dodgy offside or goal, that was part of the fun, now it's just boring. 

  One thing though, If there was corruption within the game and results were able to be manipulated, VAR is the ideal platform, it relies on the integrity of a few guys possibly 100 miles away from the game with no questions about a decision.

Edited 3 February 2021 by yorkie1999

[Chocolate Teapot]

8 minutes ago, ttfn said:

Whilst I’m at it I’ll throw in the absolutely needless government meddling and pandering from the Premier League to demonstrably nonsensical safety precautions like not celebrating goals as a team and disinfecting the ball when it goes out of play.

Which two weeks later isn't an issue. 

[David Guiza]

I personally find the overconsumption of football far more of a killer than VAR. I'm far from a fan of VAR, but it can be tweaked and ultimately will be. Football is far more for the TV viewer, even before the pandemic, than it is the supporters in the ground. 

 

One of the positives if/when we eventually return to the 2nd tier would be 3pm Saturday kick offs. 

[Fox seen in Norwich]

8 minutes ago, Sampson said:

But VAR by definition is just shifting the subjective desicion from one party to another. And while doing it, stops the game for 5 minutes and kills the flow of the game and the enjoyment of the big moments.

 

VAR definitely *is* the problem. Regardless of how good or not the officials are, you're ultimately shifting one subjective desicion to another - handball, red cards and penalties have always been very contentious and subjective, it's nothing to do with the new rules or whatever. But what VAR does is kill the flow of the game solely to swap one subjective decision for another.

 

It's a gimmick for tv.

I was referring to the OP about the specific penalties last night, rather than a general view of VAR. 

To re-phrase my comment would be to say stop players diving you stop more “interpretation”. Harsher punishments for diving and Martial doesn’t do what he did

 

As for your comment about VAR disrupting the flow, agree, I think they should do it only on appeal. Each team gets 2 appeals a game. If the appeal is upheld (ref decision overturned by VAR) then you keep your quoted of appeals. Would create fewer occasions when the flow be stopped.. ala Tennis

Edited 3 February 2021 by Fox seen in Norwich