AI - A force for Good or Evil??

[Greg2607]

thought it would be good to have a topic around all things AI... where are people seeing positive impacts in work or at home and does it spell the end for all humanity as Elon Musk seems to catastrophise about!!?

[DoveValleyFox]

It might be a sneaky way of getting rid of crap like Ward by creating a video of "brilliant" saves, blocks, clearances etc. 

 

No catastrophe..... at least not for us.

[Mark_w]

Both.

[Izzy]

[leicsmac]

9 minutes ago, Mark_w said:

Both.

Right answer.

 

This popped up a few months back and I'm copypastaing my own thoughts from there as they still apply"

 

The Good: AI has the potential to solve an extremely large number of problems that humanity has both now and in the future. Calculations and repetitive tasks, production of resources and oversight thereof that would be much more efficient than a human, solving complex logistical problems where a human could not...and that's just a very few of a multitude of potential uses. It has the potential to make this world so much better and render humans so much freer by giving them the most valuable resource of all - time.

 

The Bad: However, such utilisation is only as good or bad as the people who utlilise it, and therein lies a big problem - it can also be used to oppress and control in a way that no other civilisation has had at its fingertips until now, due to the sheer amount of elements it can be put in charge of. It can also be used to further inequality and thus civil unrest by putting a lot of creative artists out of jobs while furthering profit for those at the top who control it. The science fiction scenario of it being put in charge of weapons of mass destruction that are then used to destroy us is fanciful (because a decision to remove humans from such decision-making really isn't going to happen because everyone is aware of that exact trope), but it doesn't have to be that direct to cause a great deal of suffering to human civilisation.

 

So, overall, it's the same as any other tech development - dependent on the humans who control it - only on a much larger scale than tech developments in the past, even more than the steam engine or the Internet. We should embrace it, but we must also be damn careful.

 

[foxy boxing]

Like everything it will be abused by people. With everything there are going to be good things about it and there will be bad. It's about having the proper regulations and laws to stop the abuses or criminal behaviour which people would want to use it for. It would help enormously in advancing technologies and help in the medical field to find cures and prolong life.

[grobyfox1990]

Good in theory. The amount of time you still have to spend on pointless crap such as insurance claims, tax returns, refunds, form filling, check boxing, press * for more options etc etc is astounding.

 

Clearly bad in reality. Will exacerbate inequality (the proven number 1 threat facing the world whatever XR, JSO or whichever Instagram group is now in fashion want to tell you) and create USA like human desert zones around the world. And we, the 99%, won't do anything to stop it

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Good in theory. The amount of time you still have to spend on pointless crap such as insurance claims, tax returns, refunds, form filling, check boxing, press * for more options etc etc is astounding.

 

Clearly bad in reality. Will exacerbate inequality (the proven number 1 threat facing the world whatever XR, JSO or whichever Instagram group is now in fashion want to tell you) and create USA like human desert zones around the world. And we, the 99%, won't do anything to stop it

Point of order: IMO inequality is bad morally and also practically because it detracts from our ability to face those kinds of natural (or manmade) threats, so I'd say it's more an adjutant to them than being more threatening by itself.

[grobyfox1990]

3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Point of order: IMO inequality is bad morally and also practically because it detracts from our ability to face those kinds of natural (or manmade) threats, so I'd say it's more an adjutant to them than being more threatening by itself.

I agree with your opinion, but it's our opinion. The number one threat facing our world as told to us by global policymakers (Davos, WEF, various think tanks) is inequality. It is threatening in itself because right now we have a ruling class of 1-2%, administrative class of 7-8% and then everyone else with £50 left at the end of the month, if they're lucky, which in theory is a miserable existence. That has nothing to do with climate. As the saying goes: no point saving the world if the world is a miserable place to live in for 90% of us.

 

I think AI exacerbates those class percentages.

[leicsmac]

14 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

I agree with your opinion, but it's our opinion. The number one threat facing our world as told to us by global policymakers (Davos, WEF, various think tanks) is inequality. It is threatening in itself because right now we have a ruling class of 1-2%, administrative class of 7-8% and then everyone else with £50 left at the end of the month, if they're lucky, which in theory is a miserable existence. That has nothing to do with climate. As the saying goes: no point saving the world if the world is a miserable place to live in for 90% of us.

 

I think AI exacerbates those class percentages.

I'd rather The Expanse than oblivion tbh (though for me the former leads to the latter in short order anyway), but yeah, fair points all.

Edited 3 November 2023 by leicsmac

[An Away Move]

AI will bring both amazing benefits and terrible consequences. There's a wonderful book called The Shallows, which is about the benefits and the drawbacks about the internet. It has chapters on the amazing benefits of other civilisation changing inventions like the printing press, the clock, and guns. Each one brings game changing benefits, but each one has a dark and unforeseen underbelly. AI will be exactly the same, but felt more keenly IMO. I fear what it will do for misinformation and politics. It will be even harder to discern what is true and what isn't, with terrifying consequences. In other areas it will be amazing.

[st albans fox]

Can anyone name an ‘advance’ over the millennia  which hasn’t been both good and bad in its consequences ?

 

 

[urban.spaceman]

I asked ChatGPT and it said this:

 

The potential impact of AI is complex and multifaceted, and its consequences largely depend on how it is developed, deployed, and regulated. AI can be used for both good and harmful purposes, and its ethical implications have been a subject of considerable debate. 

On the positive side, AI has the potential to revolutionize various sectors, including healthcare, education, transportation, and many others, by enhancing efficiency, productivity, and innovation. It can aid in the development of life-saving medical technologies, improve disaster response, and help in the conservation of natural resources. AI can also automate tedious and dangerous tasks, freeing up humans to focus on more creative and intellectually stimulating endeavors. Additionally, AI can facilitate data analysis, leading to insights that can help solve complex problems and inform decision-making processes.

However, AI also poses potential risks and challenges. There are concerns about job displacement due to automation, the potential for biased decision-making in AI algorithms, and the misuse of AI for malicious purposes, such as the spread of misinformation, surveillance, and warfare. Moreover, the rapid advancement of AI technology has raised ethical dilemmas regarding privacy, security, and the potential loss of human control over AI systems.

To ensure that AI is a force for good, it is crucial to prioritize the development of ethical guidelines and regulations that promote transparency, accountability, and fairness in AI systems. Collaborative efforts between policymakers, researchers, and industry stakeholders are essential to address the potential risks associated with AI and to foster its responsible and beneficial deployment. It is imperative to promote a holistic approach that prioritizes the well-being of society and emphasizes the ethical use of AI technology to maximize its positive impact while mitigating its potential risks.

[An Away Move]

There's also an interesting book 'Talking to My Daughter About the Economy: A Brief History of Capitalism' by Yanis Varoufakis. Towards the end he speculates about AI will change the world. In short he predicts a kind of end of capitalism because AI will decimate so many job sectors there simply won't be enough waged people to keep buying products, which means the collapse of companies. The only way around this is that society shifts to being non-working people on universal wages. He predicts this will be a political battlefield. Corporations will want governments to pick up the tab for universal wages, he argues that it should be corporations that contribute to it, since they'll need it to survive.

[Jattdogg]

Both (obviously).

 

Looking forward to the leaked videos  implicating people in all kinds of situations.  Yikes.

 

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Can anyone name an ‘advance’ over the millennia  which hasn’t been both good and bad in its consequences ?

 

 

The first harvesting machine (and other associated agricultural devices). A landmark that allowed the development of modern civilisation as we know it and made the lives of everyone immeasurably easier.

 

And Internet porn.

[Daggers]

AI will be used to further shift the imbalance in power and wealth away from the disenfranchised. No one at Sunak’s little summit gives a stuff about people. 

[Finnegan]

11 minutes ago, Daggers said:

AI will be used to further shift the imbalance in power and wealth away from the disenfranchised. No one at Sunak’s little summit gives a stuff about people. 

 

Exactly. 

 

We need a perfect (or at least much fairer) world before we add AI to it. 

 

What AI should do is turn us all in to Spartans. No, not a laconic warrior caste, but the actual Spartans - a people of leisure and culture who got to enjoy their lives and take up artistic and entertainment pursuits whilst the unfortunate slave caste did all the graft. 

 

If we can mechanise all of our needs so that people are free to live lives of leisure pursuing recreational activities and being happy and fulfilled then yeah great, bring on the ai. 

 

But what will actually happen is that the billionaire ruling class will realise that they can plug in AI, get rid of the cost of labour and leave the workforce largely unemployed whilst they hoard all the benefits and savings for themselves. 

 

We've already seen this happen to an extent with the dawn of robotics in manufacturing and whilst I'm all for progress and efficency speeding up our means of manufacture, if it comes at the cost of millions of people being out of work then that's a societal problem we have to fix. 

 

We're at a major cross roads globally where capitalism is hitting breaking point and the younger generations are starting to slowly wake up and get seriously fvcked off with how unfair the world is. The gap between the wealthiest and the average Joe now for Gen Z as they come of age is drastically, unimaginably bigger than it was when the Boomers hit their early 20s. It's gotten way out of hand. 

 

If we don't fix that before AI really gains momentum then Gen Alpha won't have a workforce to enter by the time they're done with their education and I don't think that's overly melodramatic. 

 

Forget all the Skynet paranoia and the silly sci-fi rubbish about robot takeovers, as ever, the biggest problem will just be people and greed. 

 

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Exactly. 

 

We need a perfect (or at least much fairer) world before we add AI to it. 

 

What AI should do is turn us all in to Spartans. No, not a laconic warrior caste, but the actual Spartans - a people of leisure and culture who got to enjoy their lives and take up artistic and entertainment pursuits whilst the unfortunate slave caste did all the graft. 

 

If we can mechanise all of our needs so that people are free to live lives of leisure pursuing recreational activities and being happy and fulfilled then yeah great, bring on the ai. 

 

But what will actually happen is that the billionaire ruling class will realise that they can plug in AI, get rid of the cost of labour and leave the workforce largely unemployed whilst they hoard all the benefits and savings for themselves. 

 

We've already seen this happen to an extent with the dawn of robotics in manufacturing and whilst I'm all for progress and efficency speeding up our means of manufacture, if it comes at the cost of millions of people being out of work then that's a societal problem we have to fix. 

 

We're at a major cross roads globally where capitalism is hitting breaking point and the younger generations are starting to slowly wake up and get seriously fvcked off with how unfair the world is. The gap between the wealthiest and the average Joe now for Gen Z as they come of age is drastically, unimaginably bigger than it was when the Boomers hit their early 20s. It's gotten way out of hand. 

 

If we don't fix that before AI really gains momentum then Gen Alpha won't have a workforce to enter by the time they're done with their education and I don't think that's overly melodramatic. 

 

Forget all the Skynet paranoia and the silly sci-fi rubbish about robot takeovers, as ever, the biggest problem will just be people and greed. 

 

Absolutely this is all true.

 

However, I see too many folks using this as a justification to abandon the advancement of the tech entirely, which would be an equally bad if not worse mistake imo.

[grobyfox1990]

37 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Can anyone name an ‘advance’ over the millennia  which hasn’t been both good and bad in its consequences ?

 

 

There's simple good and bad but then there's scales of good and bad. Which AI threatens in a 'hold my beer' internet nerd meme way

[Finnegan]

4 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Absolutely this is all true.

 

However, I see too many folks using this as a justification to abandon the advancement of the tech entirely, which would be an equally bad if not worse mistake imo.

 

I don't really understand this to be honest. 

 

"We" can't abandon anything. 

 

I'm not sat in my room at home building the AI that will change the world. It's not even really government owned. We can't vote on it. 

 

 

The wealthiest people in the world are already out there funding and building this shit. 

 

AI isn't the problem, ultimately the world is. 

[Dunge]

It’s always curious to me in this that Elon Musk is the voice of caution. I expect it to be the other way around.

[Danizen]

1 hour ago, Jattdogg said:

Both (obviously).

 

Looking forward to the leaked videos  implicating people in all kinds of situations.  Yikes.

 

Or the opposite of that. 

 

Actual incriminating video evidence being discredited as fake, created by AI

[Jattdogg]

20 minutes ago, Danizen said:

Or the opposite of that. 

 

Actual incriminating video evidence being discredited as fake, created by AI

Likely will be able to detect a video isnt real but imagine how complex it could make things for police, courts, jurors.

 

So much has to be thought about but yet we have no control measures in place.

 

Way to go geeks! 

 

 

[kingkisnorbo]

I work in an industry where it threatens to destroy the very fabric of it so I’m quite biased one way. I’m sure I’d be much more forthcoming about it if I wasn’t.