Boubakary Soumare

[moore_94]

1 minute ago, An Sionnach said:

I thought it was Fofana at £35 million. We would have to equal that with De Ketelaere.

Pretty sure Fofana was £30m possibly rising to about £35m

[murphy]

2 hours ago, Richard said:

Being a professional athlete and striving to be one of the best people in the world at what you do is a little different to doing your Year 9 chemistry homework. 

Ok, I get you're being facetious but the poster I was replying to literally asked about Brits working abroad so I replied, but please explain to me why a professional athlete can't perform his duties due to homesickness?   The key word here being professiona/.  I just can't bring myself to feel any sympathy for him, he has let us down and I would much rather introduce his rather ample backside to a size nine boot.

 

He is a long way short at being one of the best in the word btw.

 

Edited 20 July 2022 by murphy

[StanSP]

 

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, murphy said:

Ok, I get you're being facetious but explain to me why a professional athlete can't perform his duties due to homesickness?   The key word here being professiona/.  I just can't bring myself to feel any sympathy for him, he has let us down and I would much rather introduce his rather ample backside to a size nine boot.

 

He is a long way short at being one of the best in the word btw.

 

Being a professional doesn't mean you can always do your job really well with no difficulties, nor does earning lots of money. Why would a professional athlete not be able to feel homesick and why would that not be able to impact the way he works?

 

For the record, I am glad he seems to be on the way out as he looked nowhere near the pace in basically every appearance I can recall.

[indierich06]

So we basically just want to get back what we paid for him. Think that's fair enough tbh, hopefully Monaco stump up and we can get this one finished sooner rather than later.

[murphy]

52 minutes ago, Guest said:

Being a professional doesn't mean you can always do your job really well with no difficulties, nor does earning lots of money. Why would a professional athlete not be able to feel homesick and why would that not be able to impact the way he works?

 

For the record, I am glad he seems to be on the way out as he looked nowhere near the pace in basically every appearance I can recall.

Being professional means that you are able to do your job in difficult circumstances imo.  

 

If it is just homesickness I don't know why so many supporters seem to indulge this as a valid excuse for failing to do his job.

 

 

Edited 20 July 2022 by murphy

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, murphy said:

Being professional means that you are able to do your job in difficult circumstances imo.  

 

 

And that's fine, but, at the risk of being pedantic, that's not what is meant by the term professional athlete is it?

[Dan]

10 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...he was a member of a title-winning club, beating PSG to the title!!!

It wasn't as if he played 6 games in the season, he played the whole season, he has already succeeded in that league, and in a team environment, he has little to prove.

Was their fourth best midfielder.

[StanSP]

9 minutes ago, murphy said:

Being professional means that you are able to do your job in difficult circumstances imo.  

 

If it is just homesickness I don't know why so many supporters seem to indulge this as a valid excuse for failing to do his job.

 

 

Being a professional doesn't mean you automatically can overcome the difficult circumstances. 

 

Being professional doesn't excuse any mental wellbeing issues, under which homesickness could be categorised under. 

 

Ultimately, different people react differently to various challenges. I don't get why people overlook any particular challenge just because they're classed as a professional. 

[murphy]

2 minutes ago, Guest said:

And that's fine, but, at the risk of being pedantic, that's not what is meant by the term professional athlete is it?

I don't mind a spot of pedantry.  It is not a definition but to 'be professional' is a term that you must have heard of applied to people behaving in a certain manner and performing their duties in a certain way.  

[Guest]

1 minute ago, murphy said:

I don't mind a spot of pedantry.  It is not a definition but to 'be professional' is a term that you must have heard of applied to people behaving in a certain manner and performing their duties in a certain way.  

Well yeah but a professional athlete as in the context of the post you replied to isn't an athlete who works very diligently and is unflappable in the face of pressure (though obviously they often are). It's someone whose (yes, often well paid) job is to be an athlete and the idea that that should render them immune to homesickness or any sort of mental issue is, let's be fair, insane.

[SafewayFox]

12 hours ago, NasPb said:

I don't think it's that. His problem is mental. He's not used to being out of france, and clearly has had emotional slash personal issues. Will be good elsewhere. Peace to him

100% disagree.

 

I’m not disputing that he has had known personal issues (Rodgers stated that a couple of times didn’t he) BUT his work ethic and awful positional sense or even worse, lack of effort to track a man mean he is far from cut out for the thrust of the PL.

[sacreblueits442]

28 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

Was their fourth best midfielder.

...seems to have been pretty involved to me!!!

Squad games: 37  

Starts: 21

Substitute Appearance: 11

On the Bench: 5

[murphy]

33 minutes ago, Guest said:

Well yeah but a professional athlete as in the context of the post you replied to isn't an athlete who works very diligently and is unflappable in the face of pressure (though obviously they often are). It's someone whose (yes, often well paid) job is to be an athlete and the idea that that should render them immune to homesickness or any sort of mental issue is, let's be fair, insane.

I never said that a professional athlete would be immune to homesickness so please don't try to imply that I did.  He might well be unhappy I don't dsipute that.  I am saying that professionalism means that he should still be able to perform.  Character is something that elite footballers are expected to possess along with the ability to perform under pressure.  Many that have talent but lack character fall by the wayside.

 

Look, you and I are not going to agree on this, that's fine, let's agree to differ.

 

 

Edited 20 July 2022 by murphy

[Webbo]

If this goes through,things could start moving elsewhere too. All of a sudden the pressure to sell others will lessen and clubs will have to decide if they're serious about bidding for the likes of Your or Cags.

[Bordersfox]

11 minutes ago, murphy said:

I never said that a professional athlete would be immune to homesickness so please don't try to imply that I did.  He might well be unhappy I don't dsipute that.  I am saying that professionalism means that he should still be able to perform.  Character is something that elite footballers are expected to possess along with the ability to perform under pressure.  Many that have talent but lack character fall by the wayside.

 

Look, you and I are not going to agree on this, that's fine, let's agree to differ.

 

 

Genuine question, do you think Ben Stokes, who recently had to take time away from cricket for his mental wellbeing lacks the character of a top athelete?  That he can't deal with pressure? 

 

I am not equating Stokes circumstances to Soumare's. 

 

I  am just saying we need to be very careful about judging sportsmen on character when we have absolutely no idea what is going on in their heads.  Being unhappy, being unable to perform because of being unhappy has nowt to do with character surely.  And money really is quite irrelevant to the issue of mental health or wellbeing .

 

Maybe Sourmare is lazy.  Maybe he's homesick.  Maybe he's had issues we aren't even aware of.  Who knows, I don't and you don't.  I'm pretty sure your size 9 won't help though.  

   

However, suggesting a professional anybody should be able to perform just because they earn a shit load of money is an antiquated view in my opinion.  You are, of course, entitled to yours.  

[Pliskin]

If we can sack Bouba off and potentially either Cags, Praet or Perez for reasonable money then we should be able to complete the business we want to do. 
 

Madueke would the the only potential hurdle, he is likely to cost south of £30m.

 

Colwill I reckon £18m would get him. And I’m not too familiar with the chap from Celtic. 

[murphy]

4 minutes ago, Bordersfox said:

Genuine question, do you think Ben Stokes, who recently had to take time away from cricket for his mental wellbeing lacks the character of a top athelete?  That he can't deal with pressure? 

 

I am not equating Stokes circumstances to Soumare's. 

 

I  am just saying we need to be very careful about judging sportsmen on character when we have absolutely no idea what is going on in their heads.  Being unhappy, being unable to perform because of being unhappy has nowt to do with character surely.  And money really is quite irrelevant to the issue of mental health or wellbeing .

 

Maybe Sourmare is lazy.  Maybe he's homesick.  Maybe he's had issues we aren't even aware of.  Who knows, I don't and you don't.  I'm pretty sure your size 9 won't help though.  

   

However, suggesting a professional anybody should be able to perform just because they earn a shit load of money is an antiquated view in my opinion.  You are, of course, entitled to yours.  

I have been careful that when I am talking about Soumare I am talking about homesickness because that was what was being mooted as a reason for the rubbish he churned out last year..  Yes, I am speculating, as was, OP, but I am saying that homesickness might well make him unhappy but, in isolation, should not be an excuse for a professional athlete with a good reputation to produce dross.

 

As you say, maybe he has deeper issues, but that's not what I'm talking about.  You can't just lump everything under one mental health umbrella and treat it all the same.

 

Your last sentence is not my view and if you think it is then you haven't been paying attention.  

 

 

[NasPb]

1 hour ago, SafewayFox said:

100% disagree.

 

I’m not disputing that he has had known personal issues (Rodgers stated that a couple of times didn’t he) BUT his work ethic and awful positional sense or even worse, lack of effort to track a man mean he is far from cut out for the thrust of the PL.

I agree, but i thjnk it's not down to being lazy, i think it's down to the mental aspect. You made a good point with all you said though. Regardless need to get rid quickly and that's it

[StanSP]

18 minutes ago, murphy said:

but I am saying that homesickness might well make him unhappy but, in isolation, should not be an excuse for a professional athlete with a good reputation to produce dross.

I think, therefore, you underestimate how mental health can have an impact on anyone's performance, be it professional or not. 

[murphy]

15 minutes ago, StanSP said:

I think, therefore, you underestimate how mental health can have an impact on anyone's performance, be it professional or not. 

We're talking specifically about homesickness here as opposed to any kind of diagnosable or recognisable mental health condition such as depression which is a different thing altogether and sonething I would not seek to trivialise.  

 

I sometimes think that the pendulum has swung too far from the outdated stiff upper lip thinking of the past into some kind of nebulous woolly modern thinking which actually teaches a lack of resilience and therefore becomes counter-productive. One for the unpopular opinions thread, no doubt.

Edited 20 July 2022 by murphy

[Bordersfox]

30 minutes ago, murphy said:

I have been careful that when I am talking about Soumare I am talking about homesickness because that was what was being mooted as a reason for the rubbish he churned out last year..  Yes, I am speculating, as was, OP, but I am saying that homesickness might well make him unhappy but, in isolation, should not be an excuse for a professional athlete with a good reputation to produce dross.

 

As you say, maybe he has deeper issues, but that's not what I'm talking about.  You can't just lump everything under one mental health umbrella and treat it all the same.

 

Your last sentence is not my view and if you think it is then you haven't been paying attention.  

 

 

I wasn't lumping everything together and I can assure you I have paid close attention.   

 

You said that professionals and elite footballers should have the character to perform under difficult circumstances.  I don't disagree.  My point is you seemed to me to be conflating character and happiness.  Perhaps I misconstrued you.  

 

The two are not the same.  That's why I gave the example of Ben Stokes.  Clearly a man of immense character.  Also for a time unable to perform professionally because he was unhappy.  The amount he earns is irrelevant and his character is not in question.  That was really my point.  Not individual circumstances of one sportsman or another.  I just felt he was a good example to make the point. 

 

I am not seeking to be confrontational, quite frankly I wouldn't be surprised if he just doesn't fancy it and wants to bugger off to a league he knows.  But we don't know that and we don't know whether he just missed home a bit or felt crippling anxiety being away from home. 

 

[sdb]

4 hours ago, murphy said:

What is it that he potentially offers that you think we need?

 

Genuinely baffled.

A physical presence in midfield. 

[StanSP]

17 minutes ago, murphy said:

We're talking specifically about homesickness here as opposed to any kind of diagnosable or recognisable mental health condition such as depression which is a different thing altogether and sonething I would not seek to trivialise.  

 

I sometimes think that the pendulum has swung too far from the outdated stiff upper lip thinking of the past into some kind of nebulous woolly modern thinking which actually teaches a lack of resilience and therefore becomes counter-productive. One for the unpopular opinions thread, no doubt.

I know that's what we're specifically talking about. 

But if you're thinking about homesickness, surely you have to consider the impact of the players happiness or feeling generally? And therefore the knock on effect on the wellbeing of that person. 

 

I think the pendulum has swung, but I don't see that as a bad thing - at least not to the point where someone who has issues should be ignored or dismissed. Resilience isn't borne out of the stiff-upper lip aspect. You can build resilience by discussing your issues, finding out how to overcome them and being better prepared to face them next time. 

[murphy]

3 minutes ago, Bordersfox said:

I wasn't lumping everything together and I can assure you I have paid close attention.   

 

You said that professionals and elite footballers should have the character to perform under difficult circumstances.  I don't disagree.  My point is you seemed to me to be conflating character and happiness.  Perhaps I misconstrued you.  

 

The two are not the same.  That's why I gave the example of Ben Stokes.  Clearly a man of immense character.  Also for a time unable to perform professionally because he was unhappy.  The amount he earns is irrelevant and his character is not in question.  That was really my point.  Not individual circumstances of one sportsman or another.  I just felt he was a good example to make the point. 

 

I am not seeking to be confrontational, quite frankly I wouldn't be surprised if he just doesn't fancy it and wants to bugger off to a league he knows.  But we don't know that and we don't know whether he just missed home a bit or felt crippling anxiety being away from home. 

 

You said in your previous post that you weren't equating Soumare's situation to Stokes' and now you proceed to do exactly that.it would seem.  I will say it again that I am talking specifically about homesickness.  Stokes' problems are entirely different