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Daggers

General News

By Daggers, in General Chat

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kenny

kenny

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Tommy G said:

It's a lovely headline grab, but beyond that it will be really hard to implement. In my sons primary you can't get a breakfast club place as there aren't enough staff to 'staff it effectively' so theres about 10 pupils per day subscribed in a school of 300, currently £4 a day, make that free and its a ''free for all''

 

I'll be watching closely to see if this ever makes if off the ground. 

They had better hope for a low uptake. If every child cost the government £4 per day, then it will cost them £1.2bn Vs £300m costed. They could just add the difference to the Tory black hole though.

 

Also worth noting that schools in the 12% poorest areas already get free school breakfasts. Just think of all those rich kids now getting fed and it's the opposite of the winter fuel allowance.

Tommy G

Tommy G

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, kenny said:

They had better hope for a low uptake. If every child cost the government £4 per day, then it will cost them £1.2bn Vs £300m costed. They could just add the difference to the Tory black hole though.

 

Also worth noting that schools in the 12% poorest areas already get free school breakfasts. Just think of all those rich kids now getting fed and it's the opposite of the winter fuel allowance.

Yeh it won’t  be means tested - it’s nuts. Most parents will think great, drop the kids off at 8am and they’ll feed them too! When they can do this perfectly themselves, will be a nice offset to the tax hikes, I’ll be rinsing them for every penny - £20 a week it would normally cost so there’s £800 a year based on a 40 week school year. 

leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

Yeh it won’t  be means tested - it’s nuts. Most parents will think great, drop the kids off at 8am and they’ll feed them too! When they can do this perfectly themselves, will be a nice offset to the tax hikes, I’ll be rinsing them for every penny - £20 a week it would normally cost so there’s £800 a year based on a 40 week school year. 

It's splendid when acts of altruism also satisfy singular self-interest, isn't it? Everyone wins. :D

grobyfox1990

grobyfox1990

Posted
Posted
52 minutes ago, kenny said:

They had better hope for a low uptake. If every child cost the government £4 per day, then it will cost them £1.2bn Vs £300m costed. They could just add the difference to the Tory black hole though.

 

Also worth noting that schools in the 12% poorest areas already get free school breakfasts. Just think of all those rich kids now getting fed and it's the opposite of the winter fuel allowance.

How would it cost £4 a day? Not disputing that but don’t we outsource the care of the kids we’ve solely decided to birth to people in return for low wages.

Slice of toast and some cereal on top will be pennies. 
Rather kids get freebies than the O65s who’ve had it all already 

Tommy G

Tommy G

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

It's splendid when acts of altruism also satisfy singular self-interest, isn't it? Everyone wins. :D

Absolutely - with that £800 I could probably get a new suit and a pair of glasses 

Tommy G

Tommy G

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, grobyfox1990 said:

How would it cost £4 a day? Not disputing that but don’t we outsource the care of the kids we’ve solely decided to birth to people in return for low wages.

Slice of toast and some cereal on top will be pennies. 
Rather kids get freebies than the O65s who’ve had it all already 

It’s currently charged at £4 for about an hour, it’s not the cost of the breakfast it’s the cost of kids to staff ratios that will be the actual cost here, which is quite obvious. 
 

Imagine a couple of hundred kids- associated costs as follows - cereal, toast, staff wages, employers NI, energy costs, cost of material to keep said kids occupied etc etc. 

 

 

  • Like 2
grobyfox1990

grobyfox1990

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Tommy G said:

It’s currently charged at £4 for about an hour, it’s not the cost of the breakfast it’s the cost of kids to staff ratios that will be the actual cost here, which is quite obvious. 
 

Imagine a couple of hundred kids- associated costs as follows - cereal, toast, staff wages, employers NI, energy costs, cost of material to keep said kids occupied etc etc. 

 

 

Yeh that’s why I led with the outsource of care point. Don’t we pay TAs and teachers f all. Hence you get all the deluded admin working parents moaning when teachers, people doing a real skilled job, go on strike. 
Taking out staff costs, energy costs will surely be de minimis/already in place for an extra hour or if the school kitchen is already open for staff entry? Cost of materials (do you mean toys etc) isn’t variable?? 
Not adding up for me but I don’t run a school

Tommy G

Tommy G

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Yeh that’s why I led with the outsource of care point. Don’t we pay TAs and teachers f all. Hence you get all the deluded admin working parents moaning when teachers, people doing a real skilled job, go on strike. 
Taking out staff costs, energy costs will surely be de minimis/already in place for an extra hour or if the school kitchen is already open for staff entry? Cost of materials (do you mean toys etc) isn’t variable?? 
Not adding up for me but I don’t run a school

Your first point is a bit jumbled - teachers have just had a 5.5% pay increase and the median pay for teachers is now £49k - if that means they are paid f all then that’s a matter of opinion. 
 

I don’t think every single parent is an admin worker, and that then withdraws your right to complain about strikes lol

 

So are you saying you think it will cost more or less than £4 an hour per pupil? I’m not sure what point you’re making. 

Edited by Tommy G
kenny

kenny

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Yeh that’s why I led with the outsource of care point. Don’t we pay TAs and teachers f all. Hence you get all the deluded admin working parents moaning when teachers, people doing a real skilled job, go on strike. 
Taking out staff costs, energy costs will surely be de minimis/already in place for an extra hour or if the school kitchen is already open for staff entry? Cost of materials (do you mean toys etc) isn’t variable?? 
Not adding up for me but I don’t run a school

You also now need to add in all the @Tommy G not paying their £4 to the schools for the existing breakfast clubs. So it will probably cost even more.

  • Haha 1
leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

Absolutely - with that £800 I could probably get a new suit and a pair of glasses 

Or if you're wanting something more long term, frees up investment in a fusion/space mining company. It'll take a while to pay off, but the returns will be... well, astronomical. :)

 

NB. Isn't eight ton for a suit and glasses a little small beer for your taste? :ph34r:

Tommy G

Tommy G

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

Or if you're wanting something more long term, frees up investment in a fusion/space mining company. It'll take a while to pay off, but the returns will be... well, astronomical. :)

 

NB. Isn't eight ton for a suit and glasses a little small beer for your taste? :ph34r:

My original point goes back to it should be means tested, be as sarcastic as you like, I just don’t think this policy (another one) is thought through well at all. 
 

Feed the kids! Great idea, let’s spin this out in the media ahead of the budget. It’s should distract everyone from this last weeks PR disaster and the upcoming budget. If you read carefully it’s only being piloted in a selection of schools this year. 

leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

My original point goes back to it should be means tested, be as sarcastic as you like, I just don’t think this policy (another one) is thought through well at all. 
 

Feed the kids! Great idea, let’s spin this out in the media ahead of the budget. It’s should distract everyone from this last weeks PR disaster and the upcoming budget. If you read carefully it’s only being piloted in a selection of schools this year. 

FWIW I agree that it should be means-tested, but I'm glad that they're getting the idea out there and it's a step forward IMO.

 

Not actually being all that sarcastic wrt the investment options, AFAIC such ventures either succeed and you make bank or they don't and no-ones money ends up worth much in short order. Worth a long-term punt.

grobyfox1990

grobyfox1990

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Tommy G said:

Your first point is a bit jumbled - teachers have just had a 5.5% pay increase and the median pay for teachers is now £49k - if that means they are paid f all then that’s a matter of opinion. 
 

I don’t think every single parent is an admin worker, and that then withdraws your right to complain about strikes lol

 

So are you saying you think it will cost more or less than £4 an hour per pupil? I’m not sure what point you’re making. 

£49k is Jack sh*t. We pay grads c.£45k starting salary to produce some spreadsheets that will be checked numerous times up the chain before final production. NQ lawyers are starting on 6 figures at any reputable firm to do the same. £49k to look after your kids is contextually and objectively absolute peanuts LOL. 
If you’re an admin pen pusher you have no right to complain about people doing actual skilled labour. Imo ofc 

Im saying I can’t believe it’d cost £4 per pupil, unless you’re pushing fixed and already present variable costs onto the cost per pupil for this scheme. All with the disclaimer that I don’t run a school, so could be v wrong! 

Trav Le Bleu

Trav Le Bleu

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, kenny said:

They had better hope for a low uptake. If every child cost the government £4 per day, then it will cost them £1.2bn Vs £300m costed. They could just add the difference to the Tory black hole though.

 

Also worth noting that schools in the 12% poorest areas already get free school breakfasts. Just think of all those rich kids now getting fed and it's the opposite of the winter fuel allowance.

In my experience, if there's one thing rich people love, it's a freebie!

  • Haha 1
Zear0

Zear0

Posted
Posted

It's something that needs sorting if we're to actually get the economy going to the best of it's ability.  I have two kids in wrap around care and it costs £400 p/m, I've no alternative and it's just a parent tax.  Granted I don't really mind as I accept it as a fact of life and at least it's putting someone UK based in a job and it's all thrown back into the pot rather than sucked out via some US multinational.  I'm in favour of it being a means tested benefit to get the most amount of people back in the work pool, kids from more deprived backgrounds actually getting fed (f**k the two-child limit) and making kids attending school more.  It is bizarre that they'd offer the carrot of free breakfast club (caveat it's for a select few schools) whilst whacking the WFA.  I'm all in favour of means testing every benefit so apply some consistency. 

Zear0

Zear0

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Miquel The Work Geordie said:

 

Should've invested in these

jls-condoms.jpg

Them losing to Alexandre effing Burke is a bigger crime than the fees IMHO. 

foxile5

foxile5

Posted
Posted
58 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

£49k is Jack sh*t. We pay grads c.£45k starting salary to produce some spreadsheets that will be checked numerous times up the chain before final production. NQ lawyers are starting on 6 figures at any reputable firm to do the same. £49k to look after your kids is contextually and objectively absolute peanuts LOL. 
If you’re an admin pen pusher you have no right to complain about people doing actual skilled labour. Imo ofc 

Im saying I can’t believe it’d cost £4 per pupil, unless you’re pushing fixed and already present variable costs onto the cost per pupil for this scheme. All with the disclaimer that I don’t run a school, so could be v wrong! 

It takes years to get to 49k. A year per jump on the main scale then two years per jump on Upper Pay Scale. 

 

Probably ten years work to get there.

RobHawk

RobHawk

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, Tommy G said:

It's a lovely headline grab, but beyond that it will be really hard to implement. In my sons primary you can't get a breakfast club place as there aren't enough staff to 'staff it effectively' so theres about 10 pupils per day subscribed in a school of 300, currently £4 a day, make that free and its a ''free for all''

 

I'll be watching closely to see if this ever makes if off the ground. 

Interestingly in my kids primary in Wales, under a labour government, breakfast club is open to all and is already free. Loads of parents use it, we are in the position ATM where we don't have to most of the time but the kids sometimes enjoy going early to hang out with their friends. 

 

From what I can tell, breakfast is toast, fruit or yoghurtand I have to say it seems to work really well.

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