Jobsworth Behaviour

[Facecloth]

4 minutes ago, hejammy said:

And what if it was a delivery they were waiting for with heavy items? 

 

It's the same as a street with a row of empty driveways, just because there are no cars on driveway is it ok to park closest to the shop you want to go to? 

You think the delivery lorry is using the staffs designated parking spaces? What if they were delivering when the staff had a car parked there?

[hejammy]

21 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

You think the delivery lorry is using the staffs designated parking spaces? What if they were delivering when the staff had a car parked there?

Well small charity shops don't tend to have lorry loads, vans yes and also maybe personal vehicles to get stuff. I think you're ignoring the bigger picture. No excuse, you cannot assume someone doesn't need their parking space designated to them. Simply he was in the wrong and to call someone a bellend because they may have needed that spot is a harsh. 

 

Would you like it if someone used your driveway? I don't think so. 

[Facecloth]

7 minutes ago, hejammy said:

Well small charity shops don't tend to have lorry loads, vans yes and also maybe personal vehicles to get stuff. I think you're ignoring the bigger picture. No excuse, you cannot assume someone doesn't need their parking space designated to them. Simply he was in the wrong and to call someone a bellend because they may have needed that spot is a harsh. 

 

Would you like it if someone used your driveway? I don't think so. 

Bit different to using someone's driveway. My house is never open to the public and therefore doesn't have opening a closing hours, so nobody should be using my driveway, ever. But after hours most people wouldn't pay too much attention if its a shop or supermarket car park.

 

@Parafox didn't elaborate, he said the guy just came and said it was his space. Now if he'd said I've got a delivery coming can you move, fair enough, but if he's just pointing out it his spot but isn't using it then yeah he's being a jobsworth.

[Parafox]

4 hours ago, hejammy said:

Then I'm sorry but I feel its kinda justified. Just because the shop was closed doesn't mean they didn't need the parking spot for a delivery or a guest or just staff training. You parked there for your own convenience but didn't accept that it was potentially inconvenient for them. This isn't a jobsworth behaviour in my opinion. 

It was 6:30 pm no deliveries or donations happen after 4 pm.

 

You'd need to know the car park to get the jist.

 

 

That's the car park when the shop is open. 13 spaces. 

 

There is no staff training. It's a charity shop ffs. When it's empty it's EMPTY. Do you imagine there's going to suddenly be an influx of RSPCA/MIND/Air Ambulance staff and volunteers on a Saturday evening?

 

Stop being a jobsworth

[hejammy]

4 hours ago, Parafox said:

It was 6:30 pm no deliveries or donations happen after 4 pm.

 

You'd need to know the car park to get the jist.

 

 

That's the car park when the shop is open. 13 spaces. 

 

There is no staff training. It's a charity shop ffs. When it's empty it's EMPTY. Do you imagine there's going to suddenly be an influx of RSPCA/MIND/Air Ambulance staff and volunteers on a Saturday evening?

 

Stop being a jobsworth

With such a small car park, still makes me wonder why you didn't just park in your own designated bay? Walking for another 20 seconds wouldn't have been the end of the world and it would have stopped you having to potentially hear it from the "belend" jobsworth. Just saying. They obviously had at least 1 member of staff there. Maybe they were having an in house leaving do.... Who knows. 

Edited 23 April 2023 by hejammy

[ozleicester]

Mods, please rename this topic... "Jobsworth thread"

[grobyfox1990]

Ground handling staff at the gate at airports who hammer people for ‘oversized baggage.’ I get why airline staff would do it because of commission but surely 3rd party ground staff don’t personally benefit?!? Proper bell bed behaviour and I hope these types get hammered elsewhere in life. Someone today was hitting loads of passengers, one very admirable bloke who they targeted walked straight out of the gate and didn’t get the flight 

[Bordersfox]

On 24/04/2023 at 02:29, ozleicester said:

Mods, please rename this topic... "Jobsworth thread"

We all knew eventually this thread would descend into a squabble over what does and what does not constitute jobsworth behaviour.  

 

It is Foxes Talk after all.  

[Big Dave]

16 hours ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Ground handling staff at the gate at airports who hammer people for ‘oversized baggage.’ I get why airline staff would do it because of commission but surely 3rd party ground staff don’t personally benefit?!? Proper bell bed behaviour and I hope these types get hammered elsewhere in life. Someone today was hitting loads of passengers, one very admirable bloke who they targeted walked straight out of the gate and didn’t get the flight 

If it is to do with weight, it is a H&S issue, and I believe the extra fees are in part to discourage people from overpacking.  Likewise, oversize bags often need more than 1 person to safely move it (safer for themselves and for damage to the item), so the fee is part of the additional staffing requirement.

[foxile5]

On 22/04/2023 at 19:36, stretch1965 said:

Chap on the door at the Robbie peel today, had kept 4 chaps waiting 10 minutes when we turned up claiming  the pub was full and had a shit eating grin while telling us so. Looking through the window the was plenty of space. We advised the others to drink elsewhere, shame cos I like the pub.

They do this every week.

 

Every time you go you're made to wait for a few minutes before they'll grant you access. I'd understand if it were rammed but typically I go after the game when it's quiet. It's just a weird form of control.

 

I have to say I've not experienced the smugness. Chap on the door usually seems very earnest and concerned about an overcrowding problem which makes it more baffling.

[grobyfox1990]

3 hours ago, Big Dave said:

If it is to do with weight, it is a H&S issue, and I believe the extra fees are in part to discourage people from overpacking.  Likewise, oversize bags often need more than 1 person to safely move it (safer for themselves and for damage to the item), so the fee is part of the additional staffing requirement.

Wasn't weight, it was size. He opened the bag and barely had anything in there, said he'll carry his things in a plastic bag and will throw the bag away. Over zealous staff refused, so he eventually just walked off. Admire him for that. The overzealous staff will get hammered by some obscure profit generating rule which is rife in UK life (tax, insurance, mobile phone, banking, railway, you name it....) and they richly deserve it too

[Jon the Hat]

This thread should be called the "I don't understand other people's jobs and get annoyed when this becomes clear to me making me feel a bit stupid" thread.

[grobyfox1990]

18 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

This thread should be called the "I don't understand other people's jobs and get annoyed when this becomes clear to me making me feel a bit stupid" thread.

If you think like that, the tech revolution will rightly take your job. Every job has a large element of judgment, empathy, politicisation and flexible decision-making to it. If you can’t apply that and rigidly stick to a rule book, you’re a waste of an FTE, a machine will swallow the rule book and save a whole load of budget 

[leicsmac]

Just now, grobyfox1990 said:

If you think like that, the tech revolution will rightly take your job. Every job has a large element of judgment, empathy, politicisation and flexible decision-making to it. If you can’t apply that and rigidly stick to a rule book, you’re a waste of an FTE, a machine will swallow the rule book and save a whole load of budget 

Apropos of nothing, chat about how tech will turn the current job market utterly upside down might make for an interesting thread - or an addition to an existing one.

[Jon the Hat]

1 minute ago, grobyfox1990 said:

If you think like that, the tech revolution will rightly take your job. Every job has a large element of judgment, empathy, politicisation and flexible decision-making to it. If you can’t apply that and rigidly stick to a rule book, you’re a waste of an FTE, a machine will swallow the rule book and save a whole load of budget 

Every job really doesn't have those things, but regardless clearly lots of people fail to understand why others act as they do in their job, even when that may be perfectly reasonable and justifiable.

[grobyfox1990]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

Apropos of nothing, chat about how tech will turn the current job market utterly upside down might make for an interesting thread - or an addition to an existing one.

Hahahah I would take offence at you calling my point irrelevant but as it’s done with such panache I’ll let you off. But I do think I have a point. Jobsworths will get swallowed up by tech because they have no dynamism. That’s why you often see useless lawyers and accountants having to get in house jobs, haven’t got a dynamic bone in their body, all they can do is follow ‘procedure’ 

[grobyfox1990]

1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:

Every job really doesn't have those things, but regardless clearly lots of people fail to understand why others act as they do in their job, even when that may be perfectly reasonable and justifiable.

That machine is coming for you mr hat

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Hahahah I would take offence at you calling my point irrelevant but as it’s done with such panache I’ll let you off. But I do think I have a point. Jobsworths will get swallowed up by tech because they have no dynamism. That’s why you often see useless lawyers and accountants having to get in house jobs, haven’t got a dynamic bone in their body, all they can do is follow ‘procedure’ 

Ha, no offence meant, and I hope none taken!

 

I was serious about the topic and it's linked into the salient point you made - tech is going to really cause massive changes in the professional job market as computers further mature.

[Jon the Hat]

9 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

That machine is coming for you mr hat

It'll be way too late to take my role, but I welcome automation in all useful forms in finance and have done for 25 years.

[Jon the Hat]

16 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Hahahah I would take offence at you calling my point irrelevant but as it’s done with such panache I’ll let you off. But I do think I have a point. Jobsworths will get swallowed up by tech because they have no dynamism. That’s why you often see useless lawyers and accountants having to get in house jobs, haven’t got a dynamic bone in their body, all they can do is follow ‘procedure’ 

I suspect you completely misunderstand what those Lawyers and accountants roles are for, and why that is important.  Then again I have spent my career stopping people in all kinds of roles ****ing up their careers and companies by not following policy and procedure, thus keeping those companies running smoothly and people in jobs and out of jail

 

That is not to argue your point that AI etc. is and will continue to change those jobs a great deal.  Compliance is an ever moving target though, so don't expect to see finance and legal departments disappearing anytime soon.

Edited 27 April 2023 by Jon the Hat

[grobyfox1990]

41 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I suspect you completely misunderstand what those Lawyers and accountants roles are for, and why that is important.  Then again I have spent my career stopping people in all kinds of roles ****ing up their careers and companies by not following policy and procedure, thus keeping those companies running smoothly and people in jobs and out of jail

 

That is not to argue your point that AI etc. is and will continue to change those jobs a great deal.  Compliance is an ever moving target though, so don't expect to see finance and legal departments disappearing anytime soon.

I’m a qualified accountant and have worked in 5 different jurisdictions, I know what a finance team member jockey does. Luckily I’ve always been in practice apart a year on secondment from my old firm to a finance team of a multinational corporate. The worst thing ever, surrounded by drones who blindly follow the rule book and whose minds explode when change is mentioned. You might have some anecdotes of saving peoples careers but if we’re being presumptuous I bet that’s vastly outweighed by the mass of work and revenue you’ve blocked, and don’t even know about, because it doesn’t fit the rigidity. 
Compliance is already being automated out. I don’t need an FTE doing a SAR check and completing the audit trail for when the SEC investigate me, a robot can. Plus they’re far more fun than compliance bods and won’t hammer my budget 

[Jon the Hat]

10 hours ago, grobyfox1990 said:

I’m a qualified accountant and have worked in 5 different jurisdictions, I know what a finance team member jockey does. Luckily I’ve always been in practice apart a year on secondment from my old firm to a finance team of a multinational corporate. The worst thing ever, surrounded by drones who blindly follow the rule book and whose minds explode when change is mentioned. You might have some anecdotes of saving peoples careers but if we’re being presumptuous I bet that’s vastly outweighed by the mass of work and revenue you’ve blocked, and don’t even know about, because it doesn’t fit the rigidity. 
Compliance is already being automated out. I don’t need an FTE doing a SAR check and completing the audit trail for when the SEC investigate me, a robot can. Plus they’re far more fun than compliance bods and won’t hammer my budget 

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying there aren't drones (mind you there are plenty in practise as well despite progress in audit automation), but you should well understand the importance of and reliance on a good system of controls, whether that is automated or not. 

 

And yes of course I have been responsible for my companies not taking on poor business - that is the job.  Low margin, high risk contracts, suspect customer relationships, jurisdictions where corruption is rife, poor safety for our employees - there are myriad good reasons not to take on a contract or customer or market - and as a director of a number of companies with hundreds of millions of turnover I can tell you that legal and finance review is more important to me and the company than keeping a sales guy happy.

Edited 28 April 2023 by Jon the Hat

[Nalis]

16 hours ago, grobyfox1990 said:

I’m a qualified accountant and have worked in 5 different jurisdictions, I know what a finance team member jockey does. Luckily I’ve always been in practice apart a year on secondment from my old firm to a finance team of a multinational corporate. The worst thing ever, surrounded by drones who blindly follow the rule book and whose minds explode when change is mentioned. You might have some anecdotes of saving peoples careers but if we’re being presumptuous I bet that’s vastly outweighed by the mass of work and revenue you’ve blocked, and don’t even know about, because it doesn’t fit the rigidity. 
Compliance is already being automated out. I don’t need an FTE doing a SAR check and completing the audit trail for when the SEC investigate me, a robot can. Plus they’re far more fun than compliance bods and won’t hammer my budget 

Compliance is a very broad term though and I'd argue that a human would have more flexibility than a bot. Some processes can of course be more automated but it still needs a human to give it a once over to see if things make sense.

 

I guess automated no more or less of a risk to compliance than a lot of professional services, like accountancy.

[grobyfox1990]

5 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying there aren't drones (mind you there are plenty in practise as well despite progress in audit automation), but you should well understand the importance of and reliance on a good system of controls, whether that is automated or not. 

 

And yes of course I have been responsible for my companies not taking on poor business - that is the job.  Low margin, high risk contracts, suspect customer relationships, jurisdictions where corruption is rife, poor safety for our employees - there are myriad good reasons not to take on a contract or customer or market - and as a director of a number of companies with hundreds of millions of turnover I can tell you that legal and finance review is more important to me and the company than keeping a sales guy happy.

Good post. Agreed loads of drones in external audit. I’m not a rogue trying to do business with Russian clients, but more often than not compliance don’t act with a can do attitude, plenty of course who do 

 

12 minutes ago, Nalis said:

Compliance is a very broad term though and I'd argue that a human would have more flexibility than a bot. Some processes can of course be more automated but it still needs a human to give it a once over to see if things make sense.

 

I guess automated no more or less of a risk to compliance than a lot of professional services, like accountancy.

that’s my point, humans have more flexibility than robots and that’s why they are hired in these roles, which are not revenue generating and are just cost bases only. But those humans who don’t act like humans in back office roles will be automated out of a job. 

[Nalis]

24 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Good post. Agreed loads of drones in external audit. I’m not a rogue trying to do business with Russian clients, but more often than not compliance don’t act with a can do attitude, plenty of course who do 

 

that’s my point, humans have more flexibility than robots and that’s why they are hired in these roles, which are not revenue generating and are just cost bases only. But those humans who don’t act like humans in back office roles will be automated out of a job. 

Ah fair enough, morning coffee hasnt quite kicked in - ironically an issue a bot wouldnt have ha

Edited 28 April 2023 by Nalis