Railway strikes?

[CosbehFox]

1 hour ago, kenny said:

That will be their declared profit after Chief Exec salaries etc.

 

The numbers sound large for these former public companies but as percentages are pretty rubbish.

 

https://www.sharesmagazine.co.uk/news/market/LSE20220719124150_4445301/network-rail-limited-annual-report-accounts-2022

 

The balance sheet shows the previously higher profits @CosbehFox highlighted.

 

I suspect the reduction the use of the railways will mean the profits will remain low in the future and will only get worse with the strikes.

 

I think we are due for some re-nationalisation to remind everyone how poor it was previously. So in my mind, lets just put those who like the idea of Britsh Rail again out of their misery.

The electric bill will significantly go up this year. 
 

All of Europe has a perfectly serviceable rail network and the operators are owned by the governments. I was really impressed with the Dutch service when going there with City. As I mentioned France’s SNCF operates at 1.8% profit after investments and improvements into its rail system 

[Leicester_Loyal]

5 hours ago, Mythyaar said:

All for workers rights to strike and earn a fair wage for a fair day's work. It's their prerogative and should be respected.

However, this strike is not all about pay. It's also about conditions and future working patterns. These include driverless trains. Siemens are building a lot of them at the moment to service the likes of Paris, Barcelona, Tokyo etc. There have been no safety incidents as far as I'm aware, as a result of the driverless trains.

 

Unfortunately, the bi product of this development/ progression is that fewer staff are required to man the trains. This is a red line for Mick Lynch. Furthermore, he probably feels emboldened to persist with the demand that all trains are manned with guards (for safety reasons) due to Merseyrail's decision to capitulate on the matter last year (or the year before).

 

For me, driverless trains are the future. Manning needs to be reduced - staff can be relocated to other areas within the business or there may be natural redundancies or a few forced ones. But regardless of if the franchise goes back into the public sector, which I believe it should, along with all the energy providers, we cannot stand in the way of progress and use the dubious excuse of safety for doing so.  

Guards are vital for crimes that occur on trains, especially sexual assaults. Although eventually yes we will progress and potentially need fewer staff.

 

Won't be the need for any forced redundancies in NR, over three thousand applied for Voluntary Redundancy so by shifting even a third of them on we'll probably be at the required staffing levels.

 

4 hours ago, Finnaldo said:

The consistent line I’ve seen from Lynch on this is that the infrastructure we have isn’t sufficient- we haven’t even electrified a lot of our lines- and can you really see the current lot pulling out the funding to make self driving trains a reality anytime soon?

He's totally right. In Leicestershire we still have infrastructure that relies on primary cells to power it, we're so far away from driverless trains and automation. It might be possible in places that have had significant investment but not here, we'd need billions to even get our track up to the level of the MML.

 

4 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Having been recently to Tokyo and also seen the UK rail system I would heartily agree with Lynch here that the infrastructure isn't anywhere near ready for driverless trains. The UK hasn't even got a true high-speed rail (as in 155mph+) line yet and there's a laundry list of OECD nations that have loads, let alone automating the tech.

Japanese HSR has always facinated me, would love to visit one day.

 

Even going on the Eurostar makes our trains seem pathetic and outdated.

[Jaspa]

National Express site having "technical issues" too, might have to bolt it down to a bus station do it in person. Travel tomorrow.

 

Ballache

[kenny]

2 hours ago, CosbehFox said:

The electric bill will significantly go up this year. 
 

All of Europe has a perfectly serviceable rail network and the operators are owned by the governments. I was really impressed with the Dutch service when going there with City. As I mentioned France’s SNCF operates at 1.8% profit after investments and improvements into its rail system 

I've been on Belgian trains, they were horrible, busy and much worse than ours.

 

Spanish trains i have used are brilliant, mostly because no one appears to use them. It's like having your own giant limo.

 

We tried to use trains in Cherbourg and they only get 4 a day to Paris.

 

European trains are quite different to ours in my experience. Not as good as you would think and certainly not as busy as they are here, though recently the trains I've used have been delightful. Lots of spare seats and much cheaper than before.

 

 

[Leicester_Loyal]

1 hour ago, kenny said:

I've been on Belgian trains, they were horrible, busy and much worse than ours.

 

Spanish trains i have used are brilliant, mostly because no one appears to use them. It's like having your own giant limo.

 

We tried to use trains in Cherbourg and they only get 4 a day to Paris.

 

European trains are quite different to ours in my experience. Not as good as you would think and certainly not as busy as they are here, though recently the trains I've used have been delightful. Lots of spare seats and much cheaper than before.

 

 

I did the Belgium ones when we played Brugge, the carriages were like the ones we used on the Great Central, ancient 

[leicsmac]

7 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

 

Japanese HSR has always facinated me, would love to visit one day.

 

Even going on the Eurostar makes our trains seem pathetic and outdated.

It's not just the HSR either, it's the network within all the major cities - both overground and underground - too.

 

So far ahead.

 

5 hours ago, kenny said:

I've been on Belgian trains, they were horrible, busy and much worse than ours.

 

Spanish trains i have used are brilliant, mostly because no one appears to use them. It's like having your own giant limo.

 

We tried to use trains in Cherbourg and they only get 4 a day to Paris.

 

European trains are quite different to ours in my experience. Not as good as you would think and certainly not as busy as they are here, though recently the trains I've used have been delightful. Lots of spare seats and much cheaper than before.

 

 

Come on over to the Far East and you'll see the standard the UK should really aspire to in terms of such things.

[yorkie1999]

6 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

It's not just the HSR either, it's the network within all the major cities - both overground and underground - too.

 

So far ahead.

 

Come on over to the Far East and you'll see the standard the UK should really aspire to in terms of such things.

Super efficient, always on time, extremely fast, perfectly clean, but I bet they’d give it all up for a bit of this. Five hours of heaven.

[leicsmac]

2 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

Super efficient, always on time, extremely fast, perfectly clean, but I bet they’d give it all up for a bit of this. Five hours of heaven.

It's not too bad...

 

[Alfie.meadsy]

Looks like the train strike aren’t ending any time soon…

[Alfie.meadsy]

On 30/12/2022 at 11:20, Raj said:

This is the scary thing that people actually believe this.

This Government  can literally do what they want, theyve made this country into a third world mess yet when workers want better conditions, some folk believe they should just put up, shut up or get a new job.

Its unbelievable  but scary too

Still can’t believe the government are trying to make them out like the bad guys. Because it ain’t just about money it is about work conditions as well. And the gov are trying to turn the general public against unions like RMT.

[fox_up_north]

It's actually the conditions thing that concerns me more than the pay (though obviously everyone should get fair pay).

 

We don't have the infrastructure to have driverless trains or fewer staff. I also regularly get trains into Manchester and, on football days or Saturday nights, am thankful that there are guards and drivers. There's been a number of times where we've pulled up to a station, where police have been waiting to grab someone off the train because a guard has contacted them. 

 

Would the elderly, women and vulnerable people take trains if they were fully automated with nobody on them? 

[Alfie.meadsy]

7 minutes ago, fox_up_north said:

It's actually the conditions thing that concerns me more than the pay (though obviously everyone should get fair pay).

 

We don't have the infrastructure to have driverless trains or fewer staff. I also regularly get trains into Manchester and, on football days or Saturday nights, am thankful that there are guards and drivers. There's been a number of times where we've pulled up to a station, where police have been waiting to grab someone off the train because a guard has contacted them. 

 

Would the elderly, women and vulnerable people take trains if they were fully automated with nobody on them? 

In the new pay offer they where going to implement more driver only operation! Too dangerous and will also mean more job losses…

[kenny]

1 hour ago, Alfie.meadsy said:

In the new pay offer they where going to implement more driver only operation! Too dangerous and will also mean more job losses…

Depending on which train you get, they are often driver only anyway. You rarely see a guard or inspector on the train.

[Foxdiamond]

2 hours ago, fox_up_north said:

It's actually the conditions thing that concerns me more than the pay (though obviously everyone should get fair pay).

 

We don't have the infrastructure to have driverless trains or fewer staff. I also regularly get trains into Manchester and, on football days or Saturday nights, am thankful that there are guards and drivers. There's been a number of times where we've pulled up to a station, where police have been waiting to grab someone off the train because a guard has contacted them. 

 

Would the elderly, women and vulnerable people take trains if they were fully automated with nobody on them? 

Totally agree. The railways should be thought of as public service rather than just a business for profit for shareholders. We need guards on trains, staff on platforms and ticket offices. The government is shirking the issues hoping the public turn on the workers.

[lcfc278]

2 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

Totally agree. The railways should be thought of as public service rather than just a business for profit for shareholders. We need guards on trains, staff on platforms and ticket offices. The government is shirking the issues hoping the public turn on the workers.

Agreed. I'm not completely sure of the in's and out's of how the UK rail system works but surely with the ridiculous cost of ticket fares and season tickets, someone must be making an obscene amount of profit that could/should be invested back into improving working conditions and safeguarding jobs.

[rachhere]

Also people who require rail assistance need there to be guards/staff in place to make sure they are safely able to get on and off the train. As mentioned, I definitely feel happier if I am travelling late at night on my own if I know there’s a guard on the train. 

[kenny]

2 hours ago, lcfc278 said:

Agreed. I'm not completely sure of the in's and out's of how the UK rail system works but surely with the ridiculous cost of ticket fares and season tickets, someone must be making an obscene amount of profit that could/should be invested back into improving working conditions and safeguarding jobs.

2/3 of the cost is covered by the UK taxpayer, 1/3 by ticket sales.

[BenTheFox]

On 30/12/2022 at 11:20, Raj said:

This is the scary thing that people actually believe this.

This Government  can literally do what they want, theyve made this country into a third world mess yet when workers want better conditions, some folk believe they should just put up, shut up or get a new job.

Its unbelievable  but scary too

This attitude really upsets me. It's completely ludicrous. Do these people not realise that many low paid jobs are essential and not see the enormous issue if even more people were to leave these positions?

[rachhere]

Sunak to invite the unions to ‘grown up talks’ apparently. How incredibly patronising. I hope these talks actually involve listening. 

[Bellend Sebastian]

50 minutes ago, BenTheFox said:

This attitude really upsets me. It's completely ludicrous. Do these people not realise that many low paid jobs are essential and not see the enormous issue if even more people were to leave these positions?

A lot of folk refuse to entertain the thought that anyone might do a job for any reason other than what it pays

[leicsmac]

9 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

A lot of folk refuse to entertain the thought that anyone might do a job for any reason other than what it pays

...or the thought that a job might benefit other people more than oneself.

[CosbehFox]

22 hours ago, rachhere said:

Also people who require rail assistance need there to be guards/staff in place to make sure they are safely able to get on and off the train. As mentioned, I definitely feel happier if I am travelling late at night on my own if I know there’s a guard on the train. 

As you well know the cross city line in Birmingham requires a guard or a manned ticket office to get wheelchairs off the trains. Someone has to be here to operate the ‘ramp’ 

[Foxdiamond]

It seems the rail bosses for the sake of profit don't want any job that requires any sort of personal service. If we could guarantee much cheaper tickets with a safe reliable "service" then there might be some benefit but it won't. No or very few staff on concourses, platforms or trains. What a prospect.

[Fox92]

1 hour ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

A lot of folk refuse to entertain the thought that anyone might do a job for any reason other than what it pays

I've been seeing this a lot at my place over the past couple of months. Won't go into to details but I've been asking for something specific and the reaction of other employees is so strange when it's a benefit for all of us.

 

People say there's no loyalty but it works both ways. Companies should treat staff much better.

[Parafox]

7 hours ago, rachhere said:

Sunak to invite the unions to ‘grown up talks’ apparently. How incredibly patronising. I hope these talks actually involve listening. 

When Sunak is the only alternative to Truss...