Solar panels advice

[fox_up_north]

I'm sat on 2 quotes for £4500 for 6-7 panels, at about 2.8 to 3.5kw. I'll be living alone soon and work from home. My consumption is about 2500kwh per year, likely to be less when I'm on my own.

 

The big drawback for me is the fact that you seem to get bugger all in winter. Currently, it's the high cost of electric that is giving me encouragement to do it, as I'd have cut about £30-40 off my bill this month. 

 

I plan to live in the house for a long time and I am pretty south facing. What does the hive mind think? 

[kenny]

1 hour ago, fox_up_north said:

I'm sat on 2 quotes for £4500 for 6-7 panels, at about 2.8 to 3.5kw. I'll be living alone soon and work from home. My consumption is about 2500kwh per year, likely to be less when I'm on my own.

 

The big drawback for me is the fact that you seem to get bugger all in winter. Currently, it's the high cost of electric that is giving me encouragement to do it, as I'd have cut about £30-40 off my bill this month. 

 

I plan to live in the house for a long time and I am pretty south facing. What does the hive mind think? 

https://octopus.energy/tesla-energy-plan-faq/

 

Get a quote on a system with a Tesla battery and look at their plan while you are making your mind up.

 

Also worth a read:

 

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/free-solar-panels/

[fox_up_north]

2 hours ago, kenny said:

https://octopus.energy/tesla-energy-plan-faq/

 

Get a quote on a system with a Tesla battery and look at their plan while you are making your mind up.

 

Also worth a read:

 

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/free-solar-panels/

Tesla looks far too big for me but I did a lot of maths this morning, using an example provided by a guy with figures dating back 3 years.

 

Seems that even a small battery of 2kw would make a difference. 

 

The free panels always come with caveats. I looked at one and it basically locked you in to allowing the supplier to use you as their generator for 25 years. 

 

[Wolfox]

Interesting regarding the costs…. Optimum array for most will ~4kw

 

if you could DIY it for around £3k it starts to make sense

 

i wouldn’t put them on my homes roof (would look odd on an older house)

 

I would, however, consider building a covered seating area at the bottom of the garden 4m x 4m…. I could then tilt the roof directly south 

 

We need PV panel prices to come down and as the demand is likely to high I can see a fairly chunky shift coming soon

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Apparently a system will pay for itself now in as little as 4 years. As soon as I'm able I'm slapping an array as big as possible on my roof. The quicker we can get self reliant the better. 

[FoxesDeb]

8 hours ago, Wolfox said:

Interesting regarding the costs…. Optimum array for most will ~4kw

 

if you could DIY it for around £3k it starts to make sense

 

i wouldn’t put them on my homes roof (would look odd on an older house)

 

I would, however, consider building a covered seating area at the bottom of the garden 4m x 4m…. I could then tilt the roof directly south 

 

We need PV panel prices to come down and as the demand is likely to high I can see a fairly chunky shift coming soon

Does that matter?

[Wolfox]

5 hours ago, FoxesDeb said:

Does that matter?

A good challenge and maybe it shouldn’t?  But, I’ve just put my heart and soul into sympathetically restoring a decrepit Edwardian house and put proper reclaimed slate back on the roof….  If I can find an an alternative way of putting solar panels on my home, then I think I should… 

[VLC86]

Getting an EV soon so I’ve moved onto this, almost seems a no brainer if you get a battery and plan to stay in your house for the next 5 years right?

 

The electrician who quoted us for the EV charger suggested a small set on our garage roof instead of the main roof.

[danny.]

On 16/08/2022 at 22:09, Wolfox said:

A good challenge and maybe it shouldn’t?  But, I’ve just put my heart and soul into sympathetically restoring a decrepit Edwardian house and put proper reclaimed slate back on the roof….  If I can find an an alternative way of putting solar panels on my home, then I think I should… 

I’ll be slapping some on mine as soon as I have the attic sorted!

[VLC86]

Got a few quotes for these recently and it’s a minefield.

 

My consumption is about 7000KW per year and I’m buying an EV. Does it sound ridiculous to buy a smart 16kw battery? That’s what I’ve been recommended but the figures didn’t add up, said I would only use 45% of it according to the company data but he claimed it would be more like 80%.

[Milo]

3 hours ago, Costock_Fox said:

Got a few quotes for these recently and it’s a minefield.

 

My consumption is about 7000KW per year and I’m buying an EV. Does it sound ridiculous to buy a smart 16kw battery? That’s what I’ve been recommended but the figures didn’t add up, said I would only use 45% of it according to the company data but he claimed it would be more like 80%.

I’ve just had this exact conversation with a mate of mine. 
The difference in prices for the panels, installation, tariffs, sell back price and battery/no battery are annoyingly variable. 
 

It should be a fairly binary decision based on usage, needs and time you expect to live in the property. 
 

But it’s not. 
 

Let me know how you get on.

[VLC86]

47 minutes ago, Milo said:

I’ve just had this exact conversation with a mate of mine. 
The difference in prices for the panels, installation, tariffs, sell back price and battery/no battery are annoyingly variable. 
 

It should be a fairly binary decision based on usage, needs and time you expect to live in the property. 
 

But it’s not. 
 

Let me know how you get on.

I don’t really know where to start with it now if im honest, feel like I need to speak to someone else who I can believe to tell me what I need to be self sufficient.

 

Very interesting to be told about Smart Batteries though and how you can set them to drain the grid between midnight at 4am when it’s about 7p per KW and then use it during the day. Some companies are about to even start paying people to do that which sounds mental.

[ian__marshall]

13 hours ago, Costock_Fox said:

Got a few quotes for these recently and it’s a minefield.

 

My consumption is about 7000KW per year and I’m buying an EV. Does it sound ridiculous to buy a smart 16kw battery? That’s what I’ve been recommended but the figures didn’t add up, said I would only use 45% of it according to the company data but he claimed it would be more like 80%.

I've decided I'm going to go down the solar route too. Had a meeting scheduled to discuss this month but it's been pushed back to next month which is frustrating. 

 

Anyway I was looking into this quite a bit pre price freeze and came to the conclusion that to minimise my monthly costs I was best to buy enough battery capacity to cover 80% of my maximum daily usage. From the research I did most panels apparently generate about 20% of their capacity during UK winter months, therefore I'd need to pull down the remaining balance from the grid. Best way to do that at the cheapest price would obviously be at night time using a tariff offering off peak price reductions. 

 

Now I appreciate my methodology isn't an exact science and many variables will impact the battery capacity required, i.e. I've based my requirements on the maximum amount of energy I use on a single day, that in our house is likely to be a weekend day when the whole family is at home and the TV is on for an extended period, the washer and dryer are both running for the majority of the day, etc. I'm sure there's a counter argument that economically the increased cost of adding extra battery capacity over the lifespan of the battery may cost more than actually paying the higher electricity price but as I mentioned above when I looked at this there was a lot of talk about about the price cap exceeding £7,700 pa so that wouldn't have been an issue. Whether the extra capacity makes sense now I'm not sure especially given that the batteries will need to replaced every 10/15years.

 

I looked at the Tesla tariff via Octopus but the Tesla batteries are significantly more expensive and whilst the tariff for selling back to the grid is higher I wasn't convinced that the additional costs involved made much economic sense as the benefits didn't seem to outweigh the costs. 

 

It's definitely a minefield but I think it's one of those where you just have to pick a path and hope for the best as everyone you speak to seems to have different opinions/experiences and I'm not convinced that the estimates produced by the panel providers are necessarily that accurate as I've seen lots of variability between those I've reached out to. 

[VLC86]

11 minutes ago, ian__marshall said:

I've decided I'm going to go down the solar route too. Had a meeting scheduled to discuss this month but it's been pushed back to next month which is frustrating. 

 

Anyway I was looking into this quite a bit pre price freeze and came to the conclusion that to minimise my monthly costs I was best to buy enough battery capacity to cover 80% of my maximum daily usage. From the research I did most panels apparently generate about 20% of their capacity during UK winter months, therefore I'd need to pull down the remaining balance from the grid. Best way to do that at the cheapest price would obviously be at night time using a tariff offering off peak price reductions. 

 

Now I appreciate my methodology isn't an exact science and many variables will impact the battery capacity required, i.e. I've based my requirements on the maximum amount of energy I use on a single day, that in our house is likely to be a weekend day when the whole family is at home and the TV is on for an extended period, the washer and dryer are both running for the majority of the day, etc. I'm sure there's a counter argument that economically the increased cost of adding extra battery capacity over the lifespan of the battery may cost more than actually paying the higher electricity price but as I mentioned above when I looked at this there was a lot of talk about about the price cap exceeding £7,700 pa so that wouldn't have been an issue. Whether the extra capacity makes sense now I'm not sure especially given that the batteries will need to replaced every 10/15years.

 

I looked at the Tesla tariff via Octopus but the Tesla batteries are significantly more expensive and whilst the tariff for selling back to the grid is higher I wasn't convinced that the additional costs involved made much economic sense as the benefits didn't seem to outweigh the costs. 

 

It's definitely a minefield but I think it's one of those where you just have to pick a path and hope for the best as everyone you speak to seems to have different opinions/experiences and I'm not convinced that the estimates produced by the panel providers are necessarily that accurate as I've seen lots of variability between those I've reached out to. 

Cheers.

 

Think I’ve made my mind up but would still like to know if I definitely need the capacity he has suggested.

 

He’s pitched it in the way that even though I didn’t want to pay X amount for the system, If I take out a loan and pay that off rather than my energy bill when that loan is gone I could potentially barely have to buy any energy from the grid ever again. And that’s purely based on the prices rising by 7% each year.

 

It is an eye watering initial outlay though but as are the prices, even with the action announced this week.

[Free Falling Foxes]

5 minutes ago, ian__marshall said:

It's definitely a minefield but I think it's one of those where you just have to pick a path and hope for the best as everyone you speak to seems to have different opinions/experiences and I'm not convinced that the estimates produced by the panel providers are necessarily that accurate as I've seen lots of variability between those I've reached out to. 

That is the problem.

 

There are obvious environmental benefits but the average household needs to carry out a cost/benefit analysis to see if they will be better off financially.

 

As you are finding, major scrutiny still leaves you unsure

 

Of course the chances of they being of cost benefit reduce still further the older you are.

 

The cost of panels will, hopefully, reduce or heavy subsidies will make them a greater proposition.

The technology too, will improve to make them even more efficient.

 

It needs to be an absolute no brainer that investing in panels and batteries makes sound economic sense to most, if not all. Many will then follow and that, of course, helps the planet

 

 

[ian__marshall]

6 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

Cheers.

 

Think I’ve made my mind up but would still like to know if I definitely need the capacity he has suggested.

 

He’s pitched it in the way that even though I didn’t want to pay X amount for the system, If I take out a loan and pay that off rather than my energy bill when that loan is gone I could potentially barely have to buy any energy from the grid ever again. And that’s purely based on the prices rising by 7% each year.

 

It is an eye watering initial outlay though but as are the prices, even with the action announced this week.

Not sure if you've come across it but EON are offering systems on 0% finance over 3 years. They may well be charging slightly more than other providers but it at least makes it manageable in terms of spreading the cost. The system I'm looking at will set me back by around £400 per month but factoring in the reduction in my energy costs over the course of a year when averaged out it'll cost me about £100 per month in real terms. Obviously after 3 years I'll no longer have that cost, so assuming prices don't suddenly decrease significantly (highly unlikely) then I should be far better off in the long term. 

[VLC86]

31 minutes ago, ian__marshall said:

Not sure if you've come across it but EON are offering systems on 0% finance over 3 years. They may well be charging slightly more than other providers but it at least makes it manageable in terms of spreading the cost. The system I'm looking at will set me back by around £400 per month but factoring in the reduction in my energy costs over the course of a year when averaged out it'll cost me about £100 per month in real terms. Obviously after 3 years I'll no longer have that cost, so assuming prices don't suddenly decrease significantly (highly unlikely) then I should be far better off in the long term. 

I haven’t seen that, cheers I’ll have a look.

[yorkie1999]

On 15/08/2022 at 10:31, fox_up_north said:

I'm sat on 2 quotes for £4500 for 6-7 panels, at about 2.8 to 3.5kw. I'll be living alone soon and work from home. My consumption is about 2500kwh per year, likely to be less when I'm on my own.

 

The big drawback for me is the fact that you seem to get bugger all in winter. Currently, it's the high cost of electric that is giving me encouragement to do it, as I'd have cut about £30-40 off my bill this month. 

 

I plan to live in the house for a long time and I am pretty south facing. What does the hive mind think? 

If it’s a sunny day, you’ll get more out of them in winter when it’s cold, they perform better when it’s not hot, although obviously when it’s hot in the summer there’s more daylight so you’ll get more kWh . In my experience, you’ll never get what the array is. I’ve got 18 which is 4.5 kw (250w panels) I’ve never seen over 3.5 kw, the recent heatwave I was getting about 3 kw.  I’m in work right now and I just looked, there’s 250 on the roof which are giving between 8 and 10kw in Leicestershire which is overcast with the sun trying to break through. So what I’m saying is it’s difficult to factor in the actual costs and savings etc.

 to add to that, mates a plumber and he installed solar heating panels along with a big water cylinder that feeds his existing hot water cylinder and he gets free hot water and heating for most of the year, don’t know the ins and outs but it works.

Edited 10 September 2022 by yorkie1999

[Countryfox]

My mate seems to be ahead of the game with this ..  he got his panels when they first came out and paid them off in a few years  ..  he’s also got a battery and is having all his heating via electric ..  he shows me his live time app that has his house in the middle and solar battery and grid round the outside with little arrows showing what is going from what to what ..  I think he is adding a few more panels to make it 100% solar energy only ..  he’s also got an electric car. If he does use the grid at the moment he has a very high day tariff with a very low night tariff to charge the batteries.  I can ask a few questions when I see him if you want .. 

[VLC86]

So I think I may have got my head around this and it sounds like the advice I’ve been given is about bang on so I’ll try to articulate it as best I can here.

 

I started out thinking I could make my house self sufficient on about £13k which is a fair way out. Current usage for me over a year is about 7500KW’s and I’m about to get an EV which is probably going to push it up to 11000KW which in real terms means I’m probably going to have bills of about £400 a month just for electric very shortly.

 

I’m very likely going to need to spend about double my original plan to mean I’ll be able to fill the car up and manage my current usage for the house which I initially said no chance however I’ll still be paying the £400 a month for the electric. Instead, I’m probably going to take out a loan for the majority of the money to get a huge system with a smart battery. That loan will be about the same amount but after around 6 years I’ll have paid that off (less than 5 when you factor in the savings on fuel), replenished my savings and then I’ll likely have not end up paying electric bills of around £20 a month in the winter, and be in credit during the summer months by selling excess back for the lifetime of the system which is guaranteed for 30 years.

 

Because of the size of the system I’ll need planning permission to ensure the local infrastructure can handle me sending that much energy back to the grid because in the summer I’m going to generate probably more than double what I use. The reason behind having a system to do that will be so that I can cover enough usage in the winter months to keep my bills that low.

 

The smart battery will pull energy from the grid at the off peak time at about 6p per KW and potentially il need to buy about 10 per day due to the drop off in sunlight.

 

It’s a scary thought financing it but considering I’ll be paying that anyway, it really sounds like a no brainer.

Edited 11 September 2022 by Costock_Fox

[jgtuk]

6 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

So I think I may have got my head around this and it sounds like the advice I’ve been given is about bang on so I’ll try to articulate it as best I can here.

 

I started out thinking I could make my house self sufficient on about £13k which is a fair way out. Current usage for me over a year is about 7500KW’s and I’m about to get an EV which is probably going to push it up to 11000KW which in real terms means I’m probably going to have bills of about £400 a month just for electric very shortly.

 

I’m very likely going to need to spend about double my original plan to mean I’ll be able to fill the car up and manage my current usage for the house which I initially said no chance however I’ll still be paying the £400 a month for the electric. Instead, I’m probably going to take out a loan for the majority of the money to get a huge system with a smart battery. That loan will be about the same amount but after around 6 years I’ll have paid that off (less than 5 when you factor in the savings on fuel), replenished my savings and then I’ll likely have not end up paying electric bills of around £20 a month in the winter, and be in credit during the summer months by selling excess back for the lifetime of the system which is guaranteed for 30 years.

 

It’s a scary thought financing it but considering I’ll be paying that anyway, it really sounds like a no brainer.

It's a minefield out there.

I'm just about to exchange contracts on an empty property (not lived in for ~5 years). It has 3 barns with it, one being south facing and 30m long. My idea was just to fill one 30m x 5m pitch with panels and add batteries at a later date. Spoken on telephone to several installers who have given slightly different advice. Once property completes I'll get site surveys done and might have a more realistic idea. Main house uses oil fired central heating, open fires, a massive woodburner and mains electricity currently (no mains gas). I'm going to see this winter out as is and get some prices for a ground scource heat pump (house is isolated and has ~3 acres so plenty of room for trenches).

It has a borehole and septic tank so minimum bills there.

I have to get the house roof sorted first though, unless I decide to keep the indoor water feature...

[VLC86]

18 minutes ago, jgtuk said:

It's a minefield out there.

I'm just about to exchange contracts on an empty property (not lived in for ~5 years). It has 3 barns with it, one being south facing and 30m long. My idea was just to fill one 30m x 5m pitch with panels and add batteries at a later date. Spoken on telephone to several installers who have given slightly different advice. Once property completes I'll get site surveys done and might have a more realistic idea. Main house uses oil fired central heating, open fires, a massive woodburner and mains electricity currently (no mains gas). I'm going to see this winter out as is and get some prices for a ground scource heat pump (house is isolated and has ~3 acres so plenty of room for trenches).

It has a borehole and septic tank so minimum bills there.

I have to get the house roof sorted first though, unless I decide to keep the indoor water feature...

House sounds like it will be great when you do it up. 

 

The guy we spoke to from this company uses the same consumption as me and has shown us his bills and set up to confirm exactly it is likely to work which has helped us but yeah it is a mine field.

 

I am a little bit shocked that companies haven’t spent a lot of time promoting this approach though which is what is causing the slight bit of doubt.

[Dahnsouff]

We tried repeatedly to get Solar Panels, but was told it was not possible, not due to orientation but due to amount of roof windows and solar panels not fitting around it

 

We ended up going ASHP, but was bloody annoying 

[Milo]

18 hours ago, Costock_Fox said:

So I think I may have got my head around this and it sounds like the advice I’ve been given is about bang on so I’ll try to articulate it as best I can here.

 

I started out thinking I could make my house self sufficient on about £13k which is a fair way out. Current usage for me over a year is about 7500KW’s and I’m about to get an EV which is probably going to push it up to 11000KW which in real terms means I’m probably going to have bills of about £400 a month just for electric very shortly.

 

I’m very likely going to need to spend about double my original plan to mean I’ll be able to fill the car up and manage my current usage for the house which I initially said no chance however I’ll still be paying the £400 a month for the electric. Instead, I’m probably going to take out a loan for the majority of the money to get a huge system with a smart battery. That loan will be about the same amount but after around 6 years I’ll have paid that off (less than 5 when you factor in the savings on fuel), replenished my savings and then I’ll likely have not end up paying electric bills of around £20 a month in the winter, and be in credit during the summer months by selling excess back for the lifetime of the system which is guaranteed for 30 years.

 

Because of the size of the system I’ll need planning permission to ensure the local infrastructure can handle me sending that much energy back to the grid because in the summer I’m going to generate probably more than double what I use. The reason behind having a system to do that will be so that I can cover enough usage in the winter months to keep my bills that low.

 

The smart battery will pull energy from the grid at the off peak time at about 6p per KW and potentially il need to buy about 10 per day due to the drop off in sunlight.

 

It’s a scary thought financing it but considering I’ll be paying that anyway, it really sounds like a no brainer.

Thanks for sharing this, mate. 
 

So you reckon for about a £20-25k outlay you could be pretty self sufficient and have negligible monthly bills. 

 

I checked my annual usage over the weekend, and it’s around 7,000kw’s, so similar to your example. 
 

Is this an installation company that you’ve gone to, or an energy company? 

[Zear0]

Anyone know if there any cars with the capability, or bespoke solutions, to implement EV battery storage for domestic use yet? 

 

Tempted with solar myself, but only makes sense with the accompanying storage as we're rarely at home during peak generating hours. Seems ridiculous to pay for a 6.8 kWh battery for the house when I have a 64 kWh sat on my driveway (I'm a hippy who cycles to work so the car will be at home even if I'm not).