5waller5 Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 8 minutes ago, Freeman's Wharfer said: There was booing at Wembley too. It’s too simple to just say those who are booing are racist. There’s probably a myriad of reasons for those who boo. Some will be racist, yes, but some may be objecting to the politicisation of football. Or because they associate it with the BLM organisation. Or because they’re fed up of having messages pushed on them when they just want to go to the football and forget about the stresses and strains of daily life. Or because they think it’s futile and an empty gesture that detracts from anything of meaningful action being taken. Or because they feel that they’re being told that them just living a good honest life where they don’t racially abuse anyone in their day-to-day is no longer enough. I said exactly the same when the Millwall fans got condemned. If you want to give people the right to take a knee, you have to give people the right to react to it however they choose to. I also said at the time of the Millwall fans getting the stick that there were probably a large proportion of those who booed that were disaffected, white, working-class men who themselves have had inequality of opportunity when it comes to things such as education and job opportunities etc. A group that for the past year has been told they should assume white guilt, they’re privileged, they’re the problem. I have not, and would not, boo the gesture myself. But the fact it’s happening is more nuanced than many of you are willing to understand and throwing blanket accusations of racism don’t get us anywhere. Perfect summary and well written. Couldn't have put it better!
splinterdream Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 2 minutes ago, King of Gipsy Lane said: They sniggered but !! Don’t kid yourself likes most clubs in England we have a huge amount of poorly educated inarticulate right leaning white racists in our stands whats wrong with being right leaning? Most of the Country is right leaning. you understand people of other skin colours are also racist and people of other skin colours also disagree with the BLM movement?
Cadno'r Cymoedd Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, 5waller5 said: Intelligent debate. Not from you sadly judging by the ignorant guff you spouted. Haven't the time or inclination to debate over ill informed twaddle Edited 23 May 2021 by Cadno'r Cymoedd
Popular Post RonnieTodger Posted 23 May 2021 Popular Post Posted 23 May 2021 Fancy waiting 14 months to see your team live, having been deprived of the opportunity to watch them lift the FA Cup at Wembley, but in the knowledge they’re fighting for a place in the Champions League. They’re against the odds but need your support to beat what is still a talented Spurs side. One second after kick off, they drop to one knee and you boo. Thick Neanderthal cretins. 15 1
Larry_LCFC Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 Whilst I fully support the idea that "black lives matter" and the anti-racism message, I cannot support BLM. It is ultimately a political organisation that hold some pretty extreme views and ideas that have no place in football. Alot of them aren't even relevant to Britain. Take the knee for Kick It Out or just a stand against racism. I don't think any decent person has a problem with that. But I think the Fa need to share some clarity on what the kneeling is officially for now. The message has been lost and the booing is getting toxic. 1
5waller5 Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 1 minute ago, Mark_w said: What is attributing the values of some BLM supporters to the entire movement and then using that as justification to boo a gesture made by footballers to oppose racism? Clue: it's not intelligent. It's not some supporters it's their leadership.
foxinsocks Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Mark_w said: What is attributing the values of some BLM supporters to the entire movement and then using that as justification to boo a gesture made by footballers to oppose racism? Clue: it's not intelligent. As per dr the singh I dont think one should boo a gesture. I do think that kick it out is not making progress... the epl give just 500k a year to fund it with 500k from Pfa. fifa isn't banning racist players for long enough... like the slavia guy.... clubs arent banning enough supporters. I think players should give up social media as Twitter etc will not stop it. Edited 23 May 2021 by foxinsocks
shailen Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 16 minutes ago, Mark_w said: I think it's a bit naive to think people weren't booing the message. Anyone who even remotely cared about the issue of racism would not show their frustration at the ineffectiveness of the gesture by booing it. We have racist fans, Wembley and today couldn't have highlighted that any more effectively. We need to combat it, and we shouldn't start by stopping the players taking a knee because we're embarassed/would rather hide that we have a problem with racism than tackle it. Fair enough, maybe I'm being naive but I think the gesture has lost its impact to some extent. I think what's more powerful is what Sterling did which showed the racism the media portrays or how the England team reported the Bulgaria fans to the authorities. Taking the knee was a powerful symbol but the fact that all players are made to do it every game, imo causes it to lose its message. I'm not saying that the booing was not an indication of racism, but I'm saying we shouldn't naturally judge those booing to be racist either.
5waller5 Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Cadno'r Cymoedd said: Not from you sadly judging by the igmorant guff you spouted. Haven't the time or inclination to debate over ill informed twaddle Ditto. Edited 23 May 2021 by 5waller5
King of Gipsy Lane Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 1 minute ago, splinterdream said: whats wrong with being right leaning? Most of the Country is right leaning. you understand people of other skin colours are also racist and people of other skin colours also disagree with the BLM movement? I know nothing of BLM ! I only know my players choose to take a knee in solidarity against the racist structures that exist in a world dominated by white right wing racist policies. I support them and I applaud there attempts to make our world better, the BLM thing is a red herring that these booing Racists hide behind to justify them being racist
Pliskin Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 5 minutes ago, fuchsntf said: Racism to be tackled at the highest of organisations & Govt-authorities. Still too many decision makers are racist, Plus allowed to make decisions with racist intent l Its destroying the hidden voice, & shaming the actions, and taking a lawful stand, instead of hiding behind it...!! over 500 years of racist-shit & People now complaining of ca 1 years of "taking the knee" or "black-lives-matter, because they Dont feel comfortable,when Its thrown at them & they Dont know where to look......Because they cant be bothered, and Dont want it on their Step everyday...!!! Nothing has to be looked at but those peoples attitude who Think "something should be done better".. If you fcuking Dont get it now if your still missing the point.....Then you never will & remain a permanent tool for the hardened racists..!! I don’t quite get what you’re rant is about? So gathering from your last paragraph you’re suggesting that as long as clubs publicly say racism is bad, and a grand gesture follows that it will halt racism in its path? I’m not saying I disagree with taking the knee, of course I don’t it’s a message the players believe will carry weight. And anything to continually raise the awareness of discrimination and how it impacts millions of lives is important. Discrimination will probably always exist in one form or another..... we can start to make a real impact by educating our children, as they’re the ones who will ultimately grow up into a new generation of hopefully forward thinking people. But by suggesting more needs to be done in terms of law does not mean the person suggesting it is agreeing with racism? I’m a bit puzzled how you came to this conclusion.... So, you think that improving legislation won’t help? By looking at the current legislation means lawfully more can be done to punish those who engage in racist behaviour... as I said, we are good at dealing with hate crimes of a certain type, but the legislation doesn’t cover all offences.... for example if someone goes online and starts sending racist messages to someone, what is the punishment? A ban, a slap on the wrist? Campaigns have been on going for years and years and years to attempt to do more when it comes to tackling racism and discrimination. But you will always get sections of society who still don’t get it... I mean Brexit was driven by elements of outdated prejudice opinions, my Gran told me she votes leave to ‘get rid of the immigrants’ now what is that if not driven by a racist opinion I don’t know what is.... There will be people in parliament who are prejudice yes, there will be people in every section and every walk of life who’s prejudice opinions tuck them in at night... but by fighting to have the laws looked at, and changed will be the best way to tackle the problem, in an ideal world campaigns alone would solve the issue, but they don’t, they help to start the spreading of a message, and people can get involved in helping to spread said message, and then in tern this forces the changes made to legislation. Whether you agree with the punishments or not, it’s probably the only way to really get the message to sink in. Put someone before a court accused of being a racist and let them be punished, because it could be what it takes to make them finally realise the gravity of their opinions, and the damage it can cause to people’s lives.
Izzy Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 2 minutes ago, Larry_LCFC said: Whilst I fully support the idea that "black lives matter" and the anti-racism message, I cannot support BLM. It is ultimately a political organisation that hold some pretty extreme views and ideas that have no place in football. Alot of them aren't even relevant to Britain. Take the knee for Kick It Out or just a stand against racism. I don't think any decent person has a problem with that. But I think the Fa need to share some clarity on what the kneeling is officially for now. The message has been lost and the booing is getting toxic. I think the video of the players talking before games (the one with Wes, Rashford, Henderson etc) gives total clarity on what taking the knee is all about now. 4
Cadno'r Cymoedd Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 2 minutes ago, 5waller5 said: Ditto. Don't post it then. 😉
SemperEadem Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 Some of those that booed would not have opened up their gobs to offer any support to the lads but instead booed this. 2
5waller5 Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 Just now, Cadno'r Cymoedd said: Don't post it then. 😉 My wife does this too - always wants the last word!
Corky Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 I just don't see why you would boo it, seems an odd reaction really.
Unabomber Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 Just now, Izzy said: I think the video of the players talking before games (the one with Wes, Rashford, Henderson etc) gives total clarity on what taking the knee is all about now. How to people still not get it? 1
Channies6thswan Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 21 minutes ago, Mark_w said: I mean I don't think defacing symbols of racism is a worse way of tackling racism than booing a display of opposition to racism. Churchill’s statue is a ‘symbol of racism’? Really?
Mark_w Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 3 minutes ago, 5waller5 said: It's not some supporters it's their leadership. Black Lives Matter is a social movement, not a political party with centralised leadership. It doesn't have a manifesto or explicit universal positions. You have chosen to cherry pick the views of members of the movement you think are unsavoury to discredit what is ultimately just a movement to try and promote the idea that black lives are as important as anybody elses. 1
Mark_w Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 Just now, Channies6thswan said: Churchill’s statue is a ‘symbol of racism’? Really? In that he was a racist and imperialist, yes. 2 1
sishades Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 Wilfred Zaha thinks taking the knee is inappropriate. Is he a racist?
Popular Post Mark_w Posted 23 May 2021 Popular Post Posted 23 May 2021 Just now, sishades said: Wilfred Zaha thinks taking the knee is inappropriate. Is he a racist? He doesn't boo it. Nobody is taking issue with people who don't think it's the best way of getting the message across, the issue is with people who are booing the message. And make no mistake if you boo the gesture, you are booing the message. 5
Larry_LCFC Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 3 minutes ago, Izzy said: I think the video of the players talking before games (the one with Wes, Rashford, Henderson etc) gives total clarity on what taking the knee is all about now. Cant say I've seen it to be fair.
peach0000 Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 Just now, sishades said: Wilfred Zaha thinks taking the knee is inappropriate. Is he a racist? There's a big difference between having a conversation about the gesture and whether it is having an impact and actively booing it. Zaha stands respectfully while his team mates take the knee
Nod.E Posted 23 May 2021 Posted 23 May 2021 It's almost as though it's having no impact isn't it? Who'd have thought?
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