Ukraine

[Lionator]

Now Macron suggested NATO troops on the ground in Ukraine.

 

Im very anxious that this is only heading one way. We seem on an unstoppable march towards nuclear war with no side willing to back down. 

[leicsmac]

13 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Now Macron suggested NATO troops on the ground in Ukraine.

 

Im very anxious that this is only heading one way. We seem on an unstoppable march towards nuclear war with no side willing to back down. 

.... he actually said that? Fvck me, I'm dumbfounded.

 

Unless he has a pretty damn precise insight into Putins brain and therefore knows to a certainty where he'd stop and that it's short of pressing the red button, that's a truly stupid thing to suggest.

[Lionator]

6 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

.... he actually said that? Fvck me, I'm dumbfounded.

 

Unless he has a pretty damn precise insight into Putins brain and therefore knows to a certainty where he'd stop and that it's short of pressing the red button, that's a truly stupid thing to suggest.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-war-troops-west-macron-putin-b2502978.html

[leicsmac]

7 minutes ago, Lionator said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-war-troops-west-macron-putin-b2502978.html

Well, that's a little more measured than I thought it would be, but it still sounds like a ridiculous suggestion in the name of public bravado. Unless he's far less intelligent than he appears to be, he knows exactly where that road ends, at least an unacceptably high percentage of the time.

[Lionator]

3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I dunno, I'm thinking there's a certain amount of leeway between "wanting to ensure Putin doesn't fulfil his nationalist bollocks objectives but knowing there are threats along the way and recognising them accordingly" and becoming a cheerleader for that same nationalist sentiment.

 

Einstein had it right about nationalism a century ago - it's good for war, destruction, suffering and eventual extinction and practically nothing else. History shows that very clearly.

I’m just very skeptical of these ‘Putin wants to take more countries’ takes from politicians and defence officials. I mean he might. But they ramped up their military industry when they were being pushed back by Ukraine, so it was surely in response to that rather than any long term plan. I’ve also not seen Putin ever suggest that the baltics are on the menu let alone Poland/Germany etc. Weirdly America also don’t believe this and they surely have the best intelligence on this given they were pre-warning about the Ukraine invasion. I think and hope that it’s all political bluster. 

[leicsmac]

7 minutes ago, Lionator said:

I’m just very skeptical of these ‘Putin wants to take more countries’ takes from politicians and defence officials. I mean he might. But they ramped up their military industry when they were being pushed back by Ukraine, so it was surely in response to that rather than any long term plan. I’ve also not seen Putin ever suggest that the baltics are on the menu let alone Poland/Germany etc. Weirdly America also don’t believe this and they surely have the best intelligence on this given they were pre-warning about the Ukraine invasion. I think and hope that it’s all political bluster. 

I'm likewise sceptical of them because of previous discussion on here regarding Article 5. Unless Putin genuinely thinks that NATO is engaged in a massive bluff, that Trump will just let things play out, or he's simply lost the plot and gone full nihilist, it has to be all bluster.

[Dunge]

I don’t think anyone knows and that’s the problem. It became pointless trying to take anything from Russian words some time ago, and if you want any evidence of that just check Putin’s interview with Tucker Carlson. You have to take this administration by their actions. Those actions are:

- They invaded Ukraine.

- They’re ramping up military production.

- They haven’t yet done anything new with their nukes.

- There are reports of a plan to reorganise their military on their western border in the long term - ie up to 10 years.

 

Their reasons aren’t clear; their words over the last few years are proven to have very little value outside of creating and sustaining an internal narrative about the conflict.

Nobody knows how Putin would respond to various things, and that’s probably the way he likes it. Although the downside for him is that it makes it a lot harder for him to attempt to end the conflict and return to normal if that’s what he wanted. He’s kind of stuck right now, getting slowly less popular as he takes away the rights of his people and sends them to fight and die in a war they don’t really want.

[fox_up_north]

Hi Russian bots.

 

Do you think we'll win the league with record points? 

[bovril]

Unfortunately I will now forever associate Knockaert's scorpion kick goal with unhinged pro-Russia posting

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, bovril said:

Unfortunately I will now forever associate Knockaert's scorpion kick goal with unhinged pro-Russia posting

Don't worry, we'll always have Nalis' volley vs Leeds.

[Tommy Fresh]

4 hours ago, Lionator said:

Now Macron suggested NATO troops on the ground in Ukraine.

 

Im very anxious that this is only heading one way. We seem on an unstoppable march towards nuclear war with no side willing to back down. 

Hardly a suggestion is it, he's said there's no consensus to do it but nothing can ruled out. 

[Lionator]

2 hours ago, Dunge said:

I don’t know where you’ve got it from but this is just nonsense from start to finish.

 

Regarding Russia’s economy, long term it has a massive problem with being a fossil fuel giant - regardless of what you feel about climate change, whether you believe it or not, the fossil fuel industry is doomed. Every year that goes by, oil extracted in Russia becomes less profitable. You have to dig deeper to reach the wells, it requires more and more energy to actually extract the oil, which makes it decreasingly cost effective. The future is renewables and nuclear, whether people like it or not. Putin will know this, and that his model for governance of Russia diminishes with it. In fact there’s a good argument to say that one big reason there is a war in Ukraine is because it’s good land for mining rare metals (good particularly in the short term) and farming, which is something where again Russia would be able to impart control over the world.

I don’t think everything they say is complete BS, although a lot of it is. The real truth is nearly always somewhere in between. 

[LCFCCHRIS]

Expect the worst hope for the best. 
All European country militaries need a Poland style investment anyway. 

[Dunge]

Worth noting in response to Macron’s words from earlier that all the other significant players in NATO - US, UK, Germany, Poland, among others - have said today that that suggestion is not on the table.

[Jon the Hat]

13 hours ago, fox_up_north said:

Hi Russian bots.

 

Do you think we'll win the league with record points? 

We can only hope they are Russian bots and not utter morons.

[Mike Oxlong]

18 hours ago, fox_up_north said:

Hi Russian bots.

 

Do you think we'll win the league with record points? 

 

Bots say yes 

[ozleicester]

To think im still restricted.

[Innovindil]

3 hours ago, ozleicester said:

To think im still restricted.

Preach. 

 

I'm still banned too yet there's people spouting garbage 10 times worse than I ever have around the place. 

 

Hell, I was banned from the Israel/hamas thread without ever posting in it. 

[Wymsey]

 

 

[Parafox]

2 hours ago, Wymsey said:

Naïve to say the least.

 

Disregarding the massive comb-over. 

 

 

[SpacedX]

 

Wait. This electoral farce has been termed a landslide, but only 87% of vote? Seriously? When any serious actual opposition is either censored, banned from standing, exiled, imprisoned or dead that's a tad underwhelming mate. 

 

With it virtually impossible to protest in Russia without being arrested, the Navalny inspired 'noon against Putin' protest painted a very different picture. 

[fox_up_north]

Well it's there to give the impression of democracy. 87% is high enough to be a landslide but he can still say that other candidates received votes, too. Therefore the democracy works.

[SpacedX]

1 hour ago, fox_up_north said:

Well it's there to give the impression of democracy. 87% is high enough to be a landslide but he can still say that other candidates received votes, too. Therefore the democracy works.

Yes, I wasn't being serious. I understand how this farce is staged. 

[MPH]

In a country where you can be imprisoned for saying “ war is bad”, I suppose it  would be unrealistic for  us to expect them to approve a candidate to stand who thinks war is bad..

[Lionator]

Is the sensible US/European policy now to basically fund Ukraine enough to ensure they can defend what they have, but not to push onto Crimea/Donbass and create a geopolitical crisis. Make it a total meat grinder for Russia so that it takes them years to remilitarise themselves. Basically a never ending war so that Russia isn't a threat to NATO.

 

Also a wild thing I read on the website formerly known as twitter is that the USA and Russia both took part in navy exercises alongside each other in India.