Cost of living crisis.

[kenny]

Just now, leicsmac said:

Combined with Gen III/IV fission and/or better storage, they are.

 

As per above, I have no idea why so many people seem wedded to the idea of regression either in the form of relying on outdated energy generation until it dooms us all or a rollback in living standards. It simply doesn't have to be one or the other - the third option does, in fact, exist.

 

Mostly because we are 20 years away from that being effective.

 

We should have been building nuclear plants every 5 years but we haven't. So what we do we do in the short term?

 

Wind and solar are fine as a top up they can't form the spine of UK energy production.

 

 

[leicsmac]

Just now, kenny said:

Mostly because we are 20 years away from that being effective.

 

We should have been building nuclear plants every 5 years but we haven't. So what we do we do in the short term?

 

Wind and solar are fine as a top up they can't form the spine of UK energy production.

 

 

Again, as per above - a phased transfer from one to the other over the next twenty years. 

 

Yes, it's going to cost, which is why we should have done it a couple of decades ago. But that cost isn't going to go away and is going to keep going up no matter how much we deny it is there - until one day it is totally unavoidable and costs a truly horrific toll, in much more than money.

 

It would be better to sort things out before that happens.

[FoxesDeb]

18 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Well it’s ridiculous to think people are going to put themselves out of pocket for a feel good factor. Because that’s all it is 

Feel good factor? What does this even mean in this context? 

[kenny]

Just now, leicsmac said:

Again, as per above - a phased transfer from one to the other over the next twenty years. 

 

Yes, it's going to cost, which is why we should have done it a couple of decades ago. But that cost isn't going to go away and is going to keep going up no matter how much we deny it is there - until one day it is totally unavoidable and costs a truly horrific toll, in much more than money.

 

It would be better to sort things out before that happens.

The cost is irrelevant. Its time really. 

 

We can throw money at the problem and the plants won't be built for 20 years.

[The Year Of The Fox]

2 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

Feel good factor? What does this even mean in this context? 

It means that if you want to blow say £45k of your savings on an electric car and ASHP whilst we’re shipping our waste to Romania, whilst Australia were trying to build a coal mine the size of the UK, and China and India are giving off more ‘carbon footprint’ than I will in a 1000 years and you’re still not financially better off after doing so, you’re effectively pissing in the wind. 

[fuchsntf]

In all these fears of cost of Living und willing to blame the obvious Bogey-men & politics easy-speak...

 

Where around Western Europe, where are we seeing this self-sufficiency levels that was promised, despite Globalization & spreading World business.

This is with listening to all  the European  countries I have lived in besides UK. Being told over the last decades including the Yugoslavia years, that in the West

Major developed countries peoples being told from all & sundry ,from past & present serving politicians & Social science/Medicine & Health Organisation politicians/academics & their media-outlets.

That we have reached a decent Standard self-suffiency.. Major services,Major stable food,Major Medical needs...That Distant conflicts even within Distant European Boundaries we are protected..Basic Services Businesses can no longer hold Basic Need customers to Ransom...!!!ich

Then First pair crisis situations, that we are becoming desperate within weeks..!!

 

 

 

[Robo61]

2 hours ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Well it’s ridiculous to think people are going to put themselves out of pocket for a feel good factor. Because that’s all it is 

Isn't that exactly what we are doing when we purchase something we don't need. 

[Milo]

4 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Interesting thought, that. I'd have to look at the numbers myself and the energy storage issue is a tricky one, but other than that...

I think off shore and land wind farms are the quickest and cheapest way forward. Maybe coupled with solar whilst the more long term nuclear options are planned for. 
 

Interesting work being done in Cornwall (?) regarding mining lithium. I think some tin mines were closed down in the late 1800/early 1900’s due to high levels of lithium found in the water when mining…which they didn’t know what to do with! 

 

The fact it is in the water would, I assume, make it easier to extract and use for battery storage. 
 

 

[Bellend Sebastian]

36 minutes ago, Robo61 said:

Isn't that exactly what we are doing when we purchase something we don't need. 

It's also describing holidays, which I'm led to believe are quite popular

[Dahnsouff]

3 hours ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Well it’s ridiculous to think people are going to put themselves out of pocket for a feel good factor. Because that’s all it is 

And there is me thinking I am trying to leave better world for my children. Doh!

 

Or maybe you are looking for consensus to support your own preferred point of view?    

 

We are currently going through the heat pump game at present, and it will make us worse off this year, maybe even next year, but the years following?

 

We all do what we think is best for something we deem important.

[Bryn]

This is an extreme take but the reality of the situation is the normal person should be in the streets rioting. We need global regime change. Liberties hard fought in the 20th century are being erode. Kings and Queens have been replaced with Oligarchs and Autocrats who have just as much power and privilege, more even, but without a shred of even pretense of respect for their subjects. The economic pie grows larger and the average person's slice is shrinking, the whole economic system is rigged and broken. Elections are becoming less transparent. The world is burning. It is a total mess. We're genuinely on the brink of oblivion in multiple domains.

[yorkie1999]

4 hours ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

When an electric car costs as little as a diesel, when it doesn’t cost £20k to replace the battery, and cost £1k to install a charger at your house, and the range of the vehicles improve- I’ll contemplate getting one

 

When an ASHP doesn’t cost about £15k to install (I could buy about 17 combi boilers with that) and they actually heat the home adequately as a combi does, and I don’t need ridiculously sized radiators to heat the rooms, I’ll think about getting one

Talking to a Chap I know whose got a merc electric car. Costs him 14 quid to fully charge at home, gets 110 miles in the winter, but 250 miles in the summer, which ain’t that bad, works out about 50 and 120 mpg equivalent, but considering electric is about to double in price, it looks to me that he’s going to be no better off than buying a vw golf blue motion that gets 70 to the gallon. It could put a bit of a dampener on the electric car market.

[yorkie1999]

28 minutes ago, Bryn said:

This is an extreme take but the reality of the situation is the normal person should be in the streets rioting. We need global regime change. Liberties hard fought in the 20th century are being erode. Kings and Queens have been replaced with Oligarchs and Autocrats who have just as much power and privilege, more even, but without a shred of even pretense of respect for their subjects. The economic pie grows larger and the average person's slice is shrinking, the whole economic system is rigged and broken. Elections are becoming less transparent. The world is burning. It is a total mess. We're genuinely on the brink of oblivion in multiple domains.

Bilderberg!!

[Milo]

34 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

And there is me thinking I am trying to leave better world for my children. Doh!

 

Or maybe you are looking for consensus to support your own preferred point of view?    

 

We are currently going through the heat pump game at present, and it will make us worse off this year, maybe even next year, but the years following?

 

We all do what we think is best for something we deem important.

We moved house a year and a bit ago. 
 

Originally we were going to self build and have heat recovery/sips/solar, etc. The whole happy clappy eco friendly and energy efficient dream. 

 

As it turned out we ended up buying a 100 year old house with all the non-eco or energy efficiency that comes with it. 
 

I had to install a full heating system when we moved in, so naturally expected to put in a ground source heat pump. 
 

The reality was that the figures just didn’t add up. Not even close.
There is zero point in putting in a GSHP system into an old draughty house. We don’t have cavity walls, and I don’t want to reduce the internal space so the only option to insulate would be to add external insulation. Add to that new flooring throughout to mitigate heat loss, upgrading windows and doors and proper loft insulation and the price was just ridiculous. I think I worked out I’d break even when my kids were about 103 years old! 
 

I would love to see new builds not connected to the grid - they have to have some kind of renewable system installed. Maybe that would force proper change and reduce the price overall for retrofitting more energy efficient, carbon reducing systems to the majority of existing properties.
 

Good luck with your project though. It’s definitely the way forward. 

 

[yorkie1999]

6 hours ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Interesting, thanks for that. You seem to be plugged in on this, what do you think is the short-medium term solution for this? As you can imagine, this is absolutely the worst time to be convincing people to be investing in the long-term, so what is the alternative, if any?!

 

Back onto cost of living, called up internet and mobile provider and read the riot act, two months free on each and price kept static for the next 12 months. Insurance policy's already done. I don't have any other bills to reduce now.... time to take a deep breath and cross fingers.

I don’t know what the short term answer is apart from economising, but that doesn’t really work because if the energy companies double their price and everyone economises, the energy companies profits won’t increase and consequently they’ll increase their prices again. All I know is my gran had an old aga which used to heat the whole house up, to almost boiling point!!, and be able to cook on it all day long for the price of a scuttle of coal a day, maybe 10p. Now I know leicsmac is gonna jump in and tell me to save the planet, but to be honest, I quite fancy a villa in skeggy, and I’m sure my kids would, instead of shivering our nuts off every year.

[Nod.E]

6 hours ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

It means that if you want to blow say £45k of your savings on an electric car and ASHP whilst we’re shipping our waste to Romania, whilst Australia were trying to build a coal mine the size of the UK, and China and India are giving off more ‘carbon footprint’ than I will in a 1000 years and you’re still not financially better off after doing so, you’re effectively pissing in the wind. 

Yep.

 

I don't know whether I admire or pitty people that think they can make the blindest bit of difference.

 

The required change is so far above our heads. It needs to happen but you, I and most everyone is disenfranchised. 

[Guest Col city fan]

3 hours ago, Bryn said:

This is an extreme take but the reality of the situation is the normal person should be in the streets rioting. We need global regime change. Liberties hard fought in the 20th century are being erode. Kings and Queens have been replaced with Oligarchs and Autocrats who have just as much power and privilege, more even, but without a shred of even pretense of respect for their subjects. The economic pie grows larger and the average person's slice is shrinking, the whole economic system is rigged and broken. Elections are becoming less transparent. The world is burning. It is a total mess. We're genuinely on the brink of oblivion in multiple domains.

This won’t happen of course because the world is the most hypocritical now that I’ve personally ever known it

Bollox to all this ‘community spirit’ nonsense, self preservation has become pretty much the be-all and end-all

People will say it hasn’t but it’s all talk, driven by social media 

[NasPb]

12 hours ago, Nalis said:

I agree. Sadly I can't see anything changing in our lifetime though.

I agree sadly. Maybe not ever. I'm a utopian, but I'd rather be a dreamer and try for something even slightly better for every man woman and child than give up. It ain't easy but if we lose our hearts because in this low life well just be left empty. Always have to try. 

[leicsmac]

9 hours ago, kenny said:

The cost is irrelevant. Its time really. 

 

We can throw money at the problem and the plants won't be built for 20 years.

Fair point.

 

With this in mind, however, I cannot understand the seeming resistance here to a phased change rather than reverting to fossil fuel usage.

 

6 hours ago, Milo said:

I think off shore and land wind farms are the quickest and cheapest way forward. Maybe coupled with solar whilst the more long term nuclear options are planned for. 
 

Interesting work being done in Cornwall (?) regarding mining lithium. I think some tin mines were closed down in the late 1800/early 1900’s due to high levels of lithium found in the water when mining…which they didn’t know what to do with! 

 

The fact it is in the water would, I assume, make it easier to extract and use for battery storage. 
 

 

Interesting. Personally I think that truly efficient storage options would take a while and therefore any change does need to be phased, but it's certainly something for the future.

 

5 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

I don’t know what the short term answer is apart from economising, but that doesn’t really work because if the energy companies double their price and everyone economises, the energy companies profits won’t increase and consequently they’ll increase their prices again. All I know is my gran had an old aga which used to heat the whole house up, to almost boiling point!!, and be able to cook on it all day long for the price of a scuttle of coal a day, maybe 10p. Now I know leicsmac is gonna jump in and tell me to save the planet, but to be honest, I quite fancy a villa in skeggy, and I’m sure my kids would, instead of shivering our nuts off every year.

Not at all - I think a villa in Skeggy sounds like a wonderful idea.

 

The problem would be the food and water being several times the price they are now due to global supply issues caused by lack of area to source them, the flood defences creaking and breaking under increased sea levels and generally more extreme weather and countless millions of climate refugees in boats on the horizon looking for help.

 

Sorry.

 

2 hours ago, Nod.E said:

Yep.

 

I don't know whether I admire or pitty people that think they can make the blindest bit of difference.

 

The required change is so far above our heads. It needs to happen but you, I and most everyone is disenfranchised. 

It's very easy to be fatalistic about it all when one considers the magnitude of the problem. yes.

 

But there are options - the most important one being lobbying our respective governments to apply changes, and to encourage other governments to do so as well.

 

Yes, it may end up making no difference at all, but a small chance is better than no chance, and as I've said before I really don't want to stand before future generations and say that the shithole that they must now live in is because I didn't do everything I could. That's not a legacy we really should be aiming for.

 

1 hour ago, NasPb said:

I agree sadly. Maybe not ever. I'm a utopian, but I'd rather be a dreamer and try for something even slightly better for every man woman and child than give up. It ain't easy but if we lose our hearts because in this low life well just be left empty. Always have to try. 

Rage against the dying of the light, mon ami. Always. Otherwise there's nothing but the void, and then, what is the point.

 

The idealists will keep this world spinning while everyone else says it can't be done.

Edited 2 April 2022 by leicsmac

[ozleicester]

Lets not be too distracted... the cost of living issue is based  in PROFITS, the mega corporations and ultra rich putting profit ahead of anything else, unless that is changed, nothing of substance will occur because we will all be discussing the minutiae. While they continue to exploit the world and the people in it.

[MPH]

10 hours ago, kenny said:

Mostly because we are 20 years away from that being effective.

 

We should have been building nuclear plants every 5 years but we haven't. So what we do we do in the short term?

 

Wind and solar are fine as a top up they can't form the spine of UK energy production.

 

 

 

how do you improve on a technology if you don’t implement it in the first place? Wind/ solar IS the future.

[kenny]

3 hours ago, MPH said:

 

how do you improve on a technology if you don’t implement it in the first place? Wind/ solar IS the future.

The only way  solar will be the future in the UK is to increase our sunlight hours is to encourage global warming.

 

A big reason for the energy price increase last year was lower than average sun and wind generation.

 

As country we are famed for our weather and it's unpredictability. Why on earth would we trust power generation to the weather!

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, kenny said:

The only way  solar will be the future in the UK is to increase our sunlight hours is to encourage global warming.

 

A big reason for the energy price increase last year was lower than average sun and wind generation.

 

As country we are famed for our weather and it's unpredictability. Why on earth would we trust power generation to the weather!

...or improve the efficiency of solar panels and wind turbines. Which is possible and is in the pipeline.

 

But yes, a combined solution is called for.

[kenny]

Just now, leicsmac said:

...or improve the efficiency of solar panels and wind turbines. Which is possible and is in the pipeline.

 

But yes, a combined solution is called for.

Improving efficiency would be good but it won't be the game changer we need.

 

Got to be nuclear. These small modular reactors muted by rolls Royce need quick investment.

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, kenny said:

Improving efficiency would be good but it won't be the game changer we need.

 

Got to be nuclear. These small modular reactors muted by rolls Royce need quick investment.

Fair to say. Fast breeder for bigger reactors too.

 

But all of this is just holding time until we crack fusion tbh. Which we have to in order to satisfy what demand would be expected of a totally comfortable civilisation, tbh.

Edited 2 April 2022 by leicsmac