England - Always a bridesmaid, or overhyped?

[BlueSi13]

1 hour ago, shen said:

Some are still banging on about 1966 and that's over half a century ago.

You see, I hear this quite a bit, especially from non-English people.  But I have to ask, who exactly is "banging on about 1966"?  I've been following football for 30+ years and I've literally never heard an English person "bang" on about it.  

 

In fact, I'd be so bold to say that the only time it ever really comes up in conversation is when we are using it as a stick to beat ourselves with.  It's become more and more of a weight around our necks now.

[Fox92]

1 hour ago, shen said:

Some are still banging on about 1966 and that's over half a century ago.

Not true.

[BlueSi13]

23 hours ago, bovril said:

https://www.worldfootball.net/alltime_table/wm/

 

Not doing too badly. 

That tables interesting in that we are above Spain.

 

I think a lot of people forget that prior their 2008 revolution, Spain had literally won less than England.  Just a European Championship in 1964 on home soil.

 

So prior to 2008, despite England and Spain boasting the two best leagues in Europe, we were equally as bad as each other.  Since 2012 we've been almost identical once again. 

 

England just need that little bit extra to get the monkey off our backs.

 

I don't think we are million miles away personally.

[Guest Col city fan]

2 hours ago, shen said:

Some are still banging on about 1966 and that's over half a century ago.

Christ what a comparison!

England win the World Cup right at the end, against the Germans, only 20 years after the end of WW2, at a time when football was still very much a ‘working class game’ and this has surely been fuelled by the fact that we’ve failed to win a single tournament since!

Versus Emma Radacanu..

I’m wasting my time 

[Tommy Fresh]

1 hour ago, Fox92 said:

Not true.

1996 on the other hand 😂

[foxfanazer]

I know I'll get jumped on for this and will be accused of having a weird thing about Spurs etc but I think we could probably do with moving on from Kane. Everything seems to be centred around him and I think it's detrimental to the team and the playing style. Yes he'll still score some goals against the lesser sides but for so much of this tournament we were getting balls our wide only for their to be no striker in the opposition's area. Yes he can create for others but I feel every successful side needs a proper number 9.

 

Tin hat ready!

[oxtonfox]

This time at least we brought something home. Dave the cat. 

[Fox92]

57 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

1996 on the other hand 😂

Now that is true! And weird how that is seen as unlucky etc yet the current squad get lambasted despite getting further. Both the same end result, mind, we didn't win anything but the difference in reaction is to see.

[Fox92]

22 minutes ago, foxfanazer said:

I know I'll get jumped on for this and will be accused of having a weird thing about Spurs etc but I think we could probably do with moving on from Kane. Everything seems to be centred around him and I think it's detrimental to the team and the playing style. Yes he'll still score some goals against the lesser sides but for so much of this tournament we were getting balls our wide only for their to be no striker in the opposition's area. Yes he can create for others but I feel every successful side needs a proper number 9.

 

Tin hat ready!

Trouble is he is so good at creating chances too because of how deep he comes. He might be better playing off another striker.

[MattFox]

6 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Now that is true! And weird how that is seen as unlucky etc yet the current squad get lambasted despite getting further. Both the same end result, mind, we didn't win anything but the difference in reaction is to see.

Venables didn’t make a sub in 120 minutes of Football against Germany either.

 

Imagine if Southgate did that

[Guest Col city fan]

20 minutes ago, foxfanazer said:

I know I'll get jumped on for this and will be accused of having a weird thing about Spurs etc but I think we could probably do with moving on from Kane. Everything seems to be centred around him and I think it's detrimental to the team and the playing style. Yes he'll still score some goals against the lesser sides but for so much of this tournament we were getting balls our wide only for their to be no striker in the opposition's area. Yes he can create for others but I feel every successful side needs a proper number 9.

 

Tin hat ready!

You raise a very good point there and it again expands upon the media/authority led world view that we should all follow…

Harry Kane came into this tournament not on his best form. He’s a good striker, no doubt about that, but looked ‘leggy’ throughout the tournament I think?

My point is this… not once was there ANY discussion or consideration given to playing any of the other strikers in any of the games? Not once. Not in the media, not by the pundits, not by Southgate I suspect?

Kane is the captain… end of

Kane plays 90+ minutes… end of

Kane is Southgate’s voice in the dressing room and on the pitch… end of

Even you post this in anticipation of ‘comeback’.. (similar to when I post about Amartey?) and he’s not on the same universe as Kane, ability wise.

Kane is England’s best striker. But to thwart any discussion on whether anyone else gets a chance, even towards the end of games, is frankly bizarre.

But it’s socially constructed. I made the point after the game (and meant it).. what if Maguire had pushed Kane aside and stepped up to take that penalty.. and missed!

He’d be a pariah at the moment, whereas Kane is just accepted as ‘bad luck.

Socially driven reality mate. Read up on it. Marx called it the ‘superstructure’.. cultural norms being created by the ruling elite. It’s very real, even now.

[Finnaldo]

2 hours ago, Col city fan said:

Christ what a comparison!

England win the World Cup right at the end, against the Germans, only 20 years after the end of WW2, at a time when football was still very much a ‘working class game’ and this has surely been fuelled by the fact that we’ve failed to win a single tournament since!

Versus Emma Radacanu..

I’m wasting my time 

You’ve made a point we’re too political about sport and award everything based on nonsense political agenda and the reason the World Cup victory was so big was because… it was 20 years after World War Two? 
 

I mean we won the final against a country we split in half in that very war, does that not come into it? 
 

Disregarding that, you seem to be suggesting that people winning awards on the basis of being particularly good sportsmen is a new ideal, but that’s literally always been the case with endorsements, sponsorship etc., Shankly and Clough were known for years for including being ardent socialists… it all seems totally unrelated to the reality that we haven’t been that close really since we won it in 66. Were we more ‘woke’ in the 70s, 80s and 90s that made us underperform so massively? In fact this generation has got closer than any of them to lifting a major trophy despite the manager being an utter plonker. There was all the controversy regarding the knee at the Euros and we still got to the final, outperforming all the previous England Euros team before. 
 

It seems pretty egregious to let this Red Scare-esque ‘the Wokes are bringing us down from the inside’ political nonsense get in the way of the fact we’re not far having a decent team if we had a manager worthy of managing on the high end of the international stage. 

[Guest Col city fan]

1 hour ago, Finnaldo said:

You’ve made a point we’re too political about sport and award everything based on nonsense political agenda and the reason the World Cup victory was so big was because… it was 20 years after World War Two? 
 

I mean we won the final against a country we split in half in that very war, does that not come into it? 
 

Disregarding that, you seem to be suggesting that people winning awards on the basis of being particularly good sportsmen is a new ideal, but that’s literally always been the case with endorsements, sponsorship etc., Shankly and Clough were known for years for including being ardent socialists… it all seems totally unrelated to the reality that we haven’t been that close really since we won it in 66. Were we more ‘woke’ in the 70s, 80s and 90s that made us underperform so massively? In fact this generation has got closer than any of them to lifting a major trophy despite the manager being an utter plonker. There was all the controversy regarding the knee at the Euros and we still got to the final, outperforming all the previous England Euros team before. 
 

It seems pretty egregious to let this Red Scare-esque ‘the Wokes are bringing us down from the inside’ political nonsense get in the way of the fact we’re not far having a decent team if we had a manager worthy of managing on the high end of the international stage. 

So you’ve said that we’ve done better with this team than any since 1966, yet the manager is ‘an utter plonker’?

I’ll have some of what you’re having…

If you genuinely don’t believe that contemporary Britain is becoming a more woke society, then the discussion is over.

Regarding why we haven’t won a single thing since 1966, I’ve already said. It’s a multitude of things. The manager just being one of them. 

I find the whole failure of the England football team to win a single thing to be intriguing. Who knows if the buoyancy of the country in 66 pushed us over the line? It could have done. And it very nearly did in 1996. I know. I was there. And this was after the manager and the team had been publically humiliated in the tabloid press. Hence Gazza taking the piss with the dentists chair celebration. Far from the gentle beating that Kane and Southgate have had (if at all), pre the 1996 tournament, the whole squad was castigated.

It felt very different then. More fun

 

Edited 12 December 2022 by Col city fan

[Guest Col city fan]

I will still never know how Gazza missed that golden goal

Remember it like yesterday.

Enjoy

Pearce: life’s about memories. And I have more memories of those 5 weeks than any other.

Is anyone going to remember England’s performance at Qatar 22 with the same fervour?

Not on your life 

Edited 12 December 2022 by Col city fan

[shailen]

We overdo it in every tournament and never genuinely believe we're good enough. An inferiority complex if you ask me which results in being overly strategic to stop the opposition rather than playing to our strengths and going for it. Just makes games unnecessarily nervy and we lose out as a result. 

Edited 12 December 2022 by shailen
Forgot link

[foxfanazer]

1 hour ago, shailen said:

We overdo it in every tournament and never genuinely believe we're good enough. An inferiority complex if you ask me which results in being overly strategic to stop the opposition rather than playing to our strengths and going for it. Just makes games unnecessarily nervy and we lose out as a result. 

I think England fans would be far more forgiving of us flopping a tournament if it looked like we were having a real go. Although most seem content with the current efforts

[CosbehFox]

4 hours ago, Col city fan said:

I will still never know how Gazza missed that golden goal

Remember it like yesterday.

Enjoy

Pearce: life’s about memories. And I have more memories of those 5 weeks than any other.

Is anyone going to remember England’s performance at Qatar 22 with the same fervour?

Not on your life 

A quite obvious reason why the same scenes were not associated with that summer to these past couple of weeks. 
 

However the summers of 2018 and 2021 had scenes which were utterly chaotic and mad associated with this English national team. 

[shailen]

3 hours ago, foxfanazer said:

I think England fans would be far more forgiving of us flopping a tournament if it looked like we were having a real go. Although most seem content with the current efforts

Totally agree. This idea of Southgate saying he believes we can win the world cup but then playing a pragmatic and conservative style in the first half against France cost us. Although there is a need for balance, tell the players they're the best and let them go out with full licence to play so they actually believe they are. 

[Nalis]

6 hours ago, MattFox said:

Venables didn’t make a sub in 120 minutes of Football against Germany either.

 

Imagine if Southgate did that

Yeah but that was a proper team, better than the current wimps, werent afraid to kick lumps out of foreigneers, mouth full of jellied eels and a bus to Margate for sixpence those were the days.

[when_you're_smiling]

4 hours ago, Col city fan said:

I will still never know how Gazza missed that golden goal

Remember it like yesterday.

Enjoy

Pearce: life’s about memories. And I have more memories of those 5 weeks than any other.

Is anyone going to remember England’s performance at Qatar 22 with the same fervour?

Not on your life 

Probably the people who are around the same age now you were in 1996. We all glorify nostalgia.

[Guest Col city fan]

44 minutes ago, when_you're_smiling said:

Probably the people who are around the same age now you were in 1996. We all glorify nostalgia.

No, it was different. Watch the vid.
I guess the big contingent on here are a lot younger though. I’ve always got that impression 

Edited 12 December 2022 by Col city fan

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

No, it was different. 
I guess the big contingent on here are a lot younger though. I’ve always got that impression 

Might it have been different largely because it took place in the summer and, more importantly, in this country? Of course it's going to be remembered more fondly than the time England went off to the desert in the thick of winter to contest a tournament hosted by serial human rights abusers

[Tommy Fresh]

1 hour ago, CosbehFox said:

A quite obvious reason why the same scenes were not associated with that summer to these past couple of weeks. 
 

However the summers of 2018 and 2021 had scenes which were utterly chaotic and mad associated with this English national team. 

 

12 minutes ago, Guest said:

Might it have been different largely because it took place in the summer and, more importantly, in this country? Of course it's going to be remembered more fondly than the time England went off to the desert in the thick of winter to contest a tournament hosted by serial human rights abusers

Nope, it's because back then we were all less woke and there were far fewer snowflakes 'apparently' That's why we perform badly and don't enjoy major tournaments. 

[Guest Col city fan]

Just now, Tommy Fresh said:

 

Nope, it's because back then we were all less woke and there were far fewer snowflakes 'apparently' That's why we perform badly and don't enjoy major tournaments. 

Cmon Tom don’t have the hump old bean
👍

[when_you're_smiling]

26 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

No, it was different. Watch the vid.
I guess the big contingent on here are a lot younger though. I’ve always got that impression 

That’s the highlights though. It was grim against Switzerland and the first half v Scotland. A decent second half but if McAllister had scored the pen it could have been totally different. Obviously Holland was brilliant but The Spain game was also turgid and England got really lucky in that and was (I think) the first ever win on penalties. The luck then ran out against Germany. In short it was as up and down and as this one’s been.