Leicester 'could face points deduction next season'

[trooky]

3 hours ago, Dames said:

No we shouldnt but the future is very bleak because of mismanagement and the owners and fans are burying their heads in the sand over winning the second tier. 
 

We are not going to be able to compete for years to come and god knows where its going to land us and the ownership are getting away with it.

 

Any other club would be up in arms about how we handled the psr stuff. 

What exactly are the owners getting away with? There are far worse owners around than ours. 

 

They backed Rodgers to try and achieve champions league football and nearly succeeded.

 

It's not the owners fault that the team blew it twice, otherwise the financial situation would be a completely different story.

 

[ClaphamFox]

15 minutes ago, MonkeyTennis? said:

IMHO: we will get hit with two deductions, eight points each. We might be able to argue it down to six each, but we are probably looking at a total deduction of 12-16 points next season. 

 

Two deductions because we haven't had anything deducted for the last season, and will declare a breach again this season. Eight points because our losses are much bigger than other clubs. 

 

I agree. We have just had a great season, but there are huge stormclouds on the horizon, and they are the direct result of stunning financial mismanagement at board level. There is no cause for optimism. 

That literally can't happen. Everton's points deduction for its second breach was only two points because the two periods overlapped - ie, the second points deduction was much lower because they'd already been punished for two years of the three-year period. Plus, it has been suggested by a number of journalists that even if we breach for 2021-24, because we were in the EFL last season our punishment for the second breach would likely be just a fine.

 

Why do you think our losses are 'much bigger' than the other clubs? Do you have evidence for this?

 

It's not exactly surprising you see no cause for optimism if your perspective is distorted by a complete ignorance of the rules combined with lurid guesswork over the extent of our PSR losses compared to other clubs...

 

 

 

 

[Muzzy_no7]

2 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Could you confirm this is actual knowledge on your part?   
 

in feb ‘22 Ricky signed a four year extension. At that time he was still not playing regularly.  it was thought that the club had exploited his injury issues to get him to renew on a reasonable salary (similar to the standard 80k many were earning) 

Justin’s PL wages will now return to 100-110K unless there’s a change.

 

Ricardo was/is on more than that.

[trooky]

2 hours ago, ClaphamFox said:

 

Why do you think our losses are 'much bigger' than the other clubs? Do you have evidence for this?

 

 

 

 

A quick Google search shows Everton lost £44.7m in 21-22 ; £89m in 22-23 

 

We've lost £92.5m and £89.7m for the same period.

 

So we've lost another £48.5m compared to Everton.

 

If there's any consistency you would expect 8 points for the first breach and maybe 4 points for the 2nd breach of PSR

Edited 10 May 2024 by trooky

[ClaphamFox]

12 minutes ago, trooky said:

A quick Google search shows Everton lost £44.7m in 21-22 ; £89m in 22-23 

 

We've lost £92.5m and £89.7m for the same period.

 

So we've lost another £48.5m compared to Everton.

 

If there's any consistency you would expect 8 points for the first breach and maybe 4 points for the 2nd breach of PSR

You are aware that headline financial losses are different to PSR losses? And also that Forest's PSR loss was greater than Everton's but they received a lower points deduction?

Edited 10 May 2024 by ClaphamFox

[Ric Flair]

3 hours ago, iancognito said:

Didn't the breakdown of our finances reveal that we hadn't got relegation clauses in our wages? Our wages went up not down apparently.

 

Hamza for instance was (reportedly) on 53k a week and he renewed his deal in September. I can't imagine he reduced his wages on renewal and would have had a fat signing fee on that too.

Except we haven't co-operated and are challenging them through every legal process possible. It'll be 8 and you can guarantee the Prem will have recommended even higher. If we look like breaching the next season too we'll be heading for a 2nd deduction, just like Everton this season.

 

Our best hope for survival is other promoted sides like Ipswich +Norwich/WBA etc struggle and others get hit with deductions. Otherwise we'll be looking at needing 48pts to head off the deductions.

It's been reported from multiple sources that the majority of the squad had relegation wage cuts of 30-40%

[Corky]

Not a chance our wage bill went up last season.

[Babylon]

7 hours ago, Dames said:

No we shouldnt but the future is very bleak because of mismanagement and the owners and fans are burying their heads in the sand over winning the second tier. 
 

We are not going to be able to compete for years to come and god knows where its going to land us and the ownership are getting away with it.

 

Any other club would be up in arms about how we handled the psr stuff. 

The rules as they stand end soon, and will be based on wages to turnover. 
 

Weirdly that would put us in a very strong position because we’ve lost the vast majority of high earners now. So wage to turnover would be very low.

 

Next season is a shitter taking the points, but then the worst thing that happens is you go down, with a chance to get the finances under control now and a reset in the parachute payments.

 

Are Everton and Forest up in arms at anyone but the rules? I’ve not seen much of it, so that’s hyperbolic. 

 

[Babylon]

4 hours ago, iancognito said:

Didn't the breakdown of our finances reveal that we hadn't got relegation clauses in our wages? Our wages went up not down apparently.

 

Hamza for instance was (reportedly) on 53k a week and he renewed his deal in September. I can't imagine he reduced his wages on renewal and would have had a fat signing fee on that too.

Except we haven't co-operated and are challenging them through every legal process possible. It'll be 8 and you can guarantee the Prem will have recommended even higher. If we look like breaching the next season too we'll be heading for a 2nd deduction, just like Everton this season.

 

Our best hope for survival is other promoted sides like Ipswich +Norwich/WBA etc struggle and others get hit with deductions. Otherwise we'll be looking at needing 48pts to head off the deductions.

I think you are looking at accounts, which are always a year behind. Our last accounts increased in no small part due to us extending our accounting period by a month, which meant 13 months wages rather than 12 in them. That’s nothing to do with last seasons wages.

[Ric Flair]

41 minutes ago, Babylon said:

The rules as they stand end soon, and will be based on wages to turnover. 
 

Weirdly that would put us in a very strong position because we’ve lost the vast majority of high earners now. So wage to turnover would be very low.

 

Next season is a shitter taking the points, but then the worst thing that happens is you go down, with a chance to get the finances under control now and a reset in the parachute payments.

 

Are Everton and Forest up in arms at anyone but the rules? I’ve not seen much of it, so that’s hyperbolic. 

 

Still think we'll be up against it to only spend 85% of turnover on wages, transfer fees, agent fees etc but hopefully do-able whilst being able to have a crack at being competitive in the PL.

 

Our scouting needs to change direction, we saw signs last summer and it needs to sharpen further and further afield where the value is.

[Babylon]

Just now, Ric Flair said:

Still think we'll be up against it to only spend 85% of turnover on wages, transfer fees, agent fees etc but hopefully do-able whilst being able to have a crack at being competitive in the PL.

 

Our scouting needs to change direction, we saw signs last summer and it needs to sharpen further and further afield where the value is.

All clubs will, but obviously starting from a lower wage ratio allows you a fresh start and room to move. Other clubs are going to have to do a lot of wheeling and dealing. 

[Gamble92]

I find it hilarious how you have something like VAR brought in because of evidence of unconscious bias for bigger teams. Then we get the whole "if it's given it won't be overruled" shit that in affect keeps that in place.

 

Then likewise with PSR you watch as soon as it affects Chelsea we'll suddenly see them vote to change the rules. No way when this affects any bigger club that they keep it.

[Babylon]

4 hours ago, trooky said:

What exactly are the owners getting away with? There are far worse owners around than ours. 

 

They backed Rodgers to try and achieve champions league football and nearly succeeded.

 

It's not the owners fault that the team blew it twice, otherwise the financial situation would be a completely different story.

 

Of course it’s their fault, they chose to overspend. 
 

But if we only over made a profit and and didn’t spend, the chances are we wouldn’t compete either, we would just exist. Imagine Palace, or Everton for eternity. Who the hell wants that.

 

Our game plan was always on a knife edge and needed everything to be done well. A few cock ups on the transfer front or backing a manager a bit too long and things crumble, but as we’ve seen there is also an upside to that knife edge game plan when it goes well. 
 

Whilst there is plenty for them to sort out, I’m also going to admit I liked their game plan for a decade of relative success. 

[Ric Flair]

29 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Of course it’s their fault, they chose to overspend. 
 

But if we only over made a profit and and didn’t spend, the chances are we wouldn’t compete either, we would just exist. Imagine Palace, or Everton for eternity. Who the hell wants that.

 

Our game plan was always on a knife edge and needed everything to be done well. A few cock ups on the transfer front or backing a manager a bit too long and things crumble, but as we’ve seen there is also an upside to that knife edge game plan when it goes well. 
 

Whilst there is plenty for them to sort out, I’m also going to admit I liked their game plan for a decade of relative success. 

" backing a manager a bit too long " was quite possibly because we signed off on an obscene £40-50m contract that entitled him to the remainder in full in the year in which he would be sacked. 

 

If that is what's happened it's not just a cock up but one of the most reckless and atrocious business decisions in football I've ever ever seen. Our compliance with PSR was a disaster waiting to happen.

[Dames]

5 hours ago, trooky said:

What exactly are the owners getting away with? There are far worse owners around than ours. 

 

They backed Rodgers to try and achieve champions league football and nearly succeeded.

 

It's not the owners fault that the team blew it twice, otherwise the financial situation would be a completely different story.

 

This is the kind of head burying i’m on about. 
 

How many assets have we over paid for in fees and wages that have been allowed to walk away for free leaving us with huge losses? This has been happening since 2017 coincidently when Rudkin took on more responsibility.

 

No accountability for 100s of millions lost. 

[Silebyfox_89]

3 hours ago, Muzzy_no7 said:

Justin’s PL wages will now return to 100-110K unless there’s a change.

 

Ricardo was/is on more than that.

Doubt that. 

 

Only Kasper, Vardy and Youri broke the 100k a week wage.

 

I'd thought JJ is more in the 60/80k a week with Riccy P a touch higher at 90K at most.

[Pliskin]

Why can’t we do a dodgy deal to sell Seagrave to ourselves like Chelsea have done? 

[st albans fox]

2 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

Why can’t we do a dodgy deal to sell Seagrave to ourselves like Chelsea have done? 

The Chelsea deal worked for them because of the increase in value in the hotel 

 

it was valued at x a few years ago and they sold it for significantly more which goes down as an increase in their income. It was commercially valued at this price. 
 

If we paid 85m for seagrave and it’s still worth 85m then if we sell it for 85m then we lose 85m from our fixed assets but gain 85m in cash. I don’t think that makes any difference to our psr situation.  We would only benefit if we could sell it for a fair bit more than we paid for it. That’s not happening.   At the moment, Chelsea have still not had their hotel sale signed off by the PL 

[kenny]

4 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

The Chelsea deal worked for them because of the increase in value in the hotel 

 

it was valued at x a few years ago and they sold it for significantly more which goes down as an increase in their income. It was commercially valued at this price. 
 

If we paid 85m for seagrave and it’s still worth 85m then if we sell it for 85m then we lose 85m from our fixed assets but gain 85m in cash. I don’t think that makes any difference to our psr situation.  We would only benefit if we could sell it for a fair bit more than we paid for it. That’s not happening.   At the moment, Chelsea have still not had their hotel sale signed off by the PL 

Let's hope a company called Ping Kower is confused on the value of PL training grounds wants to buy it for £200m now that it has the reputation of being homes to Wales No1 goalie for 4 years and is prepared to rent it to LCFC for £1m for each appearance Danny Ward makes for the first team.

 

If that ends up being a poor investment for PK that isn't any business of the PL.

[Ric Flair]

31 minutes ago, Silebyfox_89 said:

Doubt that. 

 

Only Kasper, Vardy and Youri broke the 100k a week wage.

 

I'd thought JJ is more in the 60/80k a week with Riccy P a touch higher at 90K at most.

Considering our average wage was £94k a week I find that hard to believe.

[st albans fox]

30 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Considering our average wage was £94k a week I find that hard to believe.

Maybe some of the discrepancies are due to signing on fees/loyalty bonus’  being spread across contracts and paid as ‘salaries’ ???

 

I mean paying JJ six figures would be astonishing 

[Muzzy_no7]

1 hour ago, Silebyfox_89 said:

Doubt that. 

 

Only Kasper, Vardy and Youri broke the 100k a week wage.

 

I'd thought JJ is more in the 60/80k a week with Riccy P a touch higher at 90K at most.

Sorry pal but you’re wrong 

 

Maddison, Evans and Barnes were all also on 100K+ in 22/23 

 

 

Edited 10 May 2024 by Muzzy_no7

[Silebyfox_89]

12 minutes ago, Muzzy_no7 said:

Sorry pal but you’re wrong 

 

Maddison, Evans and Barnes were all also on 100K+ in 22/23 

 

 

You're probably right about the above but if JJ was on 6 figures a week then we deserve a points deduction.

[Gamble92]

I just hope Football Manager aren't right that every player gets an 80% increase on promotion 

[Daggers]

This thread has become the most tedious navel gazing on the forum.