UFOs

[fox_up_north]

The older I get, the more I'm of the opinion that it's just us. The things that have to happen for life to get to an even rudimentary level seem a quadrillion to one.

 

I don't believe in a higher being than us that created things, nor do I think it's worth bothering worrying about whether there is life up there.

 

All it does is make me think just how miraculous we are and how we're absolutely squandering it. 

[stripeyfox]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_Earth_hypothesis

 

If anyone has a spare few minutes this is a good read - the "Rare Earth Hypothesis" which sets out some reasons why complex life in the universe may be exceptionally rare due to a series of very rare conditions and fortunate circumstances that lead to advanced life on Earth.

 

There are also some credible counter arguments to REH but it's very interesting stuff either way.

 

 

Summary of Rare Earth Hypothesis as a solution to the Fermi Paradox:

The Rare Earth hypothesis argues that the evolution of biological complexity anywhere in the universe requires the coincidence of a large number of fortuitous circumstances, including, among others, a galactic habitable zone; a central star and planetary system having the requisite character (i.e. a circumstellar habitable zone); a terrestrial planet of the right mass; the advantage of one or more gas giant guardians like Jupiter and possibly a large natural satellite to shield the planet from frequent impact events; conditions needed to ensure the planet has a magnetosphere and plate tectonics; a chemistry similar to that present in the Earth's lithosphere, atmosphere, and oceans; the influence of periodic "evolutionary pumps" such as massive glaciations and bolide impacts; and whatever factors may have led to the emergence of eukaryotic cells, sexual reproduction, and the Cambrian explosion of animal, plant, and fungi phyla. The evolution of human beings and of human intelligence may have required yet further specific events and circumstances, all of which are extremely unlikely to have happened were it not for the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event 66 million years ago removing dinosaurs as the dominant terrestrial vertebrates.

In order for a small rocky planet to support complex life, Ward and Brownlee argue, the values of several variables must fall within narrow ranges. The universe is so vast that it might still contain many Earth-like planets, but if such planets exist, they are likely to be separated from each other by many thousands of light-years. Such distances may preclude communication among any intelligent species that may evolve on such planets, which would solve the Fermi paradox: "If extraterrestrial aliens are common, why aren't they obvious?"

Edited 15 September 2023 by stripeyfox

[worth_the_wait]

9 hours ago, Sly said:

The chance we are the only planet with living organisms seems crazy.

 

Other plants will exist like ours.

 

They’ll most likely be different and not loom anything like us. They will also not be visiting us in a flying saucer. 

They most definitely will.    Haven't you seen the 1970 TV series UFO?   It shows clearly that they are flying, spinning saucers.

[The Quick Brown Fox]

I have seen something yes, my brother and I were night fishing at wicksteed park in about 1992 and in the middle of the night there was this thing that appeared and hovered above the lake, no real lights just a slight glow to it, and it was silent. I was staring then my brother noticed it, both still talk about it to this day. 

 

However, we were burning plastic Milk crates at the time so the inhaling those fumes may have had something to do with it 🤣. 

 

 

[Trumpet]

1 hour ago, fox_up_north said:

The older I get, the more I'm of the opinion that it's just us. The things that have to happen for life to get to an even rudimentary level seem a quadrillion to one.

 

I don't believe in a higher being than us that created things, nor do I think it's worth bothering worrying about whether there is life up there.

 

All it does is make me think just how miraculous we are and how we're absolutely squandering it. 

The odds are in favour then as there’s an estimated 700 quintillion planets in the known universe. The numbers are far too big for me to wrap my tiny brain around them, but a quintillion is more than a quadrillion at least.

[Trumpet]

I’ve started to read “In Plain Sight” by Ross Coulthart. A good read so far.

[leicsmac]

Yeah, the simple answer regarding extraterrestrial life is that we don't know and we don't have nearly enough information to be sure either way.

 

However, given that we have found liquid water and other chemical compounds indicative of the presence of life in this Solar System alone (Europa, Enceladus, Venus), I think it's at least a reasonable assumption to think that there is microbial life out there, given the sheer number of objects out there. That's law of averages.

 

"Intelligent", spacefaring life that could visit us and/or contact us in a way we could understand? That's another matter and another layer of complexity entirely.

[Grebfromgrebland]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned ancient aliens yet.

 

Which is actually quite interesting if you're interested in ancient cultures even if you don't believe in aliens.

[Zear0]

Obviously no evidence for them in the report as the temporal prime directive prevents them interfering in our affairs. 

 

On a less nerdy response, did read a good thought on how we would communicate even if ET came to visit. We share 90% of DNA with mice and dogs and 99% with some primates. How close are we to conversing with those that were so similar to? Might be impossible to converse even if we're not alone and we someone traversed the distances. 

[fox_up_north]

Just now, Zear0 said:

 share 90% of DNA with mice and dogs and 99% with some primates. How close are we to conversing with those that were so similar to?

I'll be honest - having a chinwag with a dog holds my interest more than finding aliens.

[Trumpet]

8 minutes ago, Zear0 said:

Obviously no evidence for them in the report as the temporal prime directive prevents them interfering in our affairs. 

 

On a less nerdy response, did read a good thought on how we would communicate even if ET came to visit. We share 90% of DNA with mice and dogs and 99% with some primates. How close are we to conversing with those that were so similar to? Might be impossible to converse even if we're not alone and we someone traversed the distances. 

We’d likely point missiles at them 

 

Aside from your point on communication and more of a putting this out there - there’s often the question of why do they travel all this way to watch us? I’d argue it’s similar to how humans visit zoo’s to watch ape’s scratch their backsides and fling shit at each other.

 

Ive mentioned before that I think the UAP phenomena is often linked heavily to extra terrestrial’s but there’s been a shift recently, particularly from those involved in the congressional hearings that these things are not necessarily of ET origin. They’re pushing the term NHI (non human intelligence) which isn’t inherently extra terrestrial. I genuinely believe this is weirder than little green men flying saucers. Possibly objects or stuff from dimensions we can’t perceive.

 

 

[Zear0]

6 minutes ago, Trumpet said:

We’d likely point missiles at them 

 

Aside from your point on communication and more of a putting this out there - there’s often the question of why do they travel all this way to watch us? I’d argue it’s similar to how humans visit zoo’s to watch ape’s scratch their backsides and fling shit at each other.

 

Ive mentioned before that I think the UAP phenomena is often linked heavily to extra terrestrial’s but there’s been a shift recently, particularly from those involved in the congressional hearings that these things are not necessarily of ET origin. They’re pushing the term NHI (non human intelligence) which isn’t inherently extra terrestrial. I genuinely believe this is weirder than little green men flying saucers. Possibly objects or stuff from dimensions we can’t perceive.

 

 

Or it turns into the plot of Predator...

[joachim1965]

Inter dimensional is a distinct possibility.

[fox_up_north]

FT

Friday, 15th September

 

[joachim1965]

Mexicans presented these as 1000 year old alien mummified remains, they look fake to be fair.

[joachim1965]

3hr 13 "alien" bodies.

 

[Raj]

21 minutes ago, joachim1965 said:

3hr 13 "alien" bodies.

 

ET and his mate

[worth_the_wait]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

However, given that we have found liquid water and other chemical compounds indicative of the presence of life in this Solar System alone (Europa, Enceladus, Venus), I think it's at least a reasonable assumption to think that there is microbial life out there, given the sheer number of objects out there. That's law of averages.

 

The thing is ... if we're honest, we still have no real idea how life started on Earth.

 

Scientists can point to all the right conditions being available on Earth for life .... as in temperature, atmospheric pressure, elements/compounds etc ... but how did that "first bit" of life start? 

 

(I'm a bit cynical of the "get all the ingredients in the jam jar, add water, light, temperature, pressure, shake and hey presto .... life!)

 

I'm a believer in the all or nothing theory.     Either life is as common as muck, and there are trillions of life-forms out there in the universe.   Or it's unique, and there was just one "blob" of life and it found its way to Earth ... and we are totally alone and unique.      I'm confident it's not 42.

[leicsmac]

23 minutes ago, worth_the_wait said:

The thing is ... if we're honest, we still have no real idea how life started on Earth.

 

Scientists can point to all the right conditions being available on Earth for life .... as in temperature, atmospheric pressure, elements/compounds etc ... but how did that "first bit" of life start? 

 

(I'm a bit cynical of the "get all the ingredients in the jam jar, add water, light, temperature, pressure, shake and hey presto .... life!)

 

I'm a believer in the all or nothing theory.     Either life is as common as muck, and there are trillions of life-forms out there in the universe.   Or it's unique, and there was just one "blob" of life and it found its way to Earth ... and we are totally alone and unique.      I'm confident it's not 42.

We've already found chemical markers in other places that we believe only microbial life produces (at least here on Earth). That, for me, while not definitive, is a sign that the former of your assumptions is correct and there is at least simple microbial life in a great many places in the Universe, even if we don't know exactly how such life "began".

[dsr-burnley]

1 hour ago, Trumpet said:

We’d likely point missiles at them 

 

Aside from your point on communication and more of a putting this out there - there’s often the question of why do they travel all this way to watch us? I’d argue it’s similar to how humans visit zoo’s to watch ape’s scratch their backsides and fling shit at each other.

 

Ive mentioned before that I think the UAP phenomena is often linked heavily to extra terrestrial’s but there’s been a shift recently, particularly from those involved in the congressional hearings that these things are not necessarily of ET origin. They’re pushing the term NHI (non human intelligence) which isn’t inherently extra terrestrial. I genuinely believe this is weirder than little green men flying saucers. Possibly objects or stuff from dimensions we can’t perceive.

 

 

I doubt that pointing missiles would do any good.  If aliens found a way to cross space they would necessarily be far advanced technologically than us, and we would be in the position of the Aborigines / Indians / Aztecs / other indigenous peoples getting overwhelmed and essentially wiped out by the invaders.

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, dsr-burnley said:

I doubt that pointing missiles would do any good.  If aliens found a way to cross space they would necessarily be far advanced technologically than us, and we would be in the position of the Aborigines / Indians / Aztecs / other indigenous peoples getting overwhelmed and essentially wiped out by the invaders.

This is assuming that an alien ethical value structure would be in any way similar to human ethical value structures, which is of course no way guaranteed.

 

Of course, if it is true then it's totally correct - we would be entirely at whatever mercy they had, if any.

[SpacedX]

4 hours ago, worth_the_wait said:

The thing is ... if we're honest, we still have no real idea how life started on Earth.

 

Scientists can point to all the right conditions being available on Earth for life .... as in temperature, atmospheric pressure, elements/compounds etc ... but how did that "first bit" of life start? 

 

(I'm a bit cynical of the "get all the ingredients in the jam jar, add water, light, temperature, pressure, shake and hey presto .... life!)

 

I'm a believer in the all or nothing theory.     Either life is as common as muck, and there are trillions of life-forms out there in the universe.   Or it's unique, and there was just one "blob" of life and it found its way to Earth ... and we are totally alone and unique.      I'm confident it's not 42.

Decades of extensive research have yielded little in the way of identifying the mechanism of abiogenesis. There are a range of different theories concerning the origin of life, and none of them have been proven. Laboratory experiments have made some inroads into creating biomolecules such as amino acids from gaseous precursors. Look up the Miller-Urey experiment which is the most famous of these. But scientists have yet to come even close to reproducing life in the laboratory. This strongly implies that as I suggested previously, life does not evolve easily. Even if we were to cede the point that life can evolve easily given enough time, the vast majority of exoplanets are nonetheless inhospitable to life. New research suggests that most stars are incapable of supporting plant life via photosynthesis. Harvesting a star’s energy is the first step for the evolution of life, but evolution cannot even be initiated if there is not enough of it. Saying that, NASA estimates that there are 100 billion exoplanets in our galaxy alone. Given the vastness of time and space, it is statistically unlikely that we are the exceptions throughout the history or cosmos, or that "a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away", civilisations and intelligent sentient beings have not evolved and existed. 

[SkidsFox]

Space is big (where did I read that?)  So big, really that it's too big to travel and meet the other life forms out there.

Or it could just be that all life forms invariably trash their planet (global warming? nuclear war? pollution stopping reproduction capability?) once they get to a certain point. We could call it the Trump point.

[Dahnsouff]

59 minutes ago, SkidsFox said:

Space is big (where did I read that?)  So big, really that it's too big to travel and meet the other life forms out there.

Or it could just be that all life forms invariably trash their planet (global warming? nuclear war? pollution stopping reproduction capability?) once they get to a certain point. We could call it the Trump point.

Pretty sure space being so annoyingly large is just some galactic allegory about climate change and the lack of the need to drive/fly to every single place

Edited 15 September 2023 by Dahnsouff

[Benguin]

The chances of another life form being capable of traveling to earth are remote. Space is massive and discovering how to travel fast enough would be the easiest problem to solve. 
 

I’m not sure about the things that have been in the media over the last few years but id be inclined towards phenomena being of angelic/demonic origins as opposed to aliens if such things are not elaborate hoaxes or have earrhly explanations.