The state of the game

[RowlattsFox]

VAR has got rid of the obvious offsides, I can't remember how often they happened now, but that has to be a positive. Debate is only ever about the stupidly tight calls that "don't look offside" and its finding offsides that no-one would even look at. 

 

Everything else in football is subjective and open to interpretation/or abuse, and its different to other sports that use similar video technology. 

 

 

[Lambert09]

When you hear the chairman of the premier league make comments about how one teams success is a benefit to the league, then look at the baffling decisions that go that particular clubs direction... it’s hard to see the point in football anymore. 

Edited 3 February 2021 by Lambert09

[Oxfordfox83]

- Scrap live VAR.

 

- after each game, a panel of current and immediate past managers goes through each foul, and checks for diving/making meals of a nothing foul

 

- each time a player is found to have dived, he is banned for a month. 3 making meals of minor contact in a 2 month period = one dive = banned for a month.

 

- anyone who is penalised for what is later found to be a dive gets a free swing at the diver’s junk, no repercussions.

 

That would sort football for good, and the only cost would be Sadio Mane’s career and testicles

[Sol thewall Bamba]

14 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Care to elaborate a tad? 

 

The game has to have laws and rules and agreed conventions on how to interpret them. It's reductionist thinking to believe, that it's as simple as "oh why don't they just sort it out!" 

It's just a massive post about VAR. All we do at the moment is talk about VAR. Every weekend the talking points are the "contentious" (shit) decisions that have been made. 

[nnfox]

For me, the rules around VAR allow too much of its use open for interpretation.  What I'd like to see...

 

VAR used to notify the referee of something that hasn't been seen and then deal with it together.

 

Referees to consult the pitch side TV and for them to make the decision more often, but there should be rules around the ref reviewing the footage.  For example, for a penalty decision, VAR officials should select the best three camera angles in their opinion.  The ref then gets to view it twice from each angle in real time and then makes a decision.  Having then seen it 7 times in total, if he's still unsure then let it go.  No more of these 30 times frame by frame instances.

 

Finally, offside.  Until the technology is in place to determine exactly when the ball was played, then pick the frame that you want to examine, then go forwards and backwards a frame, which covers what? a tenth of a second.  If the attacker is onside in any of the three frames, then it's onside.  Not perfect, but better than the current system imo.

[Dahnsouff]

This thread turned into another VAR thread, might start a The state of the thread thread. 

[davieG]

2 hours ago, Halifax Fox said:

Last night’s games left me frustrated that once again the ex-professionals, the pundits, were all saying similar things to what lots are saying so many times on this forum and I’m sure on others too, and nothing changes.

I agree with all of that except this last line as for me the pundits are partly to blame, they're the ones that continually say things like 'there was contact, took one for the team' seemingly legitimising the actions of players on the pitch. As I said in the PL thread it's probably because they were either all guilty of doing the same or they've managed teams and encouraged it or certainly haven't discouraged it.

 

I find it difficult to recall any condemnation by these pundits.

[shailen]

Not sure if this is legit, but on last night 

 

Mark Halsey ( Ex. Premier league referee) 

 

"I have been in that situation, when I have seen an incident and been told to say I haven’t seen it, we’ve been told to give a certain amount of corners, or throw ins, fouls, bookings etc. The Premier League is rife with with spot fixing and bias towards certain clubs. Every referee in the Premier league could be infront of a court one day soon."

[Guest SO1]

5 minutes ago, shailen said:

Not sure if this is legit, but on last night 

 

Mark Halsey ( Ex. Premier league referee) 

 

"I have been in that situation, when I have seen an incident and been told to say I haven’t seen it, we’ve been told to give a certain amount of corners, or throw ins, fouls, bookings etc. The Premier League is rife with with spot fixing and bias towards certain clubs. Every referee in the Premier league could be infront of a court one day soon."

Could you be more specific as to where that was? That's a sport killer. Hope he has good bodyguards with the amount of money involved.

[LCFCCHRIS]

6 minutes ago, SO1 said:

Could you be more specific as to where that was? That's a sport killer. Hope he has good bodyguards with the amount of money involved.

Can't find the full quote apart from mainly on forums but this includes the first part: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/mark-halsey-referee-pgmol-fa-claims-accusations-lie-sergio-aguero-manchester-city-united-a7224916.html%3famp

[jmono84]

VAR ain’t bothered me that much, it’s more the cheating culture which a ‘good’ footballer has to have now. Refs in England are crap, the best ref this year was the woman ref in one of our Europe league, I was genuinely shocked by the amount of times a player fell over after a challenge and I was expecting a soft free kick but she indicated play on. Was a breath of fresh air and I hope she continues like that.

 

The likes of Fernandes and Grealish cheating several times a game is what ruins it for me.

[Ian Nacho]

I blame the referees for constant soft free kicks. If players they’re going to get free kicks for going down easy they’re going to do it. If referees just decided to stop giving soft free kicks, it’d soon stop. 

[whoareyaaa]

we should employ refs from different countrys basically no english refs that would cut all the bullshit out I reckon

[Ian Nacho]

There’s too many referees just officiate the game by making the ‘easiest decision’. Chris Kavanagh is the absolute worst for it. Slight touch in the back? Free kick. Attacking player presses wins the ball and the defender falls over? Free kick. They talk about the lack of training/coaching referees have but you can’t coach bottle. For example, that Mané penalty the other year which Kavanagh gave. It was the easy thing to do at Anfield. Had it been at the opposite end and a Leicester player had been slightly brushed, there’s no chance that gets given in front of 50,000 Liverpool fans. The problem is the referees know their sh*t and referee the game with no confidence. 

[UHDrive]

You may as well get rid of referees and replace them with micro sensors all over players bodies so as to be full proof with body contact issues. Then the linespeople can deal with free kicks, corners and throw-ins until they become corrupt too.

[Halifax Fox]

20 minutes ago, jmono84 said:

VAR ain’t bothered me that much, it’s more the cheating culture which a ‘good’ footballer has to have now. Refs in England are crap, the best ref this year was the woman ref in one of our Europe league, I was genuinely shocked by the amount of times a player fell over after a challenge and I was expecting a soft free kick but she indicated play on. Was a breath of fresh air and I hope she continues like that.

 

The likes of Fernandes and Grealish cheating several times a game is what ruins it for me.

Absolutely agree about best refereeing this season, and for a long time prior to that too, Stéphanie Frappart from France. Absolutely excellent in the Europa fixture, let the game flow and not influenced by any play acting. Vive La France 🇫🇷 

[turlo]

1 hour ago, nnfox said:

For me, the rules around VAR allow too much of its use open for interpretation.  What I'd like to see...

 

VAR used to notify the referee of something that hasn't been seen and then deal with it together.

 

Referees to consult the pitch side TV and for them to make the decision more often, but there should be rules around the ref reviewing the footage.  For example, for a penalty decision, VAR officials should select the best three camera angles in their opinion.  The ref then gets to view it twice from each angle in real time and then makes a decision.  Having then seen it 7 times in total, if he's still unsure then let it go.  No more of these 30 times frame by frame instances.

 

Finally, offside.  Until the technology is in place to determine exactly when the ball was played, then pick the frame that you want to examine, then go forwards and backwards a frame, which covers what? a tenth of a second.  If the attacker is onside in any of the three frames, then it's onside.  Not perfect, but better than the current system imo.

They're implementing a margin of error rule in the Dutch League, where marginal offsides (less than 10cm) are reverted to the refs original decision, similar to the umpires call rule for LBWs in cricket. 

Edited 3 February 2021 by turlo

[Stadt]

When football is back, mass action is needed from fans. The relief of being back is obviously going to mean high spirits but could you imagine how powerful it'd be if after the first time VAR flashed up on the screen everybody walked out?

[sdb]

I actually felt this way in the 14-15 season. Driving across the country watching us lose to the big boys week in, week out. Months later we started the greatest escape and the year after was the best we'll ever know.

 

Nothing beats football, however much the powers that be try to ruin it. Last night was bleak, but it'll end up getting better eventually, and nothing beats the addiction of dismantling Chelsea and Spurs one week, before submitting to Leeds and Fulham the next...

[leicesterseddon]

3 hours ago, Stadt said:

When football is back, mass action is needed from fans. The relief of being back is obviously going to mean high spirits but could you imagine how powerful it'd be if after the first time VAR flashed up on the screen everybody walked out?

Not going to happen is it though?

 

There are enough fans that want it, or think it’s not “the problem”, etc for it to stay in some form 

[David Guiza]

21 hours ago, ParkerPen said:

I get the sentiment but I remember the season we got promoted from the championship we barely had any Saturday 3pm kick offs due to games moved for TV ! 

That's true, same happened with Leeds for years.

 

Even outside of attending in person, there's something exciting about numerous games kicking off at the same time and seeing how they develop etc. I couldn't believe there were actually a massive three PL 3pm kick offs on Saturday, incredible. 

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but the percentage of fans watching 2/3 games a night midweek and 4/5 games a day at the weekend must be pretty small. There really is such a thing as too much of a good thing. 

[Halifax Fox]

So there we have it!

 

Southampton’s Jan Bednarek’s red card has been rescinded. The judgement of the independent regulatory commission was that this was a wrong decision and the commission has quite rightly in my opinion upheld Southampton‘s appeal.

 

But I feel that this still leaves a lot of unanswered questions. How on earth did the referee, and indeed the video assistant referee, arrive at the decision to send him off in the first place?

 

The mistake was bad enough in real time, but when the referee then watches reruns of the incident on the touchline monitor and sticks by his decision to award a penalty and send off the Southampton player then ridiculous descends into farcical.

 

Honest mistake? Arrogance? Incompetence? Intransigence? Corruption? Bias? Favouritism?

 

Whilst I’m sure we can discount several of these thoughts how can there possibly have been any mistake when using the video evidence that we all saw clearly on our screens. this from an experienced referee reportedly paid £200,000 a year plus a £1500 fee per game?

 

As always, information to supporters is both limited and given in very bland and broad terms. Are we just moving on from these mistakes with no action regarding the referee and video assistant in question? At the end of the season I hope that we don’t lose out on goal difference by one goal to MU!

 

One report suggests that Manchester United’s Martial was saying it wasn’t a foul even as Bednarek left the field which of course begs another question. In that case how come Martial fell over in the way he did or even why did he fall over at all? Perhaps therein lies the fundamental problem. If players play honestly it doesn’t put the referee in a position to make these mistakes.

 

The referee for our game against Fulham, Robert Jones, I thought had a decent enough game, but perhaps that was in part down to the two teams involved actually playing the game in decent spirit without too much playacting.

 

José Mourinho complains that the referee got it wrong when awarding a penalty to Chelsea last night. I wonder if he instructs his own players to play in a way that helps the referee?

 

In my post at the start of this thread I spoke of some of the reasons for my disillusionment with football just now. Despite the rescinded red card I have to say that I’m not any less frustrated or disillusioned.
 

COYF 🦊

 

 

[Thefox81]

6 minutes ago, Halifax Fox said:

So there we have it!

 

Southampton’s Jan Bednarek’s red card has been rescinded. The judgement of the independent regulatory commission was that this was a wrong decision and the commission has quite rightly in my opinion upheld Southampton‘s appeal.

 

But I feel that this still leaves a lot of unanswered questions. How on earth did the referee, and indeed the video assistant referee, arrive at the decision to send him off in the first place?

 

The mistake was bad enough in real time, but when the referee then watches reruns of the incident on the touchline monitor and sticks by his decision to award a penalty and send off the Southampton player then ridiculous descends into farcical.

 

Honest mistake? Arrogance? Incompetence? Intransigence? Corruption? Bias? Favouritism?

 

Whilst I’m sure we can discount several of these thoughts how can there possibly have been any mistake when using the video evidence that we all saw clearly on our screens. this from an experienced referee reportedly paid £200,000 a year plus a £1500 fee per game?

 

As always, information to supporters is both limited and given in very bland and broad terms. Are we just moving on from these mistakes with no action regarding the referee and video assistant in question? At the end of the season I hope that we don’t lose out on goal difference by one goal to MU!

 

One report suggests that Manchester United’s Martial was saying it wasn’t a foul even as Bednarek left the field which of course begs another question. In that case how come Martial fell over in the way he did or even why did he fall over at all? Perhaps therein lies the fundamental problem. If players play honestly it doesn’t put the referee in a position to make these mistakes.

 

The referee for our game against Fulham, Robert Jones, I thought had a decent enough game, but perhaps that was in part down to the two teams involved actually playing the game in decent spirit without too much playacting.

 

José Mourinho complains that the referee got it wrong when awarding a penalty to Chelsea last night. I wonder if he instructs his own players to play in a way that helps the referee?

 

In my post at the start of this thread I spoke of some of the reasons for my disillusionment with football just now. Despite the rescinded red card I have to say that I’m not any less frustrated or disillusioned.
 

COYF 🦊

 

 

Mike Dean did not review the incident on the pitchside monitor. He went to the pitchside monitor to look at himself in super slow mo thats all.

Edited 5 February 2021 by Thefox81

[Foxy-Lady]

On 03/02/2021 at 12:31, Halifax Fox said:

 

Which now brings me to the actions of players.  I fully appreciate that intent does not come into judging whether a foul is committed.... but The so called professional foul, taking one for the team should surely merit more than a yellow card if a likely counterattack is stopped in its tracks.

 

 

Great OP by the way @Halifax Fox......agree with all your sentiments but this point particularly resonated with me as i was saying exact same thing to my son last night about how the advantage is immediately taken away from the attacking team as the defending team are all allowed to regain their shape....just for a simple free-kick which may probably result in NO advantage whatsoever.

 

Introducing a 3rd type of card would overcomplicate and already difficult job for refs but i wonder if there were a 5 min sin-bin penalty introduced for "professional fouls" which prevent a clear advantage being gained? If players got a 5 min sin-bin, the attacking team would still maintain the advantage they previously had and at best....it might force players to think twice about doing it!

[Grebfromgrebland]

Why not just shoot anyone who dives?