Barnes

[Raj]

He'll be gone by the weekend.

[Bluearmyfox28]

51 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

We have a wage bill of 80m a year. And, seeing as we have already spunked the parachute money, we need to raise 80m net just to cover the player wages. 

 

I'm gonna take a wild guess that Top is financing the fees of incoming transfers by covering the parachute money himself. But we'll assume he isn't 

 

And I'm gonna guess losing Youri, Mendy, Dan, Perez, Bertrand has saved us 12m a year. 

 

Madders wage no net saving, as it'll now be spent on Winks and Coady

 

So right now, by that, assumption 

 

That's

 

-80m

+35m Madders (net)

+12m wages saved from out of contracts

-18m on winks and Coady

 

Leaves 51m still needing to be raised, assuming no intervention from the board

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Whilst you’re on the right track, all players have had a minimum of 30% wage drop (some players higher).
 

If we work it out on the basis that all players took a 30% wage cut then instantly the wages are down too £56m a year. 
 

Based off last years salaries we have saved £25,480,000 on wages per year through sales and releases. If we take a 30% cut off that too that’ll leave us with a yearly saving in wages of £17,836,000.

 

That means our yearly wage salary as of right now is £38,164,000. The wage situation is looking loads better compared to what it was.

 

Basically, the sale of Maddison would have more or less covered the existing yearly wages minus any additions.

 

For comparison the highest wage budget in the championship last year was supposedly Watford at £26.8m and the lowest in the premier league was supposedly Brentford at £33.2m.

[Paninistickers]

1 hour ago, Bluearmyfox28 said:

Whilst you’re on the right track, all players have had a minimum of 30% wage drop (some players higher).
 

If we work it out on the basis that all players took a 30% wage cut then instantly the wages are down too £56m a year. 
 

Based off last years salaries we have saved £25,480,000 on wages per year through sales and releases. If we take a 30% cut off that too that’ll leave us with a yearly saving in wages of £17,836,000.

 

That means our yearly wage salary as of right now is £38,164,000. The wage situation is looking loads better compared to what it was.

 

Basically, the sale of Maddison would have more or less covered the existing yearly wages minus any additions.

 

For comparison the highest wage budget in the championship last year was supposedly Watford at £26.8m and the lowest in the premier league was supposedly Brentford at £33.2m.

Good logic and an improvement on my figures. 

 

It looks though that the club are agressively trying to offload  certain players - Praet, Wilf, Kels, even Vardy included in the sale. I get the feel Ricardo has been told he can leave too. So, there does seem to be a financial plan to suppress the wage budget (or at least re allocate)

 

Interesting (or worrying, depend ent your view if a player) no murmurs yet on either Faes or Soumare or Daka or Vestergaard. Personally,.I'm a big fan of Wout Faes. I'd be delighted if he stays. No serious rumbles on JJ either - good news. 

 

Hopefully the club decide to pay up Danny Ward's contract in full, give him a carriage clock and send him on his way. He's toxic*. Sometimes as a business you've just gotta write it off. 

 

No suggestion his attitude is toxic. But his presence is demoralising for the crowd and I suspect certain players too (notice how no players seemed to lay into him last year after a goal. I think they knew he was awful and berating him;wasnt going to help)

Edited 29 June 2023 by Paninistickers

[Lambert09]

1 hour ago, Bluearmyfox28 said:

Whilst you’re on the right track, all players have had a minimum of 30% wage drop (some players higher).
 

If we work it out on the basis that all players took a 30% wage cut then instantly the wages are down too £56m a year. 
 

Based off last years salaries we have saved £25,480,000 on wages per year through sales and releases. If we take a 30% cut off that too that’ll leave us with a yearly saving in wages of £17,836,000.

 

That means our yearly wage salary as of right now is £38,164,000. The wage situation is looking loads better compared to what it was.

 

Basically, the sale of Maddison would have more or less covered the existing yearly wages minus any additions.

 

For comparison the highest wage budget in the championship last year was supposedly Watford at £26.8m and the lowest in the premier league was supposedly Brentford at £33.2m.

in many ways this relegation was needed. The drop in wages might give us room to get some deadwood gone that otherwise would sit around.  It gives the club the reset that it needed in terms of wages. 

 

Problem is, doesn’t seem like lessons have been learnt if coady is getting a 4 year deal. he’ll probably be up to 80k as a 34 yr old if we end up in the prem. 😫

[Lesta Legend]

18 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

in many ways this relegation was needed. The drop in wages might give us room to get some deadwood gone that otherwise would sit around.  It gives the club the reset that it needed in terms of wages. 

 

Problem is, doesn’t seem like lessons have been learnt if coady is getting a 4 year deal. he’ll probably be up to 80k as a 34 yr old if we end up in the prem. 😫

On the actual Coady thread the recent suggestion is 3 years not 4. 

 

Good strong leader and more than capable defender. Good signing IMO. 

[oldbluefox]

29 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

in many ways this relegation was needed. The drop in wages might give us room to get some deadwood gone that otherwise would sit around.  It gives the club the reset that it needed in terms of wages. 

 

Problem is, doesn’t seem like lessons have been learnt if coady is getting a 4 year deal. he’ll probably be up to 80k as a 34 yr old if we end up in the prem. 😫

Last year we needed to get rid of some of our dead wood but they were on such high wages nobody would touch them. Relegation means our wage bill needs to be reduced.

 

I don't know what Coady will be earning but if he helps to get us promoted then I don't mind and if he performs well in the Prem, no matter his age, then he will have earned whatever his contract says. Unfortunately our experiences with the likes of Bertrand and Vestergard have soured the waters and made us suspicious. We need some imaginative signings such as we had with Fuchs, Wes and Huth who will revitalise a team of deadlegs who thought they were better than they were and were happy to enjoy the delights of the Fun Palace at Seagrave.

 

If there are any who don't feel dedicated to the cause, and I don't care who they are, they should go and we start afresh. There are plenty who would relish turning out for us and would play their hearts out. It's just a matter of finding the right ones.

[StanSP]

Given the remaining contract length, I'd be holding out for £50-60m, plus add ons.

 

If they don't want to pay, see ya. 

[Bluearmyfox28]

1 hour ago, Paninistickers said:

Good logic and an improvement on my figures. 

 

It looks though that the club are agressively trying to offload  certain players - Praet, Wilf, Kels, even Vardy included in the sale. I get the feel Ricardo has been told he can leave too. So, there does seem to be a financial plan to suppress the wage budget (or at least re allocate)

 

Interesting (or worrying, depend ent your view if a player) no murmurs yet on either Faes or Soumare or Daka or Vestergaard. Personally,.I'm a big fan of Wout Faes. I'd be delighted if he stays. No serious rumbles on JJ either - good news. 

 

Hopefully the club decide to pay up Danny Ward's contract in full, give him a carriage clock and send him on his way. He's toxic*. Sometimes as a business you've just gotta write it off. 

 

No suggestion his attitude is toxic. But his presence is demoralising for the crowd and I suspect certain players too (notice how no players seemed to lay into him last year after a goal. I think they knew he was awful and berating him;wasnt going to help)

 

1 hour ago, Lambert09 said:

in many ways this relegation was needed. The drop in wages might give us room to get some deadwood gone that otherwise would sit around.  It gives the club the reset that it needed in terms of wages. 

 

Problem is, doesn’t seem like lessons have been learnt if coady is getting a 4 year deal. he’ll probably be up to 80k as a 34 yr old if we end up in the prem. 😫

Exactly this. I know there is a lot of doom slayers around currently, but relegation can actually allow us to completely hit the refresh button especially financially.
 

With the following players likely to be sold if we include a 30% wage reduction already to they’re wages, our total wages would like this prior to any incomings:

(all wages based off Spotrac and like stated include 30% wage decrease)

Danny ward £28,000

Janick Vestergaard £49,000

Timothy Castagne £45,500

Harvey Barnes £35,000

Wilfred Ndidi £52,500

Dennis Praet £52,500

Boubakary Soumare £56,000

Patson Daka £52,500

Kelechi Iheancho £56,000

Total weekly wages £427,000

Total yearly wages saved £22,204,000

Considering our yearly playing wage expenditure currently sits around £38m, with the following departures that’ll go right down to around £16m prior to any incoming signings.

[Dahnsouff]

32 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Given the remaining contract length, I'd be holding out for £50-60m, plus add ons.

 

If they don't want to pay, see ya. 

We have just set the record for most expensive transfer from the Championship, and you think we will break it again? Not saying I disagree mind.

[StanSP]

4 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

We have just set the record for most expensive transfer from the Championship, and you think we will break it again? Not saying I disagree mind.

Honestly, yep

[st albans fox]

4 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

We have just set the record for most expensive transfer from the Championship, and you think we will break it again? Not saying I disagree mind.

Have we?

are add ons included when they are unknown and may never be realised ? 

[Dahnsouff]

4 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Have we?

are add ons included when they are unknown and may never be realised ? 

Highest was Ake at €43m I think, so imagine yes, even before addons

 

 

Edited 29 June 2023 by Dahnsouff

[ALC Fox]

Really don't want him to leave.

 

Really don't want him playing against us if we come back up.

 

Feels to me like he's on the cusp of stepping up his game as well.

 

This'll be a tough one to stomach, especially to West Ham. If it were one of the Big Six it'd be a tad more palatable.

[Finnegan]

19 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

We have just set the record for most expensive transfer from the Championship, and you think we will break it again? Not saying I disagree mind.

 

We're presumably in a stronger bargaining position now that we've gained some income from selling Maddison and we KNOW that West Ham are coming in to money. I don't see Barnes going on strike in protest and he's got two years left. We also don't pay him so much money that we desperately have to get him off the wage bill, especially if Vardy's agent really is trying to get HIM off the wage bill this summer and the likes of Castagne and Choudhury are going to move on for fees. 

 

Transfer fees are never really and truly about what a player is objectively worth, they're about the bargaining position of the two parties and how much the buying club really wants it. For me, whichever of Barnes and Maddison we sold first was always going to bump up the value of the other, although it's almost certainly better for us to sell them this way round because the clock is ticking on Madders and he costs us far more.

 

Yes, we've already broken the record for a sale from the Championship - but we've also just been relegated with the most expensive squad in history, so is it a surprise? We're obviously not an ordinary club in an ordinary position at the moment. 

 

Edited 29 June 2023 by Finnegan

[Finnegan]

11 minutes ago, ALC Fox said:

 

This'll be a tough one to stomach, especially to West Ham. If it were one of the Big Six it'd be a tad more palatable.

 

Probably for him, too. What a gamble a move away to some of these teams is.

 

We're overwhelming favourites to come straight up, West Ham are one of a significant list of about 10 or so clubs all of whom could feasibly be threatened by relegation next year. The bottom half was absolutely wild this year, by rights we shouldn't have really been anywhere near it, I don't see it being any less bonkers next year. 

[Dahnsouff]

3 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

We're presumably in a stronger bargaining position now that we've gained some income from selling Maddison and we KNOW that West Ham are coming in to money. I don't see Barnes going on strike in protest and he's got two years left. We also don't pay him so much money that we desperately have to get him off the wage bill, especially if Vardy's agent really is trying to get HIM off the wage bill this summer and the likes of Castagne and Choudhury are going to move on for fees. 

 

Transfer fees are never really and truly about what a player is objectively worth, they're about the bargaining position of the two parties and how much the buying club really wants it. For me, whichever of Barnes and Maddison we sold first was always going to bump up the value of the other, although it's almost certainly better for us to sell them this way round because the clock is ticking on Madders and he costs us far more.

Just found it interesting that we could twice one window, when it has been quite sporadic from the relegated clubs

 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/transferrekorde/wettbewerb/GB2
 

It almost feels like it reinforces our shocking underperformance under Rodgers (should it happen)

[Finnegan]

1 minute ago, Dahnsouff said:

Just found it interesting that we could twice one window, when it has been quite sporadic from the relegated clubs

 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/transferrekorde/wettbewerb/GB2
 

It almost feels like it reinforces our shocking underperformance under Rodgers (should it happen)

 

Yeah I understand the history. But to iterate, we're not really in a "normal" situation right now, it'll hardly be unsurprising if we break a few more records, wanted or not.

 

I mean, hell, even before relegation - we're the club that broke the record for selling Premier League centre backs twice.

 

Edited 29 June 2023 by Finnegan

[Guest Kopfkino]

4 hours ago, Paninistickers said:

We have a wage bill of 80m a year. And, seeing as we have already spunked the parachute money, we need to raise 80m net just to cover the player wages.

 

3 hours ago, Bluearmyfox28 said:

Whilst you’re on the right track, all players have had a minimum of 30% wage drop (some players higher).
 

If we work it out on the basis that all players took a 30% wage cut then instantly the wages are down too £56m a year. 
 

Based off last years salaries we have saved £25,480,000 on wages per year through sales and releases. If we take a 30% cut off that too that’ll leave us with a yearly saving in wages of £17,836,000.

 

That means our yearly wage salary as of right now is £38,164,000. The wage situation is looking loads better compared to what it was.

 

Basically, the sale of Maddison would have more or less covered the existing yearly wages minus any additions.

 

For comparison the highest wage budget in the championship last year was supposedly Watford at £26.8m and the lowest in the premier league was supposedly Brentford at £33.2m.

I don’t know where any of these numbers are coming from but they’re not accurate.

 

The last set of accounts to May ‘22 tell us our staff cost situation - the club spent 180m on total staff costs in that account period. Benefits in kind are probably down this time around but otherwise it would only be a few million less last season.

 

Even when you take out administrative stag, casuals, coaching, manager etc - employee costs for players is probably 140-150m

 

Fulham in 2022 in the Championship reported 90m in staff costs - down from 113m in 2021 when they were in the PL.

 

 

 

 

[ronnup]

Early sale of Madders helps, means we're less desperate for money, better bargaining position. I'd be tempted to keep him

[sphericalfox]

15 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Probably for him, too. What a gamble a move away to some of these teams is.

 

We're overwhelming favourites to come straight up, West Ham are one of a significant list of about 10 or so clubs all of whom could feasibly be threatened by relegation next year. The bottom half was absolutely wild this year, by rights we shouldn't have really been anywhere near it, I don't see it being any less bonkers next year. 

They are about to get a massive £105m injection. The question he'll want to ask is will they spend it in the right places to restore some credibility if they are after him. Despite them being bobbins in the league they didn't show themselves up in Europe as they took a gamble and it paid off.

[STUHILL]

If rumours of him wanting to stay are true, then we would be foolish to force a sale through, unless we really are desperate for the cash (may well be!) 

 

I think he is a liability in helping out in tracking back and helping out in defence, but you can't argue with his goals and over all attacking threat he offers. 

[Bluearmyfox28]

12 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

 

I don’t know where any of these numbers are coming from but they’re not accurate.

 

The last set of accounts to May ‘22 tell us our staff cost situation - the club spent 180m on total staff costs in that account period. Benefits in kind are probably down this time around but otherwise it would only be a few million less last season.

 

Even when you take out administrative stag, casuals, coaching, manager etc - employee costs for players is probably 140-150m

 

Fulham in 2022 in the Championship reported 90m in staff costs - down from 113m in 2021 when they were in the PL.

 

 

 

 

As stated multiple times, this is based on player’s wages only and all figures are from Spotrac, obviously can’t get exact figures as it’s unknown.

[Guest Kopfkino]

5 minutes ago, Bluearmyfox28 said:

As stated multiple times, this is based on player’s wages only and all figures are from Spotrac, obviously can’t get exact figures as it’s unknown.

I realise that, idk they work their numbers from.

 

The exact numbers are in the accounts, they’re all you need. Ok you have to make some assumptions to work out the cost of the playing staff but if you’re spending 180m in total on employees, you know it’s considerably more than 80m being spent on players. 
 

Thankfully we’ve shifted probably 25-30m from departures and as you mentioned there will be some wage cuts but it’s nowhere near as low as stated.

[CrazyKopCorner]

Unless you can get absolutely top dollar for Barnes then it's not worth selling him. 

 

He'll be a much needed asset in the push for promotion (hopefully) 

[whoareyaaa]

4 minutes ago, CrazyKopCorner said:

Unless you can get absolutely top dollar for Barnes then it's not worth selling him. 

 

He'll be a much needed asset in the push for promotion (hopefully) 

his goals next season will be worth more than the 50/60m we will get this window, we could then offer him a new contract if we reach the Prem or sell for at least 40m but we would have gained a lot more getting promoted