Southampton (a) Pre Match Thread

[Lcfc-1992]

It won’t be, but I’d like to see

 

Hermansen

Ricardo

Faes

Doyle

Justin

Winks

KDH

Adbul

Casadei

Mavididi

Kel

[messerschmitt]

14 hours ago, SuperMike said:

People take me wrong when I get on my high horse about 'possession football' but I am actually aware of the importance of accurate, fast, progressive passing. 

My problem is with passing for passing's sake.

Oh, they say (the 'wise' ones) you need to have the ball to win the game. AND, they say, I am a dinosaur to think otherwise.

Well, to me, exciting football DOES involve passing. But football is about a heck of a lot more:

Tackling, dribbling, shooting, corners, throws, saves, punches, headers, flick ons, off-sides, fouls, blocks, speedy wingers, hard defenders, nutmegs, sweepers, midfield maestro, the ref, crosses, bookings, bit of banter, chants, tribal fans, passion, pressure, tricks, skills etc etc etc.

Call me old fashioned but I prefer FOOTBALL to KEEPBALL !!!

jumpers for goalposts

[Pliskin]

I think over the coming weeks we are going to get a pasting from one of the better championship teams.

 

Southampton do seem to be more bothered about passing than scoring themselves, but coming off the back of a 5-0 defeat, they may approach the game differently. 
 

For me, reflecting on the opening few games has given me concerns about us defensively. I don’t like this defensive set up, and I think that Hull, had they had a better forward line would have caused us a lot more bother than they did. 
 

Coventry also had this same misfortune in front of goal. We can’t defend in the transition very well at all. Doyle is a massive weak link, in possession he’s great, but out of possession he’s shown a few times that he can be done far too easily. Delap had him on toast last weekend, and this weekend he is coming up against an arguably much better player, with far more pace and potential for end product. 
 

Also on the other side, as good as Faes has been, Ricardo playing as the inverted full back leaves him exposed too, and if a team is quick in the transition, there’s no way he gets back in time to help him out.

 

Vesty is walking a right rope too, he’s looked okay, but coming up against Adams will more than likely expose him as well. 
 

So far we have gotten away with it, but there are areas all over the pitch that aren’t quite good enough, but we’ve been okay so far mainly due to the lack of quality at this level. 
 

We still turn over possession too easily when pressed in that high 8 position, KDH has been abysmal in possession so far, and N’didi can’t look after the ball properly either, which presents issues as between them they’re giving the ball away too easily, and a team with pace in the transition will kill us for it one day. 
 

I get the feeling Enzo won’t consider anything else until we get an absolute pasting….. which is more than likely to come over the next two games. 
 

I think we’re okay up front, and on the wings, but centrally, in the full back areas and defensively, we’re on the verge of being exposed horribly. Personally I’d play JJ over Doyle, to play the style Enzo wants you’ve got to have both pace and poise on the ball, and if you can’t have both you’ve really got to have pace, because if you can’t defend, then you won’t win games of football, especially not at this level as 80% of the games are like basketball games. 
 

I really worry about that defence, of Coady is fit he has to start, and Doyle has to be binned off, no matter his ability on the ball, he isn’t good enough off it, and I can see him costing us a lot of goals defending in a 1v1, especially against decent wide players. 
 

Massive two games coming up, hopefully I’m proven wrong and we dominate our way to two excellent wins, but I’ve just got an uneasy feeling about these next two games, that Enzo’s system is going to be blown apart. 
 

We’ve got the best squad in the league, but I don’t think the current set up is getting the best out of them. 

[Tommy G]

9 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

I think over the coming weeks we are going to get a pasting from one of the better championship teams.

 

Southampton do seem to be more bothered about passing than scoring themselves, but coming off the back of a 5-0 defeat, they may approach the game differently. 
 

For me, reflecting on the opening few games has given me concerns about us defensively. I don’t like this defensive set up, and I think that Hull, had they had a better forward line would have caused us a lot more bother than they did. 
 

Coventry also had this same misfortune in front of goal. We can’t defend in the transition very well at all. Doyle is a massive weak link, in possession he’s great, but out of possession he’s shown a few times that he can be done far too easily. Delap had him on toast last weekend, and this weekend he is coming up against an arguably much better player, with far more pace and potential for end product. 
 

Also on the other side, as good as Faes has been, Ricardo playing as the inverted full back leaves him exposed too, and if a team is quick in the transition, there’s no way he gets back in time to help him out.

 

Vesty is walking a right rope too, he’s looked okay, but coming up against Adams will more than likely expose him as well. 
 

So far we have gotten away with it, but there are areas all over the pitch that aren’t quite good enough, but we’ve been okay so far mainly due to the lack of quality at this level. 
 

We still turn over possession too easily when pressed in that high 8 position, KDH has been abysmal in possession so far, and N’didi can’t look after the ball properly either, which presents issues as between them they’re giving the ball away too easily, and a team with pace in the transition will kill us for it one day. 
 

I get the feeling Enzo won’t consider anything else until we get an absolute pasting….. which is more than likely to come over the next two games. 
 

I think we’re okay up front, and on the wings, but centrally, in the full back areas and defensively, we’re on the verge of being exposed horribly. Personally I’d play JJ over Doyle, to play the style Enzo wants you’ve got to have both pace and poise on the ball, and if you can’t have both you’ve really got to have pace, because if you can’t defend, then you won’t win games of football, especially not at this level as 80% of the games are like basketball games. 
 

I really worry about that defence, of Coady is fit he has to start, and Doyle has to be binned off, no matter his ability on the ball, he isn’t good enough off it, and I can see him costing us a lot of goals defending in a 1v1, especially against decent wide players. 
 

Massive two games coming up, hopefully I’m proven wrong and we dominate our way to two excellent wins, but I’ve just got an uneasy feeling about these next two games, that Enzo’s system is going to be blown apart. 
 

We’ve got the best squad in the league, but I don’t think the current set up is getting the best out of them. 

Decent balanced post this. 

[SouthStandUpperTier]

Going to be interesting to see what kind of pattern this game settles into with both teams wanting to dominate possession.

 

Another thing to note is that Southampton like to play their possession football higher up the pitch than we do

 

 

Touches in defensive 3rd

Southampton   840

Leicester          1129

 

 

Touches in middle 3rd

Southampton   2271

Leicester           1880

 

 

Touches in attacking 3rd

Southampton   1309

Leicester             870

[Ric Flair]

24 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

I think over the coming weeks we are going to get a pasting from one of the better championship teams.

 

Southampton do seem to be more bothered about passing than scoring themselves, but coming off the back of a 5-0 defeat, they may approach the game differently. 
 

For me, reflecting on the opening few games has given me concerns about us defensively. I don’t like this defensive set up, and I think that Hull, had they had a better forward line would have caused us a lot more bother than they did. 
 

Coventry also had this same misfortune in front of goal. We can’t defend in the transition very well at all. Doyle is a massive weak link, in possession he’s great, but out of possession he’s shown a few times that he can be done far too easily. Delap had him on toast last weekend, and this weekend he is coming up against an arguably much better player, with far more pace and potential for end product. 
 

Also on the other side, as good as Faes has been, Ricardo playing as the inverted full back leaves him exposed too, and if a team is quick in the transition, there’s no way he gets back in time to help him out.

 

Vesty is walking a right rope too, he’s looked okay, but coming up against Adams will more than likely expose him as well. 
 

So far we have gotten away with it, but there are areas all over the pitch that aren’t quite good enough, but we’ve been okay so far mainly due to the lack of quality at this level. 
 

We still turn over possession too easily when pressed in that high 8 position, KDH has been abysmal in possession so far, and N’didi can’t look after the ball properly either, which presents issues as between them they’re giving the ball away too easily, and a team with pace in the transition will kill us for it one day. 
 

I get the feeling Enzo won’t consider anything else until we get an absolute pasting….. which is more than likely to come over the next two games. 
 

I think we’re okay up front, and on the wings, but centrally, in the full back areas and defensively, we’re on the verge of being exposed horribly. Personally I’d play JJ over Doyle, to play the style Enzo wants you’ve got to have both pace and poise on the ball, and if you can’t have both you’ve really got to have pace, because if you can’t defend, then you won’t win games of football, especially not at this level as 80% of the games are like basketball games. 
 

I really worry about that defence, of Coady is fit he has to start, and Doyle has to be binned off, no matter his ability on the ball, he isn’t good enough off it, and I can see him costing us a lot of goals defending in a 1v1, especially against decent wide players. 
 

Massive two games coming up, hopefully I’m proven wrong and we dominate our way to two excellent wins, but I’ve just got an uneasy feeling about these next two games, that Enzo’s system is going to be blown apart. 
 

We’ve got the best squad in the league, but I don’t think the current set up is getting the best out of them. 

It's going to be interesting. We've either totally controlled huge amounts of games or then been exposed massively and it's scary what might happen against a side who aren't the complete pits in front of goal.

 

But equally, we've barely had any opportunity to rip teams apart as they're too afraid of engaging us in their half and us playing through them, it's hard to do the former without doing the latter, so we may well ourselves be the ones to benefit and before they know it, we're out of sight.

[Pliskin]

5 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

It's going to be interesting. We've either totally controlled huge amounts of games or then been exposed massively and it's scary what might happen against a side who aren't the complete pits in front of goal.

 

But equally, we've barely had any opportunity to rip teams apart as they're too afraid of engaging us in their half and us playing through them, it's hard to do the former without doing the latter, so we may well ourselves be the ones to benefit and before they know it, we're out of sight.

Absolutely right…. It’s all about how we impose ourselves on the opposition. Like you say, we could end up being 3-0 up in a blink of an eye and the games over…. We have the capacity to do so…. My only concern is those high 8’s. KDH has been honking for most of this season, and N’didi HAS to be binned as a high 8… we give the ball away far too easily, and I think that’s the worst position to concede possession, a decent team will likely be ready to counter attack, and we will be all at sixes and sevens. 
 

It’s going to be a really interesting two games…… 

[Wolfox]

When Coady does play

 

is it definitely Vestergaard he’s replacing?

 

Based on form this season he’d be unlucky…

 

Doyle has made more errors I’d say…. 

[filbertway]

3 minutes ago, Wolfox said:

When Coady does play

 

is it definitely Vestergaard he’s replacing?

 

Based on form this season he’d be unlucky…

 

Doyle has made more errors I’d say…. 

Put Vestergaard at left back and I imagine he'd look even worse than Doyle has done.

[AjcW]

1 hour ago, Lcfc-1992 said:

It won’t be, but I’d like to see

 

Hermansen

Ricardo

Faes

Doyle

Justin

Winks

KDH

Adbul

Casadei

Mavididi

Kel

Cas is playing tomorrow so don't think he will start, also a bit worrying that Faes will likely play tomorrow too. 

 

I guess it's not massively different to playing Saturday, Tuesday, but there is the added element of returning back to us and trying to fit a session in/travel down to Southampton.

[OriginalRobboFOX]

15 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Put Vestergaard at left back and I imagine he'd look even worse than Doyle has done.

I don’t understand why we don’t see JJ in place of Doyle. He can play LB and CB and seems perfect for that role where he has to become 3rd CB when Ricky goes into midfield. I would have expected to have seen Enzo try this in a league game by now having watched Doyle’s up and down performances…

 

That said Doyle has the mitigation of having to deal with Yunus in that 1st half against Hull and he was doggo. 

[ts_1010]

I'd much rather see JJ operate in that role. What we lose 8n passing ability we will make up in defensive solidity down that side.

 

I worry that the hull game has shown teams that we have a weakness in that area.

[sacreblueits442]

40 minutes ago, OriginalRobboFOX said:

That said Doyle has the mitigation of having to deal with Yunus in that 1st half against Hull and he was doggo. 

...did Akgun start for us on the left, as I recall he swapped with Fatawu!!!

[Tommy G]

1 hour ago, Wolfox said:

When Coady does play

 

is it definitely Vestergaard he’s replacing?

 

Based on form this season he’d be unlucky…

 

Doyle has made more errors I’d say…. 

Agree but that would go against the Doyle love in, he's 19 and has a tonne to learn - been at fault for a number of our goals this seasom.

[CosbehFox]

13 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...did Akgun start for us on the left, as I recall he swapped with Fatawu!!!

No he played right wing only. 

[CosbehFox]

57 minutes ago, OriginalRobboFOX said:

That said Doyle has the mitigation of having to deal with Yunus in that 1st half against Hull and he was doggo. 

Yunus played on the right. McAteer on the left. 

[Stadt]

We're better when teams have more of a go at us. When Coventry pressed us higher up we played around them with the 3-2 build up shape so well, that it opened up so space to attack into (like Brighton do so well). Against more stand-offish teams the same system is sort of redundant, the spare men need to be higher up the pitch.

 

I can see us creating more here than the Rotherham/Hull type games

[lcfcdamo]

1 hour ago, OriginalRobboFOX said:

I don’t understand why we don’t see JJ in place of Doyle. He can play LB and CB and seems perfect for that role where he has to become 3rd CB when Ricky goes into midfield. I would have expected to have seen Enzo try this in a league game by now having watched Doyle’s up and down performances…

 

That said Doyle has the mitigation of having to deal with Yunus in that 1st half against Hull and he was doggo. 

This is something i really just dont get move doyle to replace vestergarbage and try justin in that place im so confident we would be a better team like that 🤷‍♂️

[OriginalRobboFOX]

33 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Yunus played on the right. McAteer on the left. 

My bad. Either way he looked exposed. Like he did against Cov when Stephy decided tracking back was optional…

[Guppys Love Child]

23 minutes ago, lcfcdamo said:

This is something i really just dont get move doyle to replace vestergarbage and try justin in that place im so confident we would be a better team like that 🤷‍♂️

I hear you my friend, and anything to get 'Lurch' out of the team is a win for me. But I guess Enzo see's JJ as the  inferior passer of the 3 we have just mentioned hence he's bench warming

[CosbehFox]

25 minutes ago, Stadt said:

We're better when teams have more of a go at us. When Coventry pressed us higher up we played around them with the 3-2 build up shape so well, that it opened up so space to attack into (like Brighton do so well). Against more stand-offish teams the same system is sort of redundant, the spare men need to be higher up the pitch.

 

I can see us creating more here than the Rotherham/Hull type games

Agreed, and that's been unacknowledged in most analyst/critics. Game against Coventry was different than the other four IMO. Yet to do my re-watch of Saints but I suspect there will be joy in the space vacated by Manning (who I think is very average) and Walker-Peters. 

[Stadt]

2 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Agreed, and that's been unacknowledged in most analyst/critics. Game against Coventry was different than the other four IMO. Yet to do my re-watch of Saints but I suspect there will be joy in the space vacated by Manning (who I think is very average) and Walker-Peters. 

My concern is that Maresca is overly wedded to playing this way, it's all well and good saying it'll click with time but

a) teams will adapt to us and find ways to nullify the system 

b) what if it doesn't?

 

The reason Pep (and the coaching staff at Man City) arrived on a system like this is because they exhausted other options. This system hasn't 'solved' football. I'd rather we tweaked things proactively rather than waiting for chronic issues to surface.

[Supergray22]

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

It's going to be interesting. We've either totally controlled huge amounts of games or then been exposed massively and it's scary what might happen against a side who aren't the complete pits in front of goal.

 

But equally, we've barely had any opportunity to rip teams apart as they're too afraid of engaging us in their half and us playing through them, it's hard to do the former without doing the latter, so we may well ourselves be the ones to benefit and before they know it, we're out of sight.

The Southampton game should really tell us a lot about this system and the squad. Doyle has been good in possession and not as bad as some say defending as he has been left exposed a bit on that side and is still so young. If coady is fit I think Doyle would fare better with coady alongside him and Faes in the other side. Against those better teams who won’t just sit back we do need pace and I’d like to see Justin feature more. So far we have been too laboured going forward and saved by some individual performances. If we can click into another gear going forward and tighten up in those mistakes at the back then we should be fine. That’s a big ask though and if we do continue to limp along then Enzo will be looking to make tweaks or changes. Well I hope he will.
 

We definitely haven’t found our best attacking setup yet either and we need to before we can properly start to get to the next level. 

[hackneyfox]

3 hours ago, Pliskin said:

I think over the coming weeks we are going to get a pasting from one of the better championship teams.

 

Southampton do seem to be more bothered about passing than scoring themselves, but coming off the back of a 5-0 defeat, they may approach the game differently. 
 

For me, reflecting on the opening few games has given me concerns about us defensively. I don’t like this defensive set up, and I think that Hull, had they had a better forward line would have caused us a lot more bother than they did. 
 

Coventry also had this same misfortune in front of goal. We can’t defend in the transition very well at all. Doyle is a massive weak link, in possession he’s great, but out of possession he’s shown a few times that he can be done far too easily. Delap had him on toast last weekend, and this weekend he is coming up against an arguably much better player, with far more pace and potential for end product. 
 

Also on the other side, as good as Faes has been, Ricardo playing as the inverted full back leaves him exposed too, and if a team is quick in the transition, there’s no way he gets back in time to help him out.

 

Vesty is walking a right rope too, he’s looked okay, but coming up against Adams will more than likely expose him as well. 
 

So far we have gotten away with it, but there are areas all over the pitch that aren’t quite good enough, but we’ve been okay so far mainly due to the lack of quality at this level. 
 

We still turn over possession too easily when pressed in that high 8 position, KDH has been abysmal in possession so far, and N’didi can’t look after the ball properly either, which presents issues as between them they’re giving the ball away too easily, and a team with pace in the transition will kill us for it one day. 
 

I get the feeling Enzo won’t consider anything else until we get an absolute pasting….. which is more than likely to come over the next two games. 
 

I think we’re okay up front, and on the wings, but centrally, in the full back areas and defensively, we’re on the verge of being exposed horribly. Personally I’d play JJ over Doyle, to play the style Enzo wants you’ve got to have both pace and poise on the ball, and if you can’t have both you’ve really got to have pace, because if you can’t defend, then you won’t win games of football, especially not at this level as 80% of the games are like basketball games. 
 

I really worry about that defence, of Coady is fit he has to start, and Doyle has to be binned off, no matter his ability on the ball, he isn’t good enough off it, and I can see him costing us a lot of goals defending in a 1v1, especially against decent wide players. 
 

Massive two games coming up, hopefully I’m proven wrong and we dominate our way to two excellent wins, but I’ve just got an uneasy feeling about these next two games, that Enzo’s system is going to be blown apart. 
 

We’ve got the best squad in the league, but I don’t think the current set up is getting the best out of them. 

So we have the best squad but you’ve just written an essay about how appalling the defence is.

Did you miss the post pointing out how we are giving away fewer chances game by game?

[hackneyfox]

1 hour ago, Tommy G said:

Agree but that would go against the Doyle love in, he's 19 and has a tonne to learn - been at fault for a number of our goals this seasom.

A number?

Just how many?