Tactics Under Maresca

[dooflip]

20 minutes ago, sbfox said:

But every team that plays us will play a low block. That's a fact. You can't play 'direct' against a low block.

 

Also don't know why we should be tanking teams? Not only is the gap between the bottom half of the Prem and the Championship smaller than ever, but we're here on merit with the players we have. 

 

For fun, who would you replace Maresca with? 

We gain possession in our own half and slow it right down when there’s an opportunity for a quick counter attack. We are choosing not to score goals when opportunities arise because of tactical stubbornness and it has been like this for too long.

I have fond memories of having players staying forward when defending corners for example.

It’s just so slow and pedestrian it’s painful to watch at times.

 

We won the league, reached latter stages of European competitions, won an fa cup, bottled champions league twice but still finished 5th twice. Last year was a freak accident and was completely unacceptable, and anything less than winning the league by a country mile isn’t good enough in my book. I know that is probably an unpopular opinion but we should never have been in this position in the first place.

 

At this point in time, there isn’t many decent managers who would come to us, but had we not been a shambles of a club last season we would have gotten de zerbi when we had the chance, or someone like hutter.

[sbfox]

I guess the frustration is - and look, I know none of our opinions matter here - that some of you are setting Maresca up to fail by insisting on two up top, overlapping wing backs or a direct style. That way of football isn't coming back, for us, or most other teams.

 

Modern football is patterns, it's styles, it's knowing where you need to be in 10 passes time. Knocking it down to your strike partner isn't a viable strategy anymore. 

[RowlattsFox]

Thinking this style is unnecessarily complicated doesn't mean you want a return to the 90s. There is a massive middle ground. 

[sbfox]

3 minutes ago, dooflip said:

We gain possession in our own half and slow it right down when there’s an opportunity for a quick counter attack. We are choosing not to score goals when opportunities arise because of tactical stubbornness and it has been like this for too long.

I have fond memories of having players staying forward when defending corners for example.

It’s just so slow and pedestrian it’s painful to watch at times.

 

We won the league, reached latter stages of European competitions, won an fa cup, bottled champions league twice but still finished 5th twice. Last year was a freak accident and was completely unacceptable, and anything less than winning the league by a country mile isn’t good enough in my book. I know that is probably an unpopular opinion but we should never have been in this position in the first place.

 

At this point in time, there isn’t many decent managers who would come to us, but had we not been a shambles of a club last season we would have gotten de zerbi when we had the chance, or someone like hutter.

We're not going to be able to play on the counter, because teams won't press us high enough.

 

We won't win the league by a mile because this is the most competitive league in Europe. We don't have a standout striker and though we have a good squad, years of neglect have meant that Maresca is in rebuild mode. 

[Dahnsouff]

5 minutes ago, dooflip said:

We gain possession in our own half and slow it right down when there’s an opportunity for a quick counter attack. We are choosing not to score goals when opportunities arise because of tactical stubbornness and it has been like this for too long.

I have fond memories of having players staying forward when defending corners for example.

It’s just so slow and pedestrian it’s painful to watch at times.

 

We won the league, reached latter stages of European competitions, won an fa cup, bottled champions league twice but still finished 5th twice. Last year was a freak accident and was completely unacceptable, and anything less than winning the league by a country mile isn’t good enough in my book. I know that is probably an unpopular opinion but we should never have been in this position in the first place.

 

At this point in time, there isn’t many decent managers who would come to us, but had we not been a shambles of a club last season we would have gotten de zerbi when we had the chance, or someone like hutter.

Football has changed I am afraid. If you turn up with any sort of reputation, teams wisely don’t ‘come at you’ in order to give them the best chance of a result. When we were plucky underdogs it was fine but now, especially now that we are a big dog in this league, we won’t get that luxury, you have to slow the pace down to draw them out. Then you would push, hard and fast up the pitch when space has been left. We are not doing that currently to a good enough degree at the moment,  but….

[TrentFox]

What we saw in the first hour was pretty much Rodgers’ ball. Slow, sideways, passive, ponderous and risk averse. Keeping the ball became more important than doing something with it. It was unpleasant viewing. AFI changed the flow, along with Mav, as they sought to be more direct. Even then we hampered them by needing 3 touches before releasing a pass wide - by which time defenders have shuffled across. Sooooo frustrating. 
Enzo’s tactics aren’t wrong, though. Our average points haul is on-track to win the league by a mile! But teams will get wise, quickly. We have to add more variety and innovation to our style. Basically, have more intent & courage to play some riskier balls - and have desire from first minute, not just the 60th. 

Edited 3 September 2023 by TrentFox

[Dan]

It's going to be easy to lose your shit after a result like that but the truth is we've ridden our luck quite a lot already this season and if we had 6 points from the first 4 nobody could've said it was unjust - so it was always going to burst eventually.

 

What's concerning for me is that we don't really look any better than after one game. How long is it going to take us to even look remotely convincing against sides we're enormously more resourced than?

 

I've been in the camp of thinking they're teething problems but since that first half at Tranmere I'm really not all that convinced they are. We have got to get better - particularly with that next two.

[Bergen fox]

Nacho annoys me 

He simply does not work well as a lone striker. 
As  a 2 and he plays much better 

Edited 2 September 2023 by Kent-Fox

[Simmo86]

52 minutes ago, dooflip said:

Struggling a bit with the tactics and style of play.

We don’t seem to want to score.

And I don’t think there any excuse tbh. We should be tanking teams every week in this league, there is no excuse not to.

So far it just hasn’t been good enough, but I’ve kept my mouth shut because we’ve been getting the points. Today the landscape has changed. We lost to Hull. Think about that for an minute.

if and when this doesn’t work out, we simply cannot replace the manager with the same criteria that we have appointed previously (puel, Rodgers etc) and need to go with someone who will play high energy, high tempo pressing football with a willingness to play it forward quickly. By this I don’t been hoofball or traditional long ball, but I mean a more direct approach in terms of getting it up the pitch quickly, catching teams out, and exploiting space - this doesn’t have to be done with a long ball over the top as many seem to think when anyone mentions a direct approach. Direct football can be possession orientated to a degree, and can be played across the deck. I really struggle to understand why we don’t do this.

What’s to think about? Hull are a decent side in the same division as us. We’re going to lose games.

[Jimmy]

remember that Enzo himself says the players are only 10-20% along right now, thankfully they have another 2 weeks to drill it with minimal players away on international duty having Coady back over the plank will be an improvement

[Wink]

Take into account everything that Enzo has changed since he's come in. Complete new backroom team, squad overhaul and the transfer window closed less than 24 hours ago. 9 new faces overall and adjusting the morale and confidence of the players that were there last season.

 

His tactics have shown some promise and there's some flaws that need ironing out, but he's already said we're only 20% there in fully understanding and implementing what he wants. 

 

Some of the players will improve as the season goes on and we'll play better too. 6 wins out of 7 when we're still in 2nd gear is pretty good and I would have snapped your hand off it this in pre season which was a shambles thanks to those behind the scenes. 

 

Let's remember Enzo is only in his 2nd job and 21 games at senior level (14 parma + 7 here) as a manager in his own right and he's learning on the job too. I'm pretty impressed considering. He's now got two weeks to work on things with the majority of the squad.

[Sly]

We’ll lose game, that’s football.

 

The tactics themselves will work.

 

We do need to increase the pace through the middle of the pitch to the final third and we saw some evidence in the last 20 minutes we have the capability to do that. 

[Simmo86]

Would also be nice be someone to have an absolute defensive howler against us at some point as well.

[The Doctor]

4 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

It's going to be easy to lose your shit after a result like that but the truth is we've ridden our luck quite a lot already this season and if we had 6 points from the first 4 nobody could've said it was unjust - so it was always going to burst eventually.

 

What's concerning for me is that we don't really look any better than after one game. How long is it going to take us to even look remotely convincing against sides we're enormously more resourced than?

 

I've been in the camp of thinking they're teething problems but since that first half at Tranmere I'm really not all that convinced they are. We have got to get better - particularly with that next two.

I think they're teething problems for the squad as well as Maresca, who's quickly learning some of the players here don't have the right attitudes or the ability to play his system

[Jimmy]

Maresca really needs to work with Souttar to get him right for this system could be such an asset at both ends at set pieces

[Dahnsouff]

57 minutes ago, dooflip said:

Struggling a bit with the tactics and style of play.

We don’t seem to want to score.

And I don’t think there any excuse tbh. We should be tanking teams every week in this league, there is no excuse not to.

So far it just hasn’t been good enough, but I’ve kept my mouth shut because we’ve been getting the points. Today the landscape has changed. We lost to Hull. Think about that for an minute.

if and when this doesn’t work out, we simply cannot replace the manager with the same criteria that we have appointed previously (puel, Rodgers etc) and need to go with someone who will play high energy, high tempo pressing football with a willingness to play it forward quickly. By this I don’t been hoofball or traditional long ball, but I mean a more direct approach in terms of getting it up the pitch quickly, catching teams out, and exploiting space - this doesn’t have to be done with a long ball over the top as many seem to think when anyone mentions a direct approach. Direct football can be possession orientated to a degree, and can be played across the deck. I really struggle to understand why we don’t do this.

Bit, no, very arrogant and without any  meaningful basis I am afraid. Winning the league 7 years ago, or the FA cup 3 years ago, means nothing today. We got relegated because we deserved too. Now we need to sort it out and get back up. If you only look at the title and successful seasons, you only see those seasons, the game has massively moved on along with other teams.

[st albans fox]

Maresca isn’t going to change his philosophy 

it’s a process - it’s more important to become proficient playing his preferred style efficiently than winning every week playing a style that he considers outdated. he will believe that if we get close to where he wants us then the results will be positive often enough for us to be promoted. 
what I’m trying to say is that maresca will prefer to be promoted by a point if we are playing the style of football he wants us to well by the end of the campaign as opposed to being promoted with five games to spare having just got there because we have the second best squad in the league and got results playing however we need to. 
 

That’s going to lead to some difficult days and periods throughout the season 

[splinterdream]

11 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

Maresca really needs to work with Souttar to get him right for this system could be such an asset at both ends at set pieces

we tried the long corner to faes and he just waited for the ball to come to him, Souttar was great at attacking the ball, i think he'd be an asset if we can get him going

[Drink Water]

Need Ruben Dias on loan to tactically guide our back line, because it is becoming way too easy for the opponents to slide through and get into a goal scoring opportunity while our defenders are trying to track back.

[CosbehFox]

38 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

 

Just want to say, this is one of the best observations of the game today, well done sir! Delap clearly positioned himself to stand up against him when possible.

 

Doyle has been good for us, but had a day to forget. Connelly (I think) put him on his backside for one of their counter-attacks too.

Rotherham focused their attacks on the right side last week too. 
 

Interestingly, the two things I noticed that Hull were poor at v Bristol C. Greaves at LB plays narrow and Traore didn’t protect his full back. 
 

So today they went with Greaves at CB and Traore played in a 10 role. Greaves did go LB, Fatawu took advantage and he got booked. They made another tweak after that to protect him. 

Rosenior was on it bang on and improving Hull from the week before. Found the solutions.

[sm1]

One of the biggest criticisms of Rodgers was he only had plan A and nothing else. Enzo has a clear philosophy, which should rightly be our plan A, but what if this isn't working. Today Man City played with 2 strikers. Pep has changed football through his ingenuity and by trying different things. If Enzo forgets this and believes there's only one way to play and win, and nothing else will do, him and we will get found out. You always need to keep the opposition guessing and giving them different problems to solve.

[StriderHiryu]

6 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Rotherham focused their attacks on the right side last week too. 
 

Interestingly, the two things I noticed that Hull were poor at v Bristol C. Greaves at LB plays narrow and Traore didn’t protect his full back. 
 

So today they went with Greaves at CB and Traore played in a 10 role. Greaves did go LB, Fatawu took advantage and he got booked. They made another tweak after that to protect him. 

Rosenior was on it bang on and improving Hull from the week before. Found the solutions.

THIS is what I want to see more of in this thread! The best way to learn is to share observations and discuss those with others.

 

It's a little bit far away from the Southampton game, but the very obvious question will be "whose possession game works best"? Both teams look to control the game via possession, with Southampton doing it to almost ridiculous levels. They had 68% possession today and lost 5-0! I'm not sure if they will play Holgate again after that display given we are the opposition.

[WigstonWanderer]

Despite the the brilliant points haul for the first 4 matches, the performances have been less than convincing, and the Hull result could have occurred in practically any of them.

 

After a disjointed pre-season and having changed a large portion of the squad, Enzo now knows what he has to work with. Perhaps he’ll be able to get his system working more convincingly over the international break.

[Fox 4 Life]

I respect what Enzo is trying to do but it really isn't that effective. Hull were terribly average today but us fizzing it around the back and going down the middle did absolutely **** all to scare them. The only time we looked remotely threatening was when Stephy or Abdul ran at them but our incessant playing out the back to a non existent midfield was comical at times. Let's just start with the team that finished today and have a go at teams ffs

[CosbehFox]

13 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

THIS is what I want to see more of in this thread! The best way to learn is to share observations and discuss those with others.

 

It's a little bit far away from the Southampton game, but the very obvious question will be "whose possession game works best"? Both teams look to control the game via possession, with Southampton doing it to almost ridiculous levels. They had 68% possession today and lost 5-0! I'm not sure if they will play Holgate again after that display given we are the opposition.

I have been doing a little opposition report before every league this season. Partly to educate myself with the division and the players. 
 

Actually going through YouTube watching highlights of each game and extended highlights of certain games