splinterdream Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 5 minutes ago, King of Gipsy Lane said: No he feels the knee isn’t enough !!! He wants more direct action he believes taking the knee limits the strength of response that black players should give to racists, he wants harsher penalties for the likes of those that’s boo’d today I haven't heard him say that, i just heard him say that he feels the message is lost in that gesture. In my opinion if people disagree with something and you silence that disagreement you make the situation worse, you can't force people what to think and you can't make assumptions on what they think, but for me i understand that the players think it's doing something good, so I'll support it, despite the fact i don't think Britain has a problem with racism although there are racist within it, racists in all communities 2
5waller5 Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 13 minutes ago, Mark_w said: Don't do that. Respond to my previous post, we don't have to see eye to eye by the end of it. Nah, you’re ok thanks. I love football and LCFC and the escapism from this kind of rubbish. I rarely visit social media sites because of the polarisation of views in the modern day - you either agree with BLM organisation or you’re racist is where this discussion leads. It’s black/white thinking and ignores so many possibilities in the pursuit of being right / self-righteous. Foxestalk is a nice politics free zone, I’ve made the error of participating in a conversation that risks damaging that dynamic, and when you recognise a mistake then my advice to myself is always; stop doing it!
Guest Bert Fill Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 8 minutes ago, Blue-fox said: This doesn’t happen in the UK does it though really? Yes, it does. Nowhere near as often, and rarely quite as blatantly, as in the US, but yes, it does.
splinterdream Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 4 minutes ago, King of Gipsy Lane said: He was a confirmed racist, slaughtered millions in India. but his statue should remain so we can teach our children that his evil deeds were not corrected by any good deeds please Stop denying history; its the tool racist and xenophobic people use to justify their belief structures most people were by todays standards racist in that time, and if you are talking about the beghali famine, that is disputed by academics
NasPb Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 3 minutes ago, 5waller5 said: Nah, you’re ok thanks. I love football and LCFC and the escapism from this kind of rubbish. I rarely visit social media sites because of the polarisation of views in the modern day - you either agree with BLM organisation or you’re racist is where this discussion leads. It’s black/white thinking and ignores so many possibilities in the pursuit of being right / self-righteous. Foxestalk is a nice politics free zone, I’ve made the error of participating in a conversation that risks damaging that dynamic, and when you recognise a mistake then my advice to myself is always; stop doing it! What organization? 😂
BigGibbo Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 Who's booing it and why? I don't get it. What's to boo?
Blue-fox Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 Just now, Bert Fill said: 1 minute ago, Bert Fill said: I’m not muddling anything up, thanks for the patronising tone. More black people are killed by police in the US, but it happens here too. 1
Izzy Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 3 minutes ago, 5waller5 said: Foxestalk is a nice politics free zone, I take it you don't frequent Gen Chat that much? 1 1
Guest Bert Fill Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 Just now, BigGibbo said: Who's booing it and why? I don't get it. What's to boo? From what I’ve learned here today the booing is by people who are frustrated at the ineffectiveness of taking the knee in the battle against racism...
Mark_w Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 Just now, splinterdream said: most people were by todays standards racist in that time, and if you are talking about the beghali famine, that is disputed by academics Not everyone in the 1930s/40s was racist by our standards and Churchill wasn't just racist by our standards, he was racist by any standards. 3
LCFCbwoi Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 Wolves fan booed the taking of the knee before the game and then this happened? Let’s not act as if things are getting any better and the anti racist message shouldn’t be amplified even more. Unless the countries wants to step up and face it’s problems then we’re never going to see any change? 1
theessexfox Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 5 minutes ago, splinterdream said: I haven't heard him say that, i just heard him say that he feels the message is lost in that gesture. In my opinion if people disagree with something and you silence that disagreement you make the situation worse, you can't force people what to think and you can't make assumptions on what they think, but for me i understand that the players think it's doing something good, so I'll support it, despite the fact i don't think Britain has a problem with racism although there are racist within it, racists in all communities It really doesn't take that much effort to find shedloads of evidence to the contrary, does it?
Blue-fox Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 5 minutes ago, Mark_w said: Well that's not what I'm doing. I outlined my reason for opposition to him, because he was a racist and imperialist and I strongly disagree with almost everything he stood for. I was just following on from the way the conversation flowed. So do you believe that is was right to deface his statue? And was it also right to burn the British flag?
LCFCbwoi Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 7 minutes ago, Blue-fox said: I believe they would be Of course they wouldn’t, you give people too much respect
splinterdream Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 5 minutes ago, Bert Fill said: I’m not muddling anything up, thanks for the patronising tone. More black people are killed by police in the US, but it happens here too. I've seen different arguments regarding the battles in the US, but I'm sorry British black people are not being killed by police in the UK 1
NasPb Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 (edited) I think they should stop doing the knee not because it's offensive rather because of what zaha has said. It basically means nothing. Action is a lot better than words or little gestures. Our very own Daniel amartey was receiving racist abuse from Chelsea fans and, did something happen? No. Slavia prague got a slap on the rist as well. This goes for all of these types of things as well. Regardless if it's Qatar, saudí Arabia and others that for example have bombed Yemen to the ground and caused a brutal genocide with British and western arms, or Israel with their crimes against humanity or hell, even Amazon and their massive exploitation, either there needs to be legit action through boycotts (which can achieve something and other direct forms of action and real punishment) or nothing will change. It's very much a liberal thing. Nice cute gestures but, when it comes time to act, uefa, the premier league, etc couldn't care less. Or what about Bulgaria, that literally got away with racial abuse and nothing happened literally against England? This is what i mean. Who cares about a gesture. What matters is action. And until there's action a gesture is meaningless. Let's also not be utopian or foolish, all segments of society have to do with politics. There's no "politics" free zone. Wake up and smell the coffee. For example, i think it's completely fair to criticise the fact that Qatar, uae, Russia, China, and Saudi Arabia have used the sport to hide their crimes against humanity in the world. Shall i not mention it then? And this goes for any message in football. Gestures are only useful when things are actually done at the grassroots level and at all levels to take out the problem. Just look at uefa.. No to racism... But yes to Bulgarian racial abuse. Time to get real and act. Edited 23 May 2021 by NasPb
The People's Hero Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 Its bloody sad that taking the knee is even required. I 100% back it as a gesture and I believe it DOES keep these things in our mind. Sport and society SHOULD be 100% free of racism, sexism, homophobia etc; but it isn't. Efforts must continue to improve it. Even if we cannot get to a utopian position, we MUST strive for improvement. 2
Mark_w Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 Just now, Blue-fox said: So do you believe that is was right to deface his statue? And was it also right to burn the British flag? I don't think either were right or wrong. I don't really care. I wish the statue wasn't there but I wouldn't deface it myself. Nor do I appreciate the British flag but I wouldn't burn it. I don't care that people do/did though, we have much bigger problems as a society. Like institutional racism that I think is far more deserving of our time, attention and efforts than some yobs scribbling on a statue or burning some fabric. 1
Guest Bert Fill Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 2 minutes ago, Blue-fox said: Forgive me (I’m struggling to remember who’s saying what on here), but are you posting this to show that more white people are killed by police or that a wildly disproportionate number of black people are?
ARM1968 Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 Trouble with trying to discuss this topic is the virtue signalling starts to drown out everything else. You can’t have opinions because that makes you racist. Racism will never disappear until we all stop seeing colour and start just seeing people. We are certainly not all the same, but we are all a part of humanity. Still, it suits some to keep the division going. I’d rather we all saw it for what it is, shrugged it off and got on with being us, just people. 2
The People's Hero Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 1 minute ago, The People's Hero said: Its bloody sad that taking the knee is even required. I 100% back it as a gesture and I believe it DOES keep these things in our mind. Sport and society SHOULD be 100% free of racism, sexism, homophobia etc; but it isn't. Efforts must continue to improve it. Even if we cannot get to a utopian position, we MUST strive for improvement. Before anyone says.. what about heightism etc etc etc; I believe all discrimination should be tackled; but we do need to focus on the biggest problem areas first.
LCFCbwoi Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 7 minutes ago, splinterdream said: I haven't heard him say that, i just heard him say that he feels the message is lost in that gesture. In my opinion if people disagree with something and you silence that disagreement you make the situation worse, you can't force people what to think and you can't make assumptions on what they think, but for me i understand that the players think it's doing something good, so I'll support it, despite the fact i don't think Britain has a problem with racism although there are racist within it, racists in all communities Maybe go out into that city where white people are the ‘minority’ and the team you support, and see if Britain has a problem with racism. You’re incredibly naive if you don’t think their is one and it’s probably best to speak to people with more experience on the issue.
BigGibbo Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 2 minutes ago, Bert Fill said: From what I’ve learned here today the booing is by people who are frustrated at the ineffectiveness of taking the knee in the battle against racism... Huh? Well by that logic we should also boo Children in Need for not being effective enough at eradicating child poverty 🙈
The People's Hero Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 1 minute ago, ARM1968 said: Trouble with trying to discuss this topic is the virtue signalling starts to drown out everything else. You can’t have opinions because that makes you racist. Racism will never disappear until we all stop seeing colour and start just seeing people. We are certainly not all the same, but we are all a part of humanity. Still, it suits some to keep the division going. I’d rather we all saw it for what it is, shrugged it off and got on with being us, just people. Division is useful, for the powerful. Virtue signalling remains immensely popular. Both are just a self perpetuating cycle of well meaning words but no real action.
Mark_w Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 Just now, ARM1968 said: Still, it suits some to keep the division going. I’d rather we all saw it for what it is, shrugged it off and got on with being us, just people. It must be nice to be in a position to shrug it off and to care so little that you can.
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