Sean Dyche

[trooky]

7 hours ago, HankMarvin said:

Geographically yes, but Blackburn also have spent the last 13 years in the championship and league one, not quite as cut throat as bedding in youngsters in the prem trying to avoid relegation.

Burnley is also in a catchment area with Manchester United and Liverpool and Leeds.

Instead of thinking, Dyche was the reason why they didn’t get players, maybe just maybe being in the prem for 7 odd years back to back attracted more young kids to the club. Under Dyche they went from nearly falling out of academy grading level 3 to working towards elite status from 2016 to 2020

Yes totally agree,  I live not too far away in West Yorkshire. Burnley was one off the worst academies in the area at the time, far behind Blackburn and would have been one of the last choices for decent academy prospects. 

 

But what was Dyche record like at Everton for promoting youth, because they have one of the best academies in the region. 

Edited 13 May 2025 by trooky

[MaidstoneFox]

Dyche will also be a lot more expensive than other candidates, demand a long contract and be expensive to get rid of.

[moore_94]

Usually had one of, if not, the oldest squad in the Prem didn’t he?

 

We need to be going towards one of the youngest

[Crinklyfox]

It doesn't matter to our owners if he is a good fit for our set up, if the fans will take to his brand of football, or any other niceties.  This is all about money.  There is a lot more of it in the PL than the Championship so the owners will go for whomsoever they think is most likely to get us promoted immediately, and worry about everything else later.

[AjcW]

6 minutes ago, Crinklyfox said:

It doesn't matter to our owners if he is a good fit for our set up, if the fans will take to his brand of football, or any other niceties.  This is all about money.  There is a lot more of it in the PL than the Championship so the owners will go for whomsoever they think is most likely to get us promoted immediately, and worry about everything else later.

I half agree and half don't.

 

I think the threat level this time is higher, if we don't go straight back up this time then we hand over about £100m in share capital to a vampire bank, so yes, we need to go up.

 

However last time had similar threats, only with less capital at risk, and they hired a complete unknown who had 'failed' in his only previous managerial role. 

[indierich06]

11 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

I'd multi quoted a few posters on here that were fairly well balanced on Dyche and I was going to saying something similar but I've had to untick them as @CosbehFox has absolutely smoked everything.

 

There's very little basis for Sean Dyche at this juncture, not if we want the systematic change that many of us call for, some of the same people who are sympathetic to Sean Dyche. Now, much of that change is outside of just the managers remit and should we get it, the said new men and women ought not to want Sean Dyche so that tells you everything.

 

We have a golden generation of academy players, we've played the long game of our prowess over the last decade as the most successful midlands team this century and we're seeing that with the talent we have developed, not because we invested millions on such players aged 14-17 but recruiting them at a much younger age as we became the trusted club to come to as we were becoming the best. Having the vision to build the most incredible facilities, a decent record of producing Chilwell, Barnes, KDH and a few others and winning trophies at first team level for the size of this club which defies modern football.

 

Sadly this is happening at a time when our club is declining but now more than ever we need to have the bravery to play them. Maybe you can't play as many when fighting for your lives in the PL but by the same token had we not generated over £120m in player sales on Chilwell, Barnes and KDH then this club would be in even more of a dire financial mess than it currently is. We simply have to deliver on what we've built. Buying low and selling high is literally the only way a club like us right now prospers and we have an opportunity of not needing to buy as many new players if we have the faith in using Nelson, Aluko, Alves, Page, Monga, Evans et al. There's others coming too, dismiss the importance of this at your peril and be complicit in our further demise. 

 

I've zero tolerance for giving managers the benefit of the doubt on this topic either. Saying Dyche has never had such a group of academy players at his disposal, I just can't bare another manager who phones it in on bringing through academy players.

 

Cooper had a supposed track record of bringing through academy players and then opted to play defensive midfielders in the #10 role in pre-season rather than use it as an exercise to test Alves with our strongest first team players around him. Van Nistelrooy has been equally as bad, even now despite relegation and this farcical notion of looking to the future he's favouring players who won't be here and limited aging players over starting Monga and Evans. I have no interest in more bull shit and it's high time the mandate from the new manager was prioritise bringing through academy players or instant dismissal. 

 

If we do the above then it's absolutely wild to consider Sean Dyche would be the standout candidate but here we are.

 

 

This is all well and good mate, but there is no indication whatsoever that it's a priority for the board - in fact I'm sure they view a few PSR boosting tribunal payments as good enough. 

 

The cynic in me thinks that the only reason the likes of Evans and Monga are getting minutes now is that they're both off in the summer and the club are trying to boost the payments they'll get now that we're already down.  

 

If the club came out and said that this was the clear direction they wanted to take - promote from within, build a young team - then Dyche would be the wrong manager for that, but if their goal is promotion at all costs - which I suspect it is - then his resume as a championship manager is better than a lot of the other names we've been linked with. 

 

I'd love us to go heavy on youth, but it's not going to happen with this board and this ownership. 

[indierich06]

42 minutes ago, trooky said:

Yes totally agree,  I live not too far away in West Yorkshire. Burnley was one off the worst academies in the area at the time, far behind Blackburn and would have been one of the last choices for decent academy prospects. 

 

But what was Dyche record like at Everton for promoting youth, because they have one of the best academies in the region. 

I think they had an academy transfer between 2018-2020, which seriously hampered them, but at the same time - I don't really blame him if he didn't bring through any prospects there when his remit will have been to do whatever he could to keep them up. 

 

I don't think he's ever really been at a club where he either a) had youth prospects worth promoting or b) had the time needed to promote and blood youth players. 

[ian__marshall]

26 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I don't disagree with you with some of what Dyche " could " do here but I'll go back to my point about systematic change. That's bigger than any manager, but I simply cannot accept nothing changes off the field in that department and if Dyche is appointed and everything else remains the same, then what? If we did get some serious change and we'd appointed Dyche already, is that also an aligned fit? 

 

It just feels this is a huge succession of decisions required with far too many unknowns. The same could obviously be said about a manager with a philosophy for bringing through youth but everything else around them stays the same, it's perspective and perhaps I'm ignorant to the principles I identify with for my football club. Bottom line I want major change, I'm a massive hypocrite though in what that looks like.

Agree 100% with everything you say but as you well know there's underlying issues which go far beyond the manager. 

 

My concern is that until these are addressed we simply need to keep our head above water for the good of the club. As much I hate the PL, sadly for the club to be stable we need to return to the top league and that has to be our number one priority above all else. 

 

Like yourself I'd much prefer a manager who could perform a systematic review and instill a mid to long term plan, but let's be very honest that can't/won't happen whilst we have this current SLT in place. Therefore even if we went down the young, forward thinking, dynamic manager approach, just like Enzo they'd be here for one season  then chase the bright lights of stardom elsewhere. We'd then be back to square one having this conversation again in a years time as the board have zero idea when it comes to succession planning. 

 

As you know this all went wrong under Rodgers. The like of Tavares, Braybrooke, Alves, and Nyoni should have all been given a pathway to the 1st team. Instead we've set the precedent that progression is difficult to achieve with the club, and consequently this group of exceptional youngsters coming through are unsure whether their futures are best served by staying here. 

[Skidmark]

Bit more traction about this picking up. 

[slymunn]

1 hour ago, trooky said:

Yes totally agree,  I live not too far away in West Yorkshire. Burnley was one off the worst academies in the area at the time, far behind Blackburn and would have been one of the last choices for decent academy prospects. 

 

But what was Dyche record like at Everton for promoting youth, because they have one of the best academies in the region. 

Total minutes from Everton last season. Its better than what I thought actually (I couldn't fit all the squad on as I'm on the work computer!)

 

Edited 13 May 2025 by slymunn

[Tommy Fresh]

59 minutes ago, indierich06 said:

This is all well and good mate, but there is no indication whatsoever that it's a priority for the board - in fact I'm sure they view a few PSR boosting tribunal payments as good enough. 

 

The cynic in me thinks that the only reason the likes of Evans and Monga are getting minutes now is that they're both off in the summer and the club are trying to boost the payments they'll get now that we're already down.  

 

If the club came out and said that this was the clear direction they wanted to take - promote from within, build a young team - then Dyche would be the wrong manager for that, but if their goal is promotion at all costs - which I suspect it is - then his resume as a championship manager is better than a lot of the other names we've been linked with. 

 

I'd love us to go heavy on youth, but it's not going to happen with this board and this ownership. 

Tribunal payments we probably won't get for a while though and the fees we're looking at from a tribunal probably aren't worth waiting for.

[indierich06]

2 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

Tribunal payments we probably won't get for a while though and the fees we're looking at from a tribunal probably aren't worth waiting for.

Not saying it's the right approach, just putting myself in Rudkin's shoes. I think if the club get £1m from tribunal for the likes of Trey Nyoni, they will see that as a result. As always, until we get rid of these wasters at board level - or bring in a DOF who can give us some kind of actual footballing strategy - it doesn't matter who manages us, there's no clear direction of travel apart from 'try and win games, try to get promoted, try to stay up'.

[murphy]

22 minutes ago, ian__marshall said:

As you know this all went wrong under Rodgers. The like of Tavares, Braybrooke, Alves, and Nyoni should have all been given a pathway to the 1st team. Instead we've set the precedent that progression is difficult to achieve with the club, and consequently this group of exceptional youngsters coming through are unsure whether their futures are best served by staying here. 

I just don't understand this idea that the club doesn't promote youth.  In this era, we have seen Chilwell, Barnes, KDH, Thomas,  McAteer, Choudhury, Stolarcyk and now actual children in Monga and Evans breaking into the first team.  I have never known so many youth team players breaking through in 45 years of supporting LCFC. 

 

Of the players you mentioned, Nyoni was poached and Braybrooke and Alves had long term injuries, are now on loan and likely to be in the next draft of academy graduates along with Nelson and the two schoolboys, if we can keep them. 

 

Genuinely baffles me how we seem to have collectively come the conclusion that the club doesn't promote youth despite all the evidence to the contrary. 

[kingfox]

9 hours ago, CosbehFox said:

Burnley who have minimal record thanks to Dyche’s ignorance on youth products 

🤣

 

Do some research mate. 
 

The majority of Burnley’s academy products from Dyche’s era ended up in League 1, League 2 and National Leagues. Some even ended up in Ireland and Australia. 
 

That just indicates how shit Burnley’s academy was during that period, hence why hardly any broke through because they simply weren’t Premier League or Championship standard. 
 

All Dyche’s fault though 🤣

[CosbehFox]

10 minutes ago, kingfox said:

🤣

 

Do some research mate. 
 

The majority of Burnley’s academy products from Dyche’s era ended up in League 1, League 2 and National Leagues. Some even ended up in Ireland and Australia. 
 

That just indicates how shit Burnley’s academy was during that period, hence why hardly any broke through because they simply weren’t Premier League or Championship standard. 
 

All Dyche’s fault though 🤣

It's shit because the first team manager had no interest in it. The end. Yet other clubs of a similar size in the area have produced players. 

Edited 13 May 2025 by CosbehFox

[kingfox]

1 minute ago, CosbehFox said:

It's shit because the first team manager had no interest in it. The end. Yet other clubs of a similar size in the area have produced players. 

It’s shit because their academy products simply weren’t good enough, hence why they ended up in League 1, League 2, National League, Ireland and Australia.

 

The end. 

[brookfox]

If Rogers > Smith > Enzo > Cooper > RvN > Dyche doesn’t tell us we have no clear footballing blueprint (I’m looking at you DoF) then nothing will!

[Finnegan]

Sean Dyche is a strange manager. He's sort of stuck in a paradoxical loop. 

 

He's one of the best in the country at what he's good at, so naturally he rises towards the top of the football pyramid and gets his shot at Premier League football. 

 

He's now got himself a reputation and an ambition that's going to price him out of the reach of most Football League clubs and you can't blame him for wanting Premier League gigs. 

 

But the problem is that what he's good at is min-maxing a small, provincial, Football League budget and making it competitive. The clubs he manages are always going to have a ceiling because of his own limitations, that's why he thrives at clubs that already have a very low one. He's efficient at working within those confines. If he rocked up at somewhere like Preston tomorrow, it wouldn't surprise me to see them promoted in a season or two. 

 

But Preston can't afford him, we can. 

 

The problem for us is that our financial ills are short term, our ceiling is temporary. We know where our actual ceiling is, we comfortably have the raw materials to be a Best of the Rest club, top of the Other 14. Whilst we've got no divine right to be there and the competition has heated up, we also know without doubt that's attainable for us and at very least we should be thinking about top flight mid table and a push for Conference League. 

 

We might have our hands tied somewhat now (albeit those restraints loosen every year we spend conservatively) but our commercial income, the backing of our owners and our match day revenue provides Many Pound Notes™. 

 

Someone earlier in the thread made the point that Dyche will tank the value of our squad, they're not wrong. I don't doubt he'd spend a small budget efficiently if we don't have much to rebuild with this summer but he'd also sign a lot of players with no resellable value and extremely limited potential to play any other football than Sean Dyche football which has extremely limited ceiling in the Premier League. 

 

Whilst we cannot be arrogant and complacent, we also cannot afford to lack any ambition at all. Last time we dropped to this level we picked up Fatawu and Hermansen, assets we'll almost certainly profit from. Can anyone say with a straight face they think Dyche would have approved those signings? No, he'll sign a bunch of 30 year old, "safe" journeymen with limited technical ability and no resale value and he'll kill the long term value of the squad. Something that could take generations to recover. You think Cooper was bad for Ayew and BDCR? They've got Dyche written all over them.

 

The two absolutely constant arguments for Dyche are that the squad needs an overhaul of character and that the fans want more uncomplicated football. That's fine, I don't fundamentally disagree, we can aspire for those things. We should. 

 

But there are tens of thousands of managers / head coaches plying their trade in the world, if you think Sean Dyche is the only one that doesn't play Tiki Taka and does value hard working footballers, I've got a bridge to sell you. 

 

And no, I'm not a snob, I don't care if our football isn't like watching Barcelona and I don't care if we don't sign some Football Hipster, textbook German vogue head coach. But I DO want to be entertained at least to some degree when I watch Leicester and frankly the thought of watching a Dyche managed City makes me want to self harm. 

 

[dsr-burnley]

16 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

It's [deleted] because the first team manager had no interest in it. The end. Yet other clubs of a similar size in the area have produced players. 

The academy was category 3 and in a mess (possibly special measures) when Dyche turned up, and the training ground was in an awful state.  The 2009-10 PL windfall had been wasted.  When Dyche won promotion his demand was that the club should spend a large chunk of the extra money (about £40m per year in those days) on the training ground to build for the future.  

 

This is the youth team and under 21 squad for 2014-15.  Who should Dyche have put in the team?

 

https://www.burnleyexpress.net/sport/football/burnley-welcomes-new-scholars-2636557

[MattFox]

I’m sure all the fans that quickly got on Enzo’s back at the first sign of a few back passes will be as critical of Dycheys football

[dsr-burnley]

13 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Whilst we cannot be arrogant and complacent, we also cannot afford to lack any ambition at all. Last time we dropped to this level we picked up Fatawu and Hermansen, assets we'll almost certainly profit from. Can anyone say with a straight face they think Dyche would have approved those signings? No, he'll sign a bunch of 30 year old, "safe" journeymen with limited technical ability and no resale value and he'll kill the long term value of the squad. Something that could take generations to recover. You think Cooper was bad for Ayew and BDCR? They've got Dyche written all over them.

 

He didn't at Burnley.  At the end of his last PL season (after several years of restricted transfer dealings) the big sales were Nathan Collins (21), Dwight McNeil (25), Maxwell Cornet (24), and Nick Pope (30, but a goalkeeper).  Also Ben Mee and James Tarkowski left, they were both free because out of contract, but they had been at the club 11 years and 6 years respectively and couldn't help getting older.  When he signed players of limited technical ability at Burnley, it was because we couldn't afford better.

 

When we did sign quality (Stephen Defour), we qualified for Europe.

 

Don't worry about the quality of football in the Championship.  There is no way to play un-entertaining football when you're scoring goals and winning.

[MattFox]

33 minutes ago, brookfox said:

If Rogers > Smith > Enzo > Cooper > RvN > Dyche doesn’t tell us we have no clear footballing blueprint (I’m looking at you DoF) then nothing will!

Smith and Cooper were Rudkin appointments (So would Dyche)

 

Enzo and RvN (Top/Agent Led)

 

Rodgers was the only one all were aligned on

[RoboFox]

Remember when he was at Burnley and we pumped them in the nPower and he started crying and said it was because of "many, many pound notes"? 

[CosbehFox]

19 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

The academy was category 3 and in a mess (possibly special measures) when Dyche turned up, and the training ground was in an awful state.  The 2009-10 PL windfall had been wasted.  When Dyche won promotion his demand was that the club should spend a large chunk of the extra money (about £40m per year in those days) on the training ground to build for the future.  

 

This is the youth team and under 21 squad for 2014-15.  Who should Dyche have put in the team?

 

https://www.burnleyexpress.net/sport/football/burnley-welcomes-new-scholars-2636557

Kind of the point isn't it? Dyche comes in, academy improves, still no one coming through. Still to this day as well. 

 

I am bored of the debate anyway. 

Edited 13 May 2025 by CosbehFox

[Finnegan]

4 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

When we did sign quality (Stephen Defour)

 

Firstly, I wouldn't describe Steven Defour as profoundly technically fantastic, secondly you paid nearly ten million and he left on a free transfer three years later. 

 

I think that's a pretty ****ing good example of what I'm talking about.