Rudkin

[Stadt]

2 minutes ago, Bordersfox said:

Both things can be true.  We are badly run and PSR is a crock of shite.

 

Whilst I totally agree about us needing to adhere to a much better overall model and strategy as a club we have still been shafted by PSR.  

 

Also, realistically none of those clubs has been pushing for top six.  The FA Cup is achievable as a one off.  But Palace have absolutely no ambition to break into the top 6, nor do the others realistically being content to be feeder clubs.  Villa and Newcastle do have those ambitions and I think overall their transfer strategy has been fairly sound.  Yet they are both prevented from accelerating progress by PSR.

 

Meanwhile Manure have been run like a clown show for years yet spend with near impunity because of commercial revenues tied to historical successes and profile.

 

All that said Roger is a pillock. 

Our errors are self-inflicted, we were flying too closely to the sun with a > 100% wages to turnover spend before the PSR regulations changed. We decided to 'go for it' by buying Daka, Soumare and Vestergaard (none of which were meant to by first choice!) without making any sales, that was our second largest net spend only eclipsed by... wait for it... last summer.

 

I hate the regulations but they're the last thing we can blame.

[Bordersfox]

2 minutes ago, Stadt said:

Our errors are self-inflicted, we were flying too closely to the sun with a > 100% wages to turnover spend before the PSR regulations changed. We decided to 'go for it' by buying Daka, Soumare and Vestergaard (none of which were meant to by first choice!) without making any sales, that was our second largest net spend only eclipsed by... wait for it... last summer.

 

I hate the regulations but they're the last thing we can blame.

Yep don't disagree with any of that.

 

I suppose I was just pointing out that PSR can stifle ambition and that actually the clubs listed aren't really that ambitious beyond staying in the league, the odd cup run and getting into the Europa league now and then.  

 

You're right though, it's not fair to say we were shafted by PSR, although any points deduction would be something of a rogering.

 

I just fundamentally disagree with the league interfering with what clubs do financially and I am very suspicious about actual motivations.  

[iancognito]

26 minutes ago, Bordersfox said:

Both things can be true.  We are badly run and PSR is a crock of shite.

 

Whilst I totally agree about us needing to adhere to a much better overall model and strategy as a club we have still been shafted by PSR.  

 

Also, realistically none of those clubs has been pushing for top six.  The FA Cup is achievable as a one off.  But Palace have absolutely no ambition to break into the top 6, nor do the others realistically being content to be feeder clubs.  Villa and Newcastle do have those ambitions and I think overall their transfer strategy has been fairly sound.  Yet they are both prevented from accelerating progress by PSR.

 

Meanwhile Manure have been run like a clown show for years yet spend with near impunity because of commercial revenues tied to historical successes and profile.

 

All that said Roger is a pillock. 

100%, it's a sh!tshow. Should have let the Super League 6 sail off into the sunset IMO. But my point with those other clubs has been sustainability. It was great to be in the top 4 with Rodgers but our model of sell one big name a year kept us sustainable and challenging. Part of the reason why the promoted clubs now go straight back down has been those clubs being stable and well-run. If we kept our wages under control we didn't need UCL to stay in the black. And no-one was moaning about only being 8th. In reality we'd have been happy in mid table but the hierarchy wanted more and fast.

[nnfox]

Clubs have overspent in the past and performed badly, it's just that when we did it, we got whacked with the PSR baseball bat.

 

PSR clearly gives an advantage to the big 6 clubs.  It's well documented that player wages are a fairly accurate predictor of success, certainly in the medium to long term.

 

Clubs like Brighton, Bournemouth, Wolves, Brentford, Palace, Burnley, Southampton, Sheff Utd, Forest, Fulham, Villa, us and so on can never attain sustained success because they and we have to massively gamble on player wages.  When the wage bill is in excess of 90% of revenue, there's not a lot of wriggle room for mistakes.  Yes, they can punch above their weight for a season or two, but missing out on Champions League football can be devastating.  Doing it twice in two seasons (Hi Brendan) can be fatal.

 

Palace are a good example of a well run club with limited ambition.  They are on a decade plus run in the Premier League and know their place... Mid table mediocrity and the hope of getting two or three easy cup games and riding their luck in a couple more.

 

Meanwhile, the likes of Man U, Man C, Arsenal et al can pay the big wages for the top players.  Their wage bill hovers around the 50% of revenue mark due to huge global revenues.  If it all goes wrong for a few years, no problem: reinvest in the squad and go again.  For anyone else, because of PSR it's a disaster - being forced to sell promising academy products whilst honouring big contracts for under performing established pros.  The whole thing then just serves to weaken the underdog and strengthen the big boys.  They are absolutely locked in to a status quo that serves them and them alone.

 

A fixed number salary cap, perhaps around £120m, which is still an awful lot of money, is the only thing I can think of that can possibly make the game more exciting in the Premier League but I cannot see that ever happening.

[Bordersfox]

2 minutes ago, nnfox said:

Clubs have overspent in the past and performed badly, it's just that when we did it, we got whacked with the PSR baseball bat.

 

PSR clearly gives an advantage to the big 6 clubs.  It's well documented that player wages are a fairly accurate predictor of success, certainly in the medium to long term.

 

Clubs like Brighton, Bournemouth, Wolves, Brentford, Palace, Burnley, Southampton, Sheff Utd, Forest, Fulham, Villa, us and so on can never attain sustained success because they and we have to massively gamble on player wages.  When the wage bill is in excess of 90% of revenue, there's not a lot of wriggle room for mistakes.  Yes, they can punch above their weight for a season or two, but missing out on Champions League football can be devastating.  Doing it twice in two seasons (Hi Brendan) can be fatal.

 

Palace are a good example of a well run club with limited ambition.  They are on a decade plus run in the Premier League and know their place... Mid table mediocrity and the hope of getting two or three easy cup games and riding their luck in a couple more.

 

Meanwhile, the likes of Man U, Man C, Arsenal et al can pay the big wages for the top players.  Their wage bill hovers around the 50% of revenue mark due to huge global revenues.  If it all goes wrong for a few years, no problem: reinvest in the squad and go again.  For anyone else, because of PSR it's a disaster - being forced to sell promising academy products whilst honouring big contracts for under performing established pros.  The whole thing then just serves to weaken the underdog and strengthen the big boys.  They are absolutely locked in to a status quo that serves them and them alone.

 

A fixed number salary cap, perhaps around £120m, which is still an awful lot of money, is the only thing I can think of that can possibly make the game more exciting in the Premier League but I cannot see that ever happening.

This is exacerbated by the longevity value in the big club brands.  It's just not like a normal business, how many years or decades will Manchester United have to be sh1t before they lose global appeal? 

 

If that was a normal business being run so incompetently year after year they'd be in serious difficulty by now.  

 

Trying to pretend football is somehow a normal business and then seeking to impose some artificial sustainability rules on it is just ridiculous.  As you say it creates grotesque outcomes where homegrown talent, like KDH who reportedly didn't want to leave, being flogged off to comply with PSR.  

 

Problem with caps is that you'd have to get every European major league to agree to them or players will just disappear to leagues that don't have them.

[fox_favourite]

The guy is definitely on performance enhancing drugs. Working on a bank holiday as well!! 

 

Unless it's not him and Glover is acting like he knows what he's doing. 

[Winstonthedog]

Dearest Jon.... its been on the news that Newcastle are actively looking for a new forward .... why don't you send them Daka's CV .... 

[Eskay]

Not sure we will get (m)any more exits but he needs to keep going. 

 

One of Daka, Wout, VK or BDCR would suite me just fine for this window.  

 

I'm more excited and focussed on outgoings than I am of links to incomings.....what a time to be alive ! 

[CrazyKopCorner]

3 minutes ago, Eskay said:

Not sure we will get (m)any more exits but he needs to keep going. 

 

One of Daka, Wout, VK or BDCR would suite me just fine for this window.  

 

I'm more excited and focussed on outgoings than I am of links to incomings.....what a time to be alive ! 

Yes anyone of them and it would be a tremendous window 

[Cropwellfox]

£20m which will be mostly PSR profit in a week not too shabby for positions where we do have reasonable cover already. If we are able to spend any of it just please let’s not piss it up the wall like last summer’s window 

[Lambert09]

Keep this up and you’ll go from a mega c you next Tuesday, to a huge c you next Tuesday 

[Paninistickers]

This isn't the work of Rudkin. He hasn't thus far negotiated deals like these.

 

I think it's Jim.  

[nnfox]

1 hour ago, Bordersfox said:

This is exacerbated by the longevity value in the big club brands.  It's just not like a normal business, how many years or decades will Manchester United have to be sh1t before they lose global appeal? 

 

If that was a normal business being run so incompetently year after year they'd be in serious difficulty by now.  

 

Trying to pretend football is somehow a normal business and then seeking to impose some artificial sustainability rules on it is just ridiculous.  As you say it creates grotesque outcomes where homegrown talent, like KDH who reportedly didn't want to leave, being flogged off to comply with PSR.  

 

Problem with caps is that you'd have to get every European major league to agree to them or players will just disappear to leagues that don't have them.

And there was a cut off point.  There was a time not that long ago when Chelsea were bang average and Man City were worse.  They were able to spend, spend, spend with reckless abandon and get their place at the top table and now they sit there smugly, knowing nobody else can replicate their method.

[DezFox]

36 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

This isn't the work of Rudkin. He hasn't thus far negotiated deals like these.

 

I think it's Jim.  

Jim? 

[cropstonfox]

2 hours ago, Bordersfox said:

Yep don't disagree with any of that.

 

I suppose I was just pointing out that PSR can stifle ambition and that actually the clubs listed aren't really that ambitious beyond staying in the league, the odd cup run and getting into the Europa league now and then.  

 

You're right though, it's not fair to say we were shafted by PSR, although any points deduction would be something of a rogering.

 

I just fundamentally disagree with the league interfering with what clubs do financially and I am very suspicious about actual motivations.  

This is now infringing on the earnings of the players . Surely the PFA,will be looking at this and potentially the monopolies commission?Another Bosman type action looming?

[Bordersfox]

3 minutes ago, cropstonfox said:

This is now infringing on the earnings of the players . Surely the PFA,will be looking at this and potentially the monopolies commission?Another Bosman type action looming?

Yeah I've thought similar but don't really know enough about the legalities of the situation 

[iancognito]

46 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

Keep this up and you’ll go from a mega c you next Tuesday, to a huge c you next Tuesday 

Let's not go OTT on any praise. His decisions and advice have led us here in the first place.

[cropstonfox]

2 minutes ago, Bordersfox said:

Yeah I've thought similar but don't really know enough about the legalities of the situation 

Hopefully the PFA will be testing the legalities as the earnings of many are being affected, this even cascades down the divisions.

[Bordersfox]

10 minutes ago, nnfox said:

And there was a cut off point.  There was a time not that long ago when Chelsea were bang average and Man City were worse.  They were able to spend, spend, spend with reckless abandon and get their place at the top table and now they sit there smugly, knowing nobody else can replicate their method.

Absolutely.  Entirely arbitrary.  Now you see City shirts all over the place, commercial revenue they accumulated by 'cheating' (according to current rules). 

[Guest RYM]

49 minutes ago, iancognito said:

Let's not go OTT on any praise. His decisions and advice have led us here in the first place.

Totally correct.

 

1000’s of our fans celebrated at a promotion party in the city centre completely ignoring the fact that promotion would not have been needed if it wasn’t for the masterclass in mismanagement. The recency effect is often blinding.

Edited 25 August 2025 by RYM

[filbertway]

57 minutes ago, cropstonfox said:

This is now infringing on the earnings of the players . Surely the PFA,will be looking at this and potentially the monopolies commission?Another Bosman type action looming?

Let's hope not, we need wages to drop, not be making out the players are victims in a desperate attempt to allow our club to plunge us further in to debt.

Edited 25 August 2025 by filbertway

[cropstonfox]

7 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Let's hope not, we need wages to drop, not be making out the players are victims in a desperate attempt to allow our club to plunge us further in to debt.

Market forces should dictate players wages, not financial controlling rules.

Skill and excellence deserves reward not restrictions.

[Corky]

3 hours ago, Stadt said:

Our errors are self-inflicted, we were flying too closely to the sun with a > 100% wages to turnover spend before the PSR regulations changed. We decided to 'go for it' by buying Daka, Soumare and Vestergaard (none of which were meant to by first choice!) without making any sales, that was our second largest net spend only eclipsed by... wait for it... last summer.

 

I hate the regulations but they're the last thing we can blame.

We have currently been deducted no points for any breaches. We were relegated first time around because we refused to sack a manager until far too late (either through delusion or unable to get out of a contract we offered) and second time because our large net spend brought in mediocre players who were not up to the required level whilst appointing managers again on contracts we struggled to get ourselves out of.

 

We continued to employ the same DOF and CEO throughout. Even if there were no regulations we have been shockingly wasteful with money.

[Wakeyfox]

2 hours ago, nnfox said:

Clubs have overspent in the past and performed badly, it's just that when we did it, we got whacked with the PSR baseball bat.

 

PSR clearly gives an advantage to the big 6 clubs.  It's well documented that player wages are a fairly accurate predictor of success, certainly in the medium to long term.

 

Clubs like Brighton, Bournemouth, Wolves, Brentford, Palace, Burnley, Southampton, Sheff Utd, Forest, Fulham, Villa, us and so on can never attain sustained success because they and we have to massively gamble on player wages.  When the wage bill is in excess of 90% of revenue, there's not a lot of wriggle room for mistakes.  Yes, they can punch above their weight for a season or two, but missing out on Champions League football can be devastating.  Doing it twice in two seasons (Hi Brendan) can be fatal.

 

Palace are a good example of a well run club with limited ambition.  They are on a decade plus run in the Premier League and know their place... Mid table mediocrity and the hope of getting two or three easy cup games and riding their luck in a couple more.

 

Meanwhile, the likes of Man U, Man C, Arsenal et al can pay the big wages for the top players.  Their wage bill hovers around the 50% of revenue mark due to huge global revenues.  If it all goes wrong for a few years, no problem: reinvest in the squad and go again.  For anyone else, because of PSR it's a disaster - being forced to sell promising academy products whilst honouring big contracts for under performing established pros.  The whole thing then just serves to weaken the underdog and strengthen the big boys.  They are absolutely locked in to a status quo that serves them and them alone.

 

A fixed number salary cap, perhaps around £120m, which is still an awful lot of money, is the only thing I can think of that can possibly make the game more exciting in the Premier League but I cannot see that ever happening.

Perfect summary.

 

My lad keeps asking about the PSR issues and I massively overcomplicate it usually.

Just showed him this and he got it.

[Tommy G]

1 hour ago, DezFox said:

Jim? 

Jim from the ticket office