Happy St Georges Day

[grobyfox1990]

7 minutes ago, bovril said:

I think it's difficult to explain tradition and belief to someone from England, but perhaps imagine church and nation as a big NHS, and the saints as like Captain Tom. 

That's a great post. Still think religious thinking, not religion itself, courses through British life. Think it will take the next generation for that to wash away. Things like assisted dying and normalisation of death, legalisation of drugs, less focus on family life and more on personal ambition will come through. Dunno if that's good or bad tbf, maybe a bit of both

[Spudulike]

A good historical explanation (not mine) of the origins of St George....

 

The idea that St. George was Palestinian or Turkish stems from modern misinterpretations or anachronistic projections onto his historical context. St. George, a Christian martyr venerated as a saint, was born around 280 CE in Cappadocia, a region in what is now modern-day Turkey, then part of the Roman Empire. His father was likely a Roman soldier, and his mother was from Lydda (now Lod, Israel), a town in the Roman province of Judea.

Calling him "Palestinian" or "Turkish" is misleading because these national identities did not exist in the 3rd century. The term "Palestinian" today refers to the modern Arab population of the region, which is distinct from the multi-ethnic Roman Judea of George's time, populated by Jews, Romans, Greeks, and others. Similarly, "Turkish" refers to the Turkic peoples who arrived in Anatolia centuries later, long after George's era.

Primary sources, like the 4th-century accounts of his martyrdom, describe George as a Roman soldier of Greek or Cappadocian descent, executed in Nicomedia (modern Izmit, Turkey) around 303 CE for refusing to renounce Christianity. His connection to Lydda comes from his mother’s origin and his later association with the town, where a church was built in his honor. These sources don't align with modern ethnic or national labels like "Palestinian" or "Turkish."

The fallacy likely arises from conflating ancient geography with modern political boundaries or from cultural traditions claiming George as a local hero in various regions. For example, Palestinian Christians venerate him due to his Lydda connection, and Turkey claims him as a figure from Cappadocia. However, these are retrospective associations, not historical facts about his identity.

In short, St. George was a Roman citizen of likely Greek or Cappadocian background, and applying modern labels like "Palestinian" or "Turkish" to him is anachronistic and inaccurate.

[Foxdiamond]

2 hours ago, boots60 said:

Every April 23rd I love to celebrate the death of a man born in Turkey that has never been to England.

Perhaps opt for St Edmund November 20th

[bovril]

1 minute ago, Foxdiamond said:

Perhaps opt for St Edmund November 20th

Our true patron saint. 

[when_you're_smiling]

10 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

A good historical explanation (not mine) of the origins of St George....

 

The idea that St. George was Palestinian or Turkish stems from modern misinterpretations or anachronistic projections onto his historical context. St. George, a Christian martyr venerated as a saint, was born around 280 CE in Cappadocia, a region in what is now modern-day Turkey, then part of the Roman Empire. His father was likely a Roman soldier, and his mother was from Lydda (now Lod, Israel), a town in the Roman province of Judea.

Calling him "Palestinian" or "Turkish" is misleading because these national identities did not exist in the 3rd century. The term "Palestinian" today refers to the modern Arab population of the region, which is distinct from the multi-ethnic Roman Judea of George's time, populated by Jews, Romans, Greeks, and others. Similarly, "Turkish" refers to the Turkic peoples who arrived in Anatolia centuries later, long after George's era.

Primary sources, like the 4th-century accounts of his martyrdom, describe George as a Roman soldier of Greek or Cappadocian descent, executed in Nicomedia (modern Izmit, Turkey) around 303 CE for refusing to renounce Christianity. His connection to Lydda comes from his mother’s origin and his later association with the town, where a church was built in his honor. These sources don't align with modern ethnic or national labels like "Palestinian" or "Turkish."

The fallacy likely arises from conflating ancient geography with modern political boundaries or from cultural traditions claiming George as a local hero in various regions. For example, Palestinian Christians venerate him due to his Lydda connection, and Turkey claims him as a figure from Cappadocia. However, these are retrospective associations, not historical facts about his identity.

In short, St. George was a Roman citizen of likely Greek or Cappadocian background, and applying modern labels like "Palestinian" or "Turkish" to him is anachronistic and inaccurate.

‘Anachronistic and inaccurate ’……..

 

Now do a proper history of the dragon. 😉

[Foxdiamond]

1 minute ago, bovril said:

Our true patron saint. 

At least St George is not a new fangled idea put forward by a modern pressure group. Put the blame on Edward the Third I believe 

[bovril]

Just now, Foxdiamond said:

At least St George is not a new fangled idea put forward by a modern pressure group. Put the blame on Edward the Third I believe 

I always thought it was the period of Henry V and Agincourt when St George was truly promoted as patron saint but it may have been Edward III, lots of chivalric stuff goes back to him. I know that Richard II, who succeeded Ed III, really venerated Edmund. 

[Foxdiamond]

1 minute ago, bovril said:

I always thought it was the period of Henry V and Agincourt when St George was truly promoted as patron saint but it may have been Edward III, lots of chivalric stuff goes back to him. I know that Richard II, who succeeded Ed III, really venerated Edmund. 

You may well be correct. I think Edward III started the ball rolling in George's favour.

[Leicesterpool]

To be fair St Davids Day gets forgot about... wouldn't be able to tell you the date unless i google it.

Edited 23 April by Leicesterpool

[Leicesterpool]

2 hours ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

St George's day should be a bank holiday. 

 

 

Seem to recall Sir Keir Starmer said he would do this... yeah once again another broken promise. Why break habit of a lifetime lol.

[Sampson]

40 minutes ago, Leicesterpool said:

Seem to recall Sir Keir Starmer said he would do this... yeah once again another broken promise. Why break habit of a lifetime lol.

Pretty sure that was Corbyn not Starmer tbf but may be wrong. 

[ramboacdc]

26 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Pretty sure that was Corbyn not Starmer tbf but may be wrong. 

It was Corbyn. It was a policy to throw at the wall in the hope to win votes. Same as when Richi promised National Service to get a few more from the right on his side. 

Either way. I am prepared for this thread. 

[ealingfox]

Happy Tedious Low IQ Discourse Day!

 

#makeitabankholiday

[Footballwipe]

1 hour ago, Leicesterpool said:

Seem to recall Sir Keir Starmer said he would do this... yeah once again another broken promise. Why break habit of a lifetime lol.

 have you got anything constructive to say in this thread? Seems as though you're assuming right wing things and then getting your politicians mixed up to fit your narrative.

[Vacamion]

 

Don't want to make you all angry but Scottish Government employees, including my wife, the Git, get a paid holiday every year for St Andrews Day.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 23 April by Vacamion

[bovril]

3 minutes ago, Vacamion said:

 

Don't want to make you all angry but Scottish Government employees, including my wife, the Git, get a paid holiday every year for St Andrews Day.

 

 

 

 

 

even Presbyterians celebrate Saints' days more than we do  

[RoboFox]

Have you seen a dragon in the Oxfordshire area lately? 

 

Thought not. This dickhead clearly killed the last one. 

 

 

 

Edited 23 April by RoboFox

[FoyleFox]

3 hours ago, Vacamion said:

 

Don't want to make you all angry but Scottish Government employees, including my wife, the Git, get a paid holiday every year for St Andrews Day.

 

 

 

 

 

St Patrick's Day is an official Bank Holiday in NI.

We did very well on BH days in NI, you get all the standard UK one's, plus St Patrick's and a few ROI ones.

 

St George's Day, or as I call it, Grandad's birthday. Who was born in England, a WW1 veteran, and I'm happy to celebrate him, he was incidentally called George.

[Leicesterpool]

Bank Holiday would be a nice touch, even if it's just a day for the English. Then give bank holidays for St Andrews Day for Scottish and ST David Day's for the Welsh, each nation get one extra day off. I found ironic how we got a coronation bank holiday and royal wedding bank holiday.  

[Nalis]

Happy St Georges Day! 

 

As an outsider it baffles me how it seems to be the only national day in the world that has a degree of minor self embarrassment to celebrate for some reason.

[bovril]

57 minutes ago, Nalis said:

Happy St Georges Day! 

 

As an outsider it baffles me how it seems to be the only national day in the world that has a degree of minor self embarrassment to celebrate for some reason.

There have long been strains of oikophobia and xenophilia in some quarters of English polite society, as well as an aversion to tradition, especially religious tradition. A lot of that is down to specific historical events and processes. That's been added to in recent years by a greater unease around the role of majority national identity in an increasingly multi-ethnic country. 

 

You're right it's baffling to outsiders. My partner is Bulgarian so celebrates St George's Day (13 days later). I remember the first year we lived here her coming back from work on April 23rd and describing to me the office 'discourse' around St George like she was a 19th century English explorer recounting some utterly esoteric and mystic traditions of a just-discovered tribe in the Congo. 

Edited 23 April by bovril

[Voll Blau]

3 hours ago, Leicesterpool said:

Bank Holiday would be a nice touch, even if it's just a day for the English. Then give bank holidays for St Andrews Day for Scottish and ST David Day's for the Welsh, each nation get one extra day off. I found ironic how we got a coronation bank holiday and royal wedding bank holiday.  

St David's Day isn't a bank holiday in Wales. Maybe we'd get today off if we all stopped being so whiny about it.

 

My daughter was asked to wear red and white for her nursery to mark today, by the way. Now she's been thrown in jail for saying she's English.

[Nalis]

9 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

St David's Day isn't a bank holiday in Wales. Maybe we'd get today off if we all stopped being so whiny about it.

 

My daughter was asked to wear red and white for her nursery to mark today, by the way. Now she's been thrown in jail for saying she's English.

These days....

[Fox92]

Shakespeare's birthday on the same day. That deserves more of a celebration.

[Dr Marco]

Anywhere...in Albion