Learning Other Languages

[Dr The Singh]

Watch dubbed versions of Baywatch.

[UpTheLeagueFox]

8 hours ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Nice, I am on my 360th odd consecutive day of spanish. Started in the first lockdown as well but had a few days where i didnt do it which broke my streak.

How did you get on In Tenerife out of interest? I try and speak to a Mexican friend and a Colombian maintenance bloke in my office, but the South American way of speaking Spanish appears completely different to the Spain-Duolingo version.

Anything else you are doing to aid your learning, other than Duolingo?

Spanish is spoken differently around the world [like English / regional English / American English etc] but broadly speaking you can make yourself understood anywhere with the basics.

[Raj]

I can just about speak English....

[Manini]

7 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Spanish is spoken differently around the world [like English / regional English / American English etc] but broadly speaking you can make yourself understood anywhere with the basics.

Similar to Italian then I reckon. My grandad always told us that the only place in Italy where they speak “proper” Italian is in Florence, the rest is just an amalgamation of slang thrown together to produce a local dialect, even Rome apparently. I imagine what’s spoken in Florence could be similar to what we call Received Pronunciation. Although i’m no expect - and have no idea if it’s true or not either, my grandad was mental (in the best possible way), but it sounds right  

Edited 18 August 2021 by Manini

[fuchsntf]

On 17/08/2021 at 18:51, Dr The Singh said:

Watch dubbed versions of Baywatch.

Wow..!! Multi-lingual  Tits..!

[What the Fuchs?]

On 16/07/2021 at 18:59, shen said:

Save up if you're going to Norway!

Been looking for a bit of advice actually from anyone with any knowledge of Scandinavian languages. I’ve been learning Norwegian (Bokmal) on DuoLingo because I read you can understand Danish and Swedish if you understand it - can people from Denmark understand Norwegian and vice versa? I know there’s a tonne of different dialects in Norwegian and two written standards (Bokmal and Nynorsk), but the internet told me it was easy for English speakers to learn so fingers crossed 😂

[Suzie the Fox]

9 hours ago, What the Fuchs? said:

Been looking for a bit of advice actually from anyone with any knowledge of Scandinavian languages. I’ve been learning Norwegian (Bokmal) on DuoLingo because I read you can understand Danish and Swedish if you understand it - can people from Denmark understand Norwegian and vice versa? I know there’s a tonne of different dialects in Norwegian and two written standards (Bokmal and Nynorsk), but the internet told me it was easy for English speakers to learn so fingers crossed 😂

Yes and no  They can understand the majority of words, some are quite similar and thus be able to have a conversation with each other. Apparently from a Norwegian perspective it is harder to understand Danish than it is Swedish. 

 

I have been trying to learn some Norwegian from a guy i have been gaming with for the last 8 years. I found that some words are a nightmare to say, due to the fact us Brits don't seem to put our tongue in the right place  to make the right sounds.  

 

Edit to add, bokmål is way easier to learn than nynorsk, which is a bit of a weird dialect (apparently)

Edited 5 January 2022 by Suzie the Fox

[SkidsFox]

It's great that we now have YouTube and other learning apps to help with listening and pronunciation skills. But reading in another language can also be a great help once you get past beginner stages. I've found the Short Stories range (graded reading in various languages) promoted by Olly Richards and his team of linguists, to be an excellent tool in taking it to the next level. His channel on YT is quite interesting too.

[FoxyPV]

I used Duolingo pretty religiously for about two years pre Covid and it was enough to get by on holiday pretty comfortably.

 

The problem with Spanish is that they speak so ****ing fast so YouTube etc is the only way to gain near fluency.

 

My reading is much better than speaking or listening as I used to do the app when I was bored in work

[shen]

13 hours ago, What the Fuchs? said:

Been looking for a bit of advice actually from anyone with any knowledge of Scandinavian languages. I’ve been learning Norwegian (Bokmal) on DuoLingo because I read you can understand Danish and Swedish if you understand it - can people from Denmark understand Norwegian and vice versa? I know there’s a tonne of different dialects in Norwegian and two written standards (Bokmal and Nynorsk), but the internet told me it was easy for English speakers to learn so fingers crossed 😂

The mutual understanding between Scandinavians is a topic that's been around for what seems like forever. I crudely suggest that Norwegians speak Danish with a Swedish accent

It's important to distinguish between the spoken and written languages. The written languages are largely mutually intelligible. Some words are unique to their language, but I'd guess that 70-80% of the words can be found in all languages.

 

The spoken language is a bit more tricky. All three languages/cultures are relatively minor and English is so widely spoken, so a lot of native speakers will not be used to foreigners attempting to speak their language. As a result, incorrect inflections/intonations can completely throw off native speakers.

I speak both Danish and Norwegian fluently, while I understand written and most spoken Swedish. I get thrown off by dialects, but that's the same for all languages I guess. I also know many Danes who will completely shut down and not understand a word of Norwegian or Swedish. Norwegians are probably the best at understanding the other languages, which seems logical as their written language (Bokmål) is essentially just appropriated Danish and their spoken language has similar pronunciation to Swedish.

Nynorsk is just a weird thing which is very regional in Norway. It is in fact only a written language, not a spoken one, made up of different, regional dialects, to differentiate the Norwegian language more from Danish, who colonised them for over 400 years. I wouldn't bother too much with this unless you're historically and culturally invested in Norwegian languages.

[What the Fuchs?]

4 hours ago, Suzie the Fox said:

Yes and no  They can understand the majority of words, some are quite similar and thus be able to have a conversation with each other. Apparently from a Norwegian perspective it is harder to understand Danish than it is Swedish. 

 

I have been trying to learn some Norwegian from a guy i have been gaming with for the last 8 years. I found that some words are a nightmare to say, due to the fact us Brits don't seem to put our tongue in the right place  to make the right sounds.  

 

Edit to add, bokmål is way easier to learn than nynorsk, which is a bit of a weird dialect (apparently)

Yeah I feel the best way to learn a language is to actually speak to people from the country - atm I’m learning Bokmal (which nobody actually speaks as it’s just ‘book language) in an Oslo dialect which is what they have on duolingo, but this is also the writing system most similar to Swedish. The problem is even if I became proficient in it I could listen to someone from Tromso or Bergen and be completely lost 😂 Because the country is so sparsely populated they have such a strange mixture of dialects in different areas and spoken Norwegian is different from written Norwegian…and yeah they use Nynorsk to write a lot in the west, so it actually seems a lot harder language to tackle than I thought when I first started out! Apparently most of them speak good English as well so I feel like learning this language might have to be just a hobby and appreciation of their culture rather than anything immediately useful…

 

Have you managed to learn much Norwegian? I love how we share many words and how many words sound similar to the English, and verb conjugations are a lot more simple (jeg snakker, du snakker, de snakker are all the same rather than French je parle, tu parles, ils parlent) but I’m currently struggling with gendered nouns as there seems to be quite a lot of inconsistency (like the woman - kvinnen, the women kvinnene, the girl - jentA, the girls jentene)

[shen]

8 minutes ago, What the Fuchs? said:

Yeah I feel the best way to learn a language is to actually speak to people from the country - atm I’m learning Bokmal (which nobody actually speaks as it’s just ‘book language) in an Oslo dialect which is what they have on duolingo, but this is also the writing system most similar to Swedish. The problem is even if I became proficient in it I could listen to someone from Tromso or Bergen and be completely lost 😂 Because the country is so sparsely populated they have such a strange mixture of dialects in different areas and spoken Norwegian is different from written Norwegian…and yeah they use Nynorsk to write a lot in the west, so it actually seems a lot harder language to tackle than I thought when I first started out! Apparently most of them speak good English as well so I feel like learning this language might have to be just a hobby and appreciation of their culture rather than anything immediately useful…

 

Have you managed to learn much Norwegian? I love how we share many words and how many words sound similar to the English, and verb conjugations are a lot more simple (jeg snakker, du snakker, de snakker are all the same rather than French je parle, tu parles, ils parlent) but I’m currently struggling with gendered nouns as there seems to be quite a lot of inconsistency (like the woman - kvinnen, the women kvinnene, the girl - jentA, the girls jentene)

Bokmål is considered the main spoken language in Norway, not sure what you mean by that?
 

"Jenta" is dialect, the correct spelling would be 'jenten', but it sounds a bit odd to Norwegians and they'd think you learned Norwegian off an octogenarian But like in English, there are of course a good amount of exceptions to the rule. You will likely only remember those from using the language.

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

2 hours ago, FoxyPV said:

I used Duolingo pretty religiously for about two years pre Covid and it was enough to get by on holiday pretty comfortably.

 

The problem with Spanish is that they speak so ****ing fast so YouTube etc is the only way to gain near fluency.

 

My reading is much better than speaking or listening as I used to do the app when I was bored in work

Ditto. Duolingo is great but unfortunately tends to lean towards South American Spanish, which I don’t want.

Ive clocked up over 650 consecutive days on the app and despite my above complaint have found it very useful on my last couple of Spanish holidays, it’s great being able to book a table or ask for a chicken sandwich in Spanish and it’s greatly appreciated by the locals, even with my hesitant slow mispronunciation 😂 

As you say, far easier to read than to listen to! 

[What the Fuchs?]

5 minutes ago, shen said:

The mutual understanding between Scandinavians is a topic that's been around for what seems like forever. I crudely suggest that Norwegians speak Danish with a Swedish accent

It's important to distinguish between the spoken and written languages. The written languages are largely mutually intelligible. Some words are unique to their language, but I'd guess that 70-80% of the words can be found in all languages.

 

The spoken language is a bit more tricky. All three languages/cultures are relatively minor and English is so widely spoken, so a lot of native speakers will not be used to foreigners attempting to speak their language. As a result, incorrect inflections/intonations can completely throw off native speakers.

I speak both Danish and Norwegian fluently, while I understand written and most spoken Swedish. I get thrown off by dialects, but that's the same for all languages I guess. I also know many Danes who will completely shut down and not understand a word of Norwegian or Swedish. Norwegians are probably the best at understanding the other languages, which seems logical as their written language (Bokmål) is essentially just appropriated Danish and their spoken language has similar pronunciation to Swedish.

Nynorsk is just a weird thing which is very regional in Norway. It is in fact only a written language, not a spoken one, made up of different, regional dialects, to differentiate the Norwegian language more from Danish, who colonised them for over 400 years. I wouldn't bother too much with this unless you're historically and culturally invested in Norwegian languages.

So do you think I’m being unrealistic in attempting to learn Norwegian with an eye on the other Scandinavian languages, or is the ability to understand Danish or Swedish after learning Norwegian something which is usually possible only for native speakers? After all I am worried about learning Bokmal in the Oslo dialect and going to, say Bergen, and not being able to understand anyone, let alone understanding any Danish or Swedish!

There’s such a diversity of dialects in the country that apparently even native Norwegians can struggle to understand other native dialects (though I suppose that’s similar to how someone from London might struggle to understand someone from Glasgow or Cumbria) - can you understand all Norwegian dialects, and did you also start by learning Bokmal? I know Nynorsk is a relatively new writing system designed to incorporate the vocabulary from the different dialects, and that some of the dialects are more similar to Nynorsk than Bokmal. It just seems so daunting that I’m learning ‘Jeg’, ‘Ikke’, ‘Hva’, ‘Hvorfor’, and ‘Deg’ for instance but if I went to Bergen I would hear ‘Eg’, ‘Ikk’je’, ‘Ka’, ‘Koffor’ and ‘DeGG’ 🥶😂

 

edit: just saw your reply while typing, duolingo tries to teach me ‘Jenta’ but yeah ‘Jenten’ makes more sense to my brain 😅 lots of difficult rules to remember like when to use Det/Den or Et/En as well (not sure how many people use ‘Ei’ as it seems the masculine and feminine are combining into one, at least in some of the dialects. And with Bokmal I’ve been told that it’s basically different from how Norwegians actually speak, but it’s the only way for me to begin to learn the language realistically 😎

[shen]

16 minutes ago, What the Fuchs? said:

So do you think I’m being unrealistic in attempting to learn Norwegian with an eye on the other Scandinavian languages, or is the ability to understand Danish or Swedish after learning Norwegian something which is usually possible only for native speakers? After all I am worried about learning Bokmal in the Oslo dialect and going to, say Bergen, and not being able to understand anyone, let alone understanding any Danish or Swedish!

There’s such a diversity of dialects in the country that apparently even native Norwegians can struggle to understand other native dialects (though I suppose that’s similar to how someone from London might struggle to understand someone from Glasgow or Cumbria) - can you understand all Norwegian dialects, and did you also start by learning Bokmal? I know Nynorsk is a relatively new writing system designed to incorporate the vocabulary from the different dialects, and that some of the dialects are more similar to Nynorsk than Bokmal. It just seems so daunting that I’m learning ‘Jeg’, ‘Ikke’, ‘Hva’, ‘Hvorfor’, and ‘Deg’ for instance but if I went to Bergen I would hear ‘Eg’, ‘Ikk’je’, ‘Ka’, ‘Koffor’ and ‘DeGG’ 🥶😂

 

edit: just saw your reply while typing, duolingo tries to teach me ‘Jenta’ but yeah ‘Jenten’ makes more sense to my brain 😅 lots of difficult rules to remember like when to use Det/Den or Et/En as well (not sure how many people use ‘Ei’ as it seems the masculine and feminine are combining into one, at least in some of the dialects. And with Bokmal I’ve been told that it’s basically different from how Norwegians actually speak, but it’s the only way for me to begin to learn the language realistically 😎

No, it's certainly not unrealistic.

I think Norwegian gives you the best basis to understand the other two languages (and even Icelandic for that matter) for the reasons mentioned earlier.

 

If you have an ear for language, you'll pick up on the peculiarities of regional dialects, but yeah, I too get thrown off at some Norwegian dialects (e.g. Stavanger and Trondheim dialects).
Bergen is manageable to me because it actually resembles Danish more (the way they pronounce 'r' in Bergen and on the west/south coast is just like in Danish, i.e. the guttural 'r' instead of the rolled 'r' which you have in Oslo and most of Norway).

The genders ('en'/'et') is something that is intuitive to me and difficult to explain, but just ignore things like 'ei'. Know that it exists, but don't bother learning those particular dialects unless you live there.

I find Norwegian to be more consistent than Danish, which is a very difficult language to learn and master, especially for non-Germanic speakers.

 

FYI I learned Norwegian by ear after I met my now-wife who is from Oslo. I could practice at work too as I had numerous Norwegian customers.

My German mother learned Danish when I was a child and she can still speak it quite well today. She understands quite a lot of spoken Norwegian and finds it easier to pronounce than Danish, so if she can do it, so can you

 

[Stinkenzo]

How we all doing

 

I started learning Italian on Babbel (not Duolingo like most people seem to on here) during the first lockdown but decided to actually pay up a couple of years ago to do a full course. Did French in school (hated it) and German (enjoyed it but now forgot it) so fancied doing a new language that wasn't the most common but wouldn't be a total waste of time. Also helps its one of those languages, like French, where a few words are quite well known and used here. 

 

I did alright for 3 months then fell away from it, went back then fell away for much longer. Last summer I decided to go back to the start of the courses to re-jig my memory then by the time I caught up to where I was before, fell away again Plan on starting again next few weeks, will see how I get on

[grobyfox1990]

On 05/01/2022 at 13:12, FoxyPV said:

I used Duolingo pretty religiously for about two years pre Covid and it was enough to get by on holiday pretty comfortably.

 

The problem with Spanish is that they speak so ****ing fast so YouTube etc is the only way to gain near fluency.

 

My reading is much better than speaking or listening as I used to do the app when I was bored in work

That’s my issue. I can read and construct a lot of sentences in Spanish to get by. Once a native starts speaking, can maybe pick up 1 of every 5 words because it’s so quick. Need to find a reason to live in Colombia or Argentina for a year to get the hang of it 

[FoxyPV]

9 hours ago, grobyfox1990 said:

That’s my issue. I can read and construct a lot of sentences in Spanish to get by. Once a native starts speaking, can maybe pick up 1 of every 5 words because it’s so quick. Need to find a reason to live in Colombia or Argentina for a year to get the hang of it 

I've started using Spanish obsessed which has full convos unlike Duolingo. 

[Captain...]

Have a look for language exchanges there are lots of online ones but face to face is better. The only way you'll get better is by talking to native speakers.

 

Duolingo and all that stuff is like driving lessons, gives you the basics but you learn so much more by getting out and driving on the roads.