Brad Young

[Foxy-Lady]

21 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

The player has to do some work too, you have to have the raw materials in the first place. 

You are of course right....but this is also the classic fall back position of coaches in Academy and Youth Football that leads to questions never being asked/answered and their own abilities/success never being challenged. 

 

" If the player succeeds, i'll let everyone know what part i played in it so it shows everyone what a good coach I am......if the player fails, its because of him and its got nothing to do with me"

 

Everyone seems to want to take the credit for Barnes, KDH & Thomas......No-one has ever accepted any responsibility for the talented players who failed to develop through our system and reach their potential (eg Leyton Ndukwu etc..).

 

Almost against all laws of probability that there has not been ONE single young goalkeeper born within the Leicestershire area within the last 25 years that could have made a professional goalkeeper with the right level of coaching and development...?!? 

[Aus Fox]

8 hours ago, Foxy-Lady said:

You are of course right....but this is also the classic fall back position of coaches in Academy and Youth Football that leads to questions never being asked/answered and their own abilities/success never being challenged. 

 

" If the player succeeds, i'll let everyone know what part i played in it so it shows everyone what a good coach I am......if the player fails, its because of him and its got nothing to do with me"

 

Everyone seems to want to take the credit for Barnes, KDH & Thomas......No-one has ever accepted any responsibility for the talented players who failed to develop through our system and reach their potential (eg Leyton Ndukwu etc..).

 

Almost against all laws of probability that there has not been ONE single young goalkeeper born within the Leicestershire area within the last 25 years that could have made a professional goalkeeper with the right level of coaching and development...?!? 

On goal keeping, I don’t think it’s just a Leicester problem, who was the last world class English goalkeeper to come through? Has there been a World class goal keeper since Seaman? I don’t think there had been.

It’s such a specialist position that teams can’t afford to through someone in and let them grow, like with KDH, Barnes and Thomas they can make mistakes and grow from it, a goalkeeper error cost you the game often. 
As for coaching, the players do need to take a lot of the responsibility themselves, if no one had come through, then you can look at what is going on. But KDH, Barnes, Choudhury, Thomas etc. have proven if you have the right mentality and are willing to put in the hard work, alongside the talent you will make it here. 
Lots of players won’t make it, because talent is only one small part of what you need to be a professional footballer. You can have all the talent in the world, but, if the attitude isn’t right, the work ethic isn’t there and you don’t have the mentality or desire to do whatever it takes you won’t make it. 

 

[He aint bald]

9 hours ago, Foxy-Lady said:

 

 

Almost against all laws of probability that there has not been ONE single young goalkeeper born within the Leicestershire area within the last 25 years that could have made a professional goalkeeper with the right level of coaching and development...?!? 

I gave it a go Foxy-Lady. If you don't want to wade through it all, I am agreeing with you.

 

Born in the last 25 years, 15 years or older, born 1997 to 2007.

UK births averaging 700,000 a year and Leicestershire births around 12,000 a year

Rounded up, 2 per cent of UK births, born in Leicestershire

 

Around 120 Professional Teams in the UK x an Average of 5 Pros per Club x Average Career Length of 5 years into 10 said year period.
(The Formula PTUK x APC x (ACL/10) uses aproximated values which require verification and subsequent recaculation)

 

Therefore, 2% of 1200 goalkeeper jobs in the last 10 years = 24

 

There should have been 24 Leicestershire born professional goalkeepers over the age of 15 playing in the UK in the last 10 years.

 

Figures do not take into account county or international migration or employment visas. Someone else can do the maths on that one

 

 

Edit.  the wording of born in the last 25 years confused me but, you meant during the last 25 years....... keeping it simple, 24x 2.5  equals 60 over a 25 year period

Edited 22 June 2022 by He aint bald

[He aint bald]

The thing is, how many class player has Leicestershire produced in general?

 

Even in a more insular English football age I can only think of 3 class players that came through in my lifetime (current squad members excepted).

 

Lineker, Dublin and Heskey, and they all went to the same school and what did they do? Closed down the school and wiped all trace of it off the internet. 

 

[jayfox26]

On 20/06/2022 at 02:26, KFS said:

 

Without even clicking on that video I know what it is. "He's Finnish" "he's not finished he's only 28". Superb! 😂

[jayfox26]

On 21/06/2022 at 11:16, Foxy-Lady said:

Under the current GK Coaching set-up, i cant actually recall us producing a single keeper that has gone on to develop into a top-class keeper...?!?   Correct me if im wrong but last one i recall was Adam Smith about 10 years ago....and he ended up playing in Lg2

 

Most of the keepers we now have were bought in at +16 years old (Iversen and Young were 19) which makes me wonder WHY have we never been able to actually produce a keeper through our own system? 

How come we seem able to develop outfield players from the Leicestershire area (Barnes, HKDH, Thomas etc) ......but our academy system is incapable of developing goalkeepers?

 

Is there something about Leicestershire that doesn't breed good goalkeepers......or are the Yth Development GK coaches paid to simply work with the talent that other clubs have developed for us? 

 

 

Didn't Conrad Logan come through our youth team? Absolute legend of the club! 

[Lesta Legend]

9 hours ago, Foxy-Lady said:

You are of course right....but this is also the classic fall back position of coaches in Academy and Youth Football that leads to questions never being asked/answered and their own abilities/success never being challenged. 

 

" If the player succeeds, i'll let everyone know what part i played in it so it shows everyone what a good coach I am......if the player fails, its because of him and its got nothing to do with me"

 

Everyone seems to want to take the credit for Barnes, KDH & Thomas......No-one has ever accepted any responsibility for the talented players who failed to develop through our system and reach their potential (eg Leyton Ndukwu etc..).

 

Almost against all laws of probability that there has not been ONE single young goalkeeper born within the Leicestershire area within the last 25 years that could have made a professional goalkeeper with the right level of coaching and development...?!? 

Teddy sharman-lowe Leicester lad. will likely make it as a pro, Chelsea and current England u19 keeper. Released by city. 

[Foxy-Lady]

On 22/06/2022 at 23:08, Aus Fox said:

On goal keeping, I don’t think it’s just a Leicester problem, who was the last world class English goalkeeper to come through? Has there been a World class goal keeper since Seaman? I don’t think there had been.

It’s such a specialist position that teams can’t afford to through someone in and let them grow, like with KDH, Barnes and Thomas they can make mistakes and grow from it, a goalkeeper error cost you the game often. 
As for coaching, the players do need to take a lot of the responsibility themselves, if no one had come through, then you can look at what is going on. But KDH, Barnes, Choudhury, Thomas etc. have proven if you have the right mentality and are willing to put in the hard work, alongside the talent you will make it here. 
Lots of players won’t make it, because talent is only one small part of what you need to be a professional footballer. You can have all the talent in the world, but, if the attitude isn’t right, the work ethic isn’t there and you don’t have the mentality or desire to do whatever it takes you won’t make it. 

 

Agree with you 100% on the attitude and work ethic....but this applies to almost every facet and career choice and NOT just goalkeepers from Leicestershire.

 

But are you suggesting that there has not been a single GK in LCFC academy in the last 10 years who didn't have the right attitude and work ethic.....or is it just some of the outfield players from Leics that have showed the right ethic?  

 

As for the dearth of "world class english Goalkeepers" in recent years, thats a fair point also......but there is a big difference between our Academy system/coaches NOT producing a world class goalkeeper.....and NOT producing a single goalkeeper capable of playing in the Top3 leagues in english football.

 

Pickford (Sunderland), Henderson, Johnstone (both Man Utd), Ramsdale (Shef Utd) & Pope are all Top Class keepers playing in the PL who have been produced by other clubs academy systems......and there were several other U-25 English GKs playing in the championship last season produced through academy systems....but NONE that have been produced through ours.

 

 

Don't want to labour a point.....just intrigued why questions arent being asked of the GK coaches at LCFC who have a Zero% success rate in the last 7-10 years...?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 25 June 2022 by Foxy-Lady

[Foxy-Lady]

On 22/06/2022 at 23:29, He aint bald said:

I gave it a go Foxy-Lady. If you don't want to wade through it all, I am agreeing with you.

 

Born in the last 25 years, 15 years or older, born 1997 to 2007.

UK births averaging 700,000 a year and Leicestershire births around 12,000 a year

Rounded up, 2 per cent of UK births, born in Leicestershire

 

Around 120 Professional Teams in the UK x an Average of 5 Pros per Club x Average Career Length of 5 years into 10 said year period.
(The Formula PTUK x APC x (ACL/10) uses aproximated values which require verification and subsequent recaculation)

 

Therefore, 2% of 1200 goalkeeper jobs in the last 10 years = 24

 

There should have been 24 Leicestershire born professional goalkeepers over the age of 15 playing in the UK in the last 10 years.

 

Figures do not take into account county or international migration or employment visas. Someone else can do the maths on that one

 

 

Edit.  the wording of born in the last 25 years confused me but, you meant during the last 25 years....... keeping it simple, 24x 2.5  equals 60 over a 25 year period

Its obviously not an exact science and you do need to consider that it is MALE births only that would be relevant......but i think you get my point that it seems illogical and against probability that not ONE single goalkeeper has been produced through the LCFC Goalkeeping academy in the last 10 years.....and no questions ever seem to be asked about why??

 

Obviously being a GK coach at LCFC Academy is not a results based position...

[Claridge]

On 19/06/2022 at 18:31, Miquel The Work Geordie said:

He big strong he good with feet he the new Casper 

kaspers neither

 

[Webbo]

Unlike outfield players ,goal keepers only tend to play in one position,they don't get injured that often and can play to an older age than average. Also, goalkeeping errors nearly always cost goals, so giving inexperienced players a game is risky.Our top 2 divisions also very often recruit from abroad.

 

That limits the opportunities available .

 

Maybe we just haven't found an exceptional talent from the local area that can make it to the top. It's not necessarily the fact that our academy staff are all useless,as some on here would have you believe.

[foxinsocks]

8 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Unlike outfield players ,goal keepers only tend to play in one position,they don't get injured that often and can play to an older age than average. Also, goalkeeping errors nearly always cost goals, so giving inexperienced players a game is risky.Our top 2 divisions also very often recruit from abroad.

 

That limits the opportunities available .

 

Maybe we just haven't found an exceptional talent from the local area that can make it to the top. It's not necessarily the fact that our academy staff are all useless,as some on here would have you believe.

no necessarily - but maybe?

[Foxdiamond]

17 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Unlike outfield players ,goal keepers only tend to play in one position,they don't get injured that often and can play to an older age than average. Also, goalkeeping errors nearly always cost goals, so giving inexperienced players a game is risky.Our top 2 divisions also very often recruit from abroad.

 

That limits the opportunities available .

 

Maybe we just haven't found an exceptional talent from the local area that can make it to the top. It's not necessarily the fact that our academy staff are all useless,as some on here would have you believe.

Tend to agree. Shows how exceptional Shilton was. It was obvious from a very young age he was destined for the top. 

[jayfox26]

On 21/06/2022 at 15:13, Nod.E said:

To be fair, although my last post was a joke, there is a grain of truth in there.

 

Why release a goalkeeper at 8 because I couldn't at the time kick the ball very well? That sort of stuff can be trained quite easily. They said at the time that I had the goalkeeping attributes required, just needed to work on my kicking/distribution. 

 

Surely that's the easiest thing to fix? So take what talent was there and improve the dodgy bit. 

 

I'll get over it one day...

Same thing happened to me except I was good at kicking but had no goalkeeping attributes. To this day I don't understand why I never made it 

[RobHawk]

Viktor johansson? 

[Sly]

On 22/06/2022 at 14:53, Foxy-Lady said:

You are of course right....but this is also the classic fall back position of coaches in Academy and Youth Football that leads to questions never being asked/answered and their own abilities/success never being challenged. 

 

" If the player succeeds, i'll let everyone know what part i played in it so it shows everyone what a good coach I am......if the player fails, its because of him and its got nothing to do with me"

 

Everyone seems to want to take the credit for Barnes, KDH & Thomas......No-one has ever accepted any responsibility for the talented players who failed to develop through our system and reach their potential (eg Leyton Ndukwu etc..).

 

Almost against all laws of probability that there has not been ONE single young goalkeeper born within the Leicestershire area within the last 25 years that could have made a professional goalkeeper with the right level of coaching and development...?!? 

Chris Kirkland was from Barwell …. In Leicestershire. 

[Guest]

If we accept that we live on a big spinning 4.5 billion year old rock, all life upon which emerged from one common ancestor, is it really so hard to believe there haven't been many good keepers born locally recently?

[lfu]

42 minutes ago, RobHawk said:

Viktor johansson? 

We signed him on a free from Aston Villa in 2018 (and before that he was at Hammarby), he didn't go through our academy

[He aint bald]

9 hours ago, Foxy-Lady said:

Its obviously not an exact science and you do need to consider that it is MALE births only that would be relevant......but i think you get my point that it seems illogical and against probability that not ONE single goalkeeper has been produced through the LCFC Goalkeeping academy in the last 10 years.....and no questions ever seem to be asked about why??

 

Everything has an exact science it is just that we do not always understand it yet.

I rewrote the formula and now estimate there should have been 12 pro Leicestershire born keepers through the leagues in the last 10 years

 

Reading through the thread, several current names have been mentioned with other clubs, suggesting no genetic Leicestershire butterfinger trait. A factor that I had already dismissed based on national dropped pint statistics.

 

The most compelling theories suggested in this thread,

 

Poor coaching and limited top level opportunities. However, I suspect a great talent would develop itself elsewhere, Chris kirkland style, and expose these flaws

 

Therefore going with this, spinning rock and common ancestry apparently equated to statistical flunctauations.

 

4 hours ago, Guest said:

If we accept that we live on a big spinning 4.5 billion year old rock, all life upon which emerged from one common ancestor, is it really so hard to believe there haven't been many good keepers born locally recently?

sorted

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bert]

On 21/06/2022 at 15:13, Nod.E said:

To be fair, although my last post was a joke, there is a grain of truth in there.

 

Why release a goalkeeper at 8 because I couldn't at the time kick the ball very well? That sort of stuff can be trained quite easily. They said at the time that I had the goalkeeping attributes required, just needed to work on my kicking/distribution. 

 

Surely that's the easiest thing to fix? So take what talent was there and improve the dodgy bit. 

 

I'll get over it one day...

Sounds like it too. 

[Aus Fox]

23 hours ago, Foxy-Lady said:

Agree with you 100% on the attitude and work ethic....but this applies to almost every facet and career choice and NOT just goalkeepers from Leicestershire.

 

But are you suggesting that there has not been a single GK in LCFC academy in the last 10 years who didn't have the right attitude and work ethic.....or is it just some of the outfield players from Leics that have showed the right ethic?  

 

As for the dearth of "world class english Goalkeepers" in recent years, thats a fair point also......but there is a big difference between our Academy system/coaches NOT producing a world class goalkeeper.....and NOT producing a single goalkeeper capable of playing in the Top3 leagues in english football.

 

Pickford (Sunderland), Henderson, Johnstone (both Man Utd), Ramsdale (Shef Utd) & Pope are all Top Class keepers playing in the PL who have been produced by other clubs academy systems......and there were several other U-25 English GKs playing in the championship last season produced through academy systems....but NONE that have been produced through ours.

 

 

Don't want to labour a point.....just intrigued why questions arent being asked of the GK coaches at LCFC who have a Zero% success rate in the last 7-10 years...?

 

 

 

 

 

Have they had zero success rate? Just because they weren’t born in Leicester, does our club not get any credit for developing the career of players they have brought in young?

I’m not sure at what age the various good goalkeepers first joined us, but in recent years Iversen and Johansson have  come through our academy system and played exceptionally well at championship level.

Odunze has been called up for USA internationals, Stolarczyk has played for Poland U21s and by all accounts did very well on loan in Scotland.

Going back further in my memory, Adam Smith did okay at lower league level - was he a local lad? Was decent from what I remember at one stage? - didn’t he play for us in our first season back up?? 
Max Bromley was another highly rated keeper, what ever happened to him?

I’m sure there have been others along the way too.

 

[Foxy-Lady]

5 hours ago, Aus Fox said:

Have they had zero success rate? Just because they weren’t born in Leicester, does our club not get any credit for developing the career of players they have brought in young?

I’m not sure at what age the various good goalkeepers first joined us, but in recent years Iversen and Johansson have  come through our academy system and played exceptionally well at championship level.

Odunze has been called up for USA internationals, Stolarczyk has played for Poland U21s and by all accounts did very well on loan in Scotland.

Going back further in my memory, Adam Smith did okay at lower league level - was he a local lad? Was decent from what I remember at one stage? - didn’t he play for us in our first season back up?? 
Max Bromley was another highly rated keeper, what ever happened to him?

I’m sure there have been others along the way too.

 

Iversen was signed at 19 years old and already an established Danish Youth international so certainly not a product of our GK development system.

Johansson was signed at 19 from Aston Villa and was already a pro keeper so it was Villa's academy who developed him.

Odunze was only recently signed and already playing for USA

 

Stolarczyk is the one possible outlier as he was signed as a 16 year old Polish intnl so our Yth GK coaches can reasonably claim some credit for his onward development

 

Adam Smith was signed from Middlesborough as an 18 year old left LCFC 7 years ago so it would be a stretch to for the current GK coaches to claim to have developed him.

 

And Max Bramley is the only local born player you mention who came right through our academy system and was considered a very fine prospect until he reached 18.....and then simply disappeared when he became a pro keeper.

 

As for your point about other GKs coming through our academy system and finding success elsewhere, i cannot find any evidence of any which is why i trawled through the available data.

if you wish to correct me then please feel free to do so.....but simply saying there were probably others is not really an evidence based point.  

[Lesta2014]

4 hours ago, Foxy-Lady said:

Iversen was signed at 19 years old and already an established Danish Youth international so certainly not a product of our GK development system.

Johansson was signed at 19 from Aston Villa and was already a pro keeper so it was Villa's academy who developed him.

Odunze was only recently signed and already playing for USA

 

Stolarczyk is the one possible outlier as he was signed as a 16 year old Polish intnl so our Yth GK coaches can reasonably claim some credit for his onward development

 

Adam Smith was signed from Middlesborough as an 18 year old left LCFC 7 years ago so it would be a stretch to for the current GK coaches to claim to have developed him.

 

And Max Bramley is the only local born player you mention who came right through our academy system and was considered a very fine prospect until he reached 18.....and then simply disappeared when he became a pro keeper.

 

As for your point about other GKs coming through our academy system and finding success elsewhere, i cannot find any evidence of any which is why i trawled through the available data.

if you wish to correct me then please feel free to do so.....but simply saying there were probably others is not really an evidence based point.  

Bramley is playing for Barwell I believe 

[CosbehFox]

Tbf this point about keepers isn’t particularly related to just Leicester. 
 

Ramsdale (Bolton), Pope (Ipswich/Bury Town) and Henderson (Carlisle) for example were all signed during their youth career before signing professional terms. 
 

I’ve just counted at least 8 of the existing no. 1s in the PL were ‘poached’ in their youth careers 

[Foxy-Lady]

On 25/06/2022 at 17:07, Sly said:

Chris Kirkland was from Barwell …. In Leicestershire. 

He was....and he is the only GK i can remember from Leics in recent times who has played professionally at the top level. 

 

Is it just a coincidence that he was never at LCFC academy...?!?