Cifuentes OUT

[Paninistickers]

2 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

The alternatives are Vic, Faes on the left or Aluko. Aluko comes with massive pressure. The rest are dross.

Ive stuck up for Faes so much over the years. 

 

It's simply incorrect he's 'dross'.. Imperfect. Surely even the many rabid haters of Faes can see when he's Brought on a sub there is an instant,. immediate improvement. 

 

The ability gap between Wout Faes and Luke Thomas is seismic. 

[cityfanlee23]

There is a lot of hyperbole mixed in with both sides of the argument here, but the vast majority of fans do no expect us to be clear at the top of the table. We just expect us to beat a lot of what's infront of us over 90 minutes with the odd hiccup here and there. 
I made a thread previously you can go back look at it, I claimed Milwall were my dark horse this season. Why did I put Milwall down as a surprise challenger? Alex Neil. He knows how to get teams working for him, he knows how to make average players click as a unit, something Marti absolutely cannot do. 

We have better players than most teams in this division when they are on form, the issue is, the system we have adopted is making it much easier for players to not hit any form. How is Mavididi expected to hit form if he has to turn around and pass it backwards every time he gets the ball? if every time he gets to the by-line there is nobody bombing into the box to receive the cross. 
How can Winks hit form when every pass he makes is 5 yards and sideways, how can Fatawu hit better form if every single match he gets doubled up on and the manager is explicitly instructing players NOT to offer an overlap more often than not (he has to be instructing it at this point)
How can any of our strikers hit form, when the entire system is designed around needlessly passing it around sideways, giving the opposition 20+ passes to reposition themselves into a deep block, so that every time the striker gets the ball, they have their back to goal 25 yards out with no options. 

Good managers like Alex Neil, or even for us, Nigel Pearson know how to get the most out of each player despite them maybe not being the best on paper, Marti cannot do that, he doesn't know how it seems. 

Hassenhuttl kept Southamtpon above water for far longer than they deserved. He didn't do a perfect job and he made many mistakes, but he's a huge upgrade on what we've seen so far. If we want to go all out Urs Fischer would be an instant upgrade. 
Go and watch how Rangers perform tomorrow under Rohl. The intensity, pressing and attacking will be far superior to anything Russel Martin put up. 

[ian__marshall]

30 minutes ago, Fear Of The Fox said:

Imagine having someone like Ange with no strikers and 2 CBs with a combined 10 IQ. What could go wrong? 

Hilder will be having none of that. According to her we have a future Nobel Peace Prize winner in the side 😉 🤣😂🤣

[Gazza M]

30 minutes ago, JimJams said:

But you say that as though that option hasn't been given to Cifuentes.  And if that is the case, then rather than bring in someone new, just drop it from his remit.  You're implying that Marti has been told he has to put these players in the side.  If that's the case, why would that change for someone new?

We dont know what Marti has been given as his remit preseason. I have the feeling he is expected top 6 so hence why he doesn't want to experiment too much. 

 

[wardyfox86]

We were pretty much midtable Championship standard last season.

 

Since then weve lost some (at worst) lower end Prem players in Justin, Bilal and Vardy, replacing them with players (potential aside) have played no higher than Championship standard.

 

That's the reality of where we're at. Marti is our level of manager right now, midtable and uninspiring. Somebody might come in and get a better tune out of them, but they probably won't.

 

Losing away to the likes of Milwall and Hull will be commonplace for a while, unfortunately.

[S1DDO]

Keep, he’s doing the best he can with a load of toss with bad attitudes 

[One Arm Babba]

I don’t think it’s him that’s to fault. At least he’s rolling the dice by throwing attackers on the pitch, problem is we have no centre forwards. Daka is awful and should be euthanised at this stage, Caranza isnt any good, and Ayew is just a headless chicken. That combined with the bad attitude of some of our players that sulk when dropped, shows us what we are… a mid table championship side at best. 

[Gamble92]

18 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

My unpopular opinion on things.

 

The first 1/2 of the Enzo season massively flattered us. I actually thought we would struggle that season. I remember us being dross a lot of the time but a possessed KDH getting us over the line several times, and Mavi had form and Fatawu was mostly unplayable (yet reckless and raw), and a reborn version of Ndidi.  I imagine that season would have panned out very differently if KDH didn't rescue us in the first game vs Cov. 

 

We've been dross since we started to struggle in that Enzo season. The teams that did a number on us were the types doing us over now (Hull, Millwall etc).  Teams had worked us out. We got through by the skin of our teeth and because we had a much, much better team that we do now. The recruitment since Enzo's summer window (which itself had a few questionable choice) has been appalling. Enzo got nothing in that winter window, which i am sure played on his mind for the rest of that season. Then of course Cooper with his hideous recruitment, and RVN who needs no additional comment.

 

Cifuentes had his squad gutted and i presume has been tasked with getting the experienced squad firing again. I think he is the wrong person to be targeting right now. The board have to take responsibility and he will need to be given time and a window of non journeymen players. 

I think you're right in everything you say about Enzo, but it flattered us because of the style of play being found out. We should have got more points than season without doubt. 11 losses, and the manner of some of them were ridiculous for that squad. He made a really big squad seem incredibly small at times. 

 

Marti should absolutely be getting more out of this team. I like him as a character. I think he comes across really well. But this team should be creating way more. We talk about the strikers but the system isn't built for one. They're feeding off nothing. That's on him. The relentless pass out to Fatawu is so predictable. The whole tactic is predictable. 

 

Oh and Faes is miles better than Okoli.

[Chelmofox]

1 minute ago, Paninistickers said:

Ive stuck up for Faes so much over the years. 

 

It's simply incorrect he's 'dross'.. Imperfect. Surely even the many rabid haters of Faes can see when he's Brought on a sub there is an instant,. immediate improvement. 

 

The ability gap between Wout Faes and Luke Thomas is seismic. 

Wout has an attitude problem and he as may vital mistakes in him as Luke. Do you really think he will want to become our 1st choice left back? 

[JimJams]

Just now, Gazza M said:

We dont know what Marti has been given as his remit preseason. I have the feeling he is expected top 6 so hence why he doesn't want to experiment too much. 

Right, but what I'm saying is you implied he was being instructed to play certain players.  If that's the case it wouldn't change for a new manager.  And if they were willing to change it for a new manager, then just change it for the current one.

[Paninistickers]

2 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

I ask this countless times but noone ever answers. What else should he do?

VK, who has fitness levels albeit questionable ability. Aluko who has speed and potential. Faes who has an imperfect ability. Ricky or Hamza next in line. Then, and I mean this, Okoli and Skipp a would be next in line. Then,.if all those were unavailable for selection, I'd consider Luke Thomas.

 

He's basically my eighth choice left back. 

[The Doctor]

5 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

I ask this countless times but noone ever answers. What else should he do?

change the system? if your options at full back are shit, try something else. He does it when we're chasing a game but never seems to want to acknowledge that we're chasing the game because of the players he took off to start chasing it

[Gazza M]

Just now, JimJams said:

Right, but what I'm saying is you implied he was being instructed to play certain players.  If that's the case it wouldn't change for a new manager.  And if they were willing to change it for a new manager, then just change it for the current one.

No, I dont think obliged to play certain people. Just goes with experience as seen as less of a risk and best chance of getting a result. If they would change their goals, then no problem with Marti. 

[whoareyaaa]

5 minutes ago, cityfanlee23 said:

There is a lot of hyperbole mixed in with both sides of the argument here, but the vast majority of fans do no expect us to be clear at the top of the table. We just expect us to beat a lot of what's infront of us over 90 minutes with the odd hiccup here and there. 
I made a thread previously you can go back look at it, I claimed Milwall were my dark horse this season. Why did I put Milwall down as a surprise challenger? Alex Neil. He knows how to get teams working for him, he knows how to make average players click as a unit, something Marti absolutely cannot do. 

We have better players than most teams in this division when they are on form, the issue is, the system we have adopted is making it much easier for players to not hit any form. How is Mavididi expected to hit form if he has to turn around and pass it backwards every time he gets the ball? if every time he gets to the by-line there is nobody bombing into the box to receive the cross. 
How can Winks hit form when every pass he makes is 5 yards and sideways, how can Fatawu hit better form if every single match he gets doubled up on and the manager is explicitly instructing players NOT to offer an overlap more often than not (he has to be instructing it at this point)
How can any of our strikers hit form, when the entire system is designed around needlessly passing it around sideways, giving the opposition 20+ passes to reposition themselves into a deep block, so that every time the striker gets the ball, they have their back to goal 25 yards out with no options. 

Good managers like Alex Neil, or even for us, Nigel Pearson know how to get the most out of each player despite them maybe not being the best on paper, Marti cannot do that, he doesn't know how it seems. 

Hassenhuttl kept Southamtpon above water for far longer than they deserved. He didn't do a perfect job and he made many mistakes, but he's a huge upgrade on what we've seen so far. If we want to go all out Urs Fischer would be an instant upgrade. 
Go and watch how Rangers perform tomorrow under Rohl. The intensity, pressing and attacking will be far superior to anything Russel Martin put up. 

I don't think the manager wants them to pass it around they just aren't capable of doing anything else because most of them are bang average or don't want to be here.

 

How hard is that to understand ? 

[Paninistickers]

1 minute ago, Chelmofox said:

Wout has an attitude problem

There is absolutely no evidence of this whatsoever. This allegation of attitude problem is some kind of weird parasocial relationship thing or projection of your own frustrations. 

 

I don't see it. I've never even heard him speak ffs, let alone observed a bad attitude 

[TonyN11]

He'll turn it around, stay patient

[whoareyaaa]

1 minute ago, Paninistickers said:

There is absolutely no evidence of this whatsoever. This allegation of attitude problem is some kind of weird parasocial relationship thing or projection of your own frustrations. 

 

I don't see it. I've never even heard him speak ffs, let alone observed a bad attitude 

He said he wants out many times and is always throwing his hands up when a goals goes in, he is the first that needs to go

 

he is also full of erros and always out of position 

Edited 25 October 2025 by whoareyaaa

[funkyrobot]

27 minutes ago, Tielemans63 said:

We have undoubtedly got huge issues, but he's paid to find solutions to problems and he isn't finding any. That's the brutal reality of it imho

 

He’d argue that 10th place is performing to expectations for this squad. Twice relegated players, no strikers, liabilities at left back, no money to spend. 

[Paninistickers]

Just now, whoareyaaa said:

He said he wants out many times and is always throwing his hands up when a goals goes in, he is the first that needs to go

 

he is also full of erros and always out of position 

Errors are different to attitude. Throwing hands up may just be a sign of not enjoying seeing goals conceded.

Agents haggling for moves....it's business love, not personal. He's a pro. 

[Metal Lover]

It's not his fault the players are all kuntz

 

[Noahfence]

The squad isn’t perfect I get that. But surely we should look a tad more creative with the likes of Fatawu, Winks, Ricardo, James & Ramsey? Mavididi when he’s back from injury too. Monga has shown flashes too that he can produce something. 
 

I just think he should be getting more from these players I really do.

 

The defensive options are a car crash I’ll give him that. Although he’s the one picking Thomas every week 

[DegenerateLion]

3 minutes ago, cityfanlee23 said:

Why did I put Milwall down as a surprise challenger? Alex Neil. He knows how to get teams working for him, he knows how to make average players click as a unit, something Marti absolutely cannot do. 
 

I won't add much about your performance, but average players? Our recruitment team has gone the Brentford model, and we've signed some players who will go onto play in the Premiership soon.

Femi Azeez, one of the best wingers in the Championship.

Thierno Ballo, techincally assured today, vital in helping us keep hold of the ball. Use to be a Chelsea youth player.

Ivanovic, Parma offered £14million for him over the summer, he should be doing better this season.

Crama from Brentford at centre back was immense today.

Alfie Doughty sitting on our bench while your left back having a nightmare.

Our 20 year old Masou-Sakou in midfield is looking so assured. 

Zak Sturge, our left back signed on a free from Chelsea looking great at 21 years old. Chelsea once paid Brighton £8million in compensation for him. 

When you add all that quality to the core Championship hardened players such as Cooper, Leonard, Mitchell, De Norre who have the hunger, desire and determination to fly into every tackle and battle to win games. We are a team to be feared this season. 

 

 I wouldn't take a single one of your players for our starting 11 from today.

 

Still, teams will still continue to underestimate us while we continue to play well. WBA (home), Stoke (home), Leicester (home) and we conceded about 4 shots on target in total in all of those games. Not a single team looked like scoring in any of those games. 

 

[Cincinnati Fox]

12 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

I ask this countless times but noone ever answers. What else should he do?

VK or 3 at the back.

 

[Dahnsouff]

So what are the options?

1. Sack him
   1. Risk repeating the cycle without further changes upstairs
   2. Might land on the next Enzo/emerging coach 
2. Stick with him
   1. Let him have this season and assuming we don’t look like going down, see how the momentum is come Easter
   2. Let him have the season, but give him some directive to further integrate the youth players
   3. Give him until December and if we don’t pick up, terminate

The youth thing hangs over this forum like some panacea or silver bullet, but we can see how ineffective youth can be, just as dis functional as some of the senior pros.

Of course they are the future, but have doubts that future is right now. 

 

[cityfanlee23]

1 minute ago, whoareyaaa said:

I don't think the manager wants them to pass it around they just aren't capable of doing anything else because most of them are bang average or don't want to be here.

 

How hard is that to understand ? 

That's a theory, but it's also rife with managers who adopt possession obsession, it happens under Martin, it happened under Enzo and has been happening with Chelsea. Sarri had the same issue, Brendan towards the end with us.

But on the flip side, if they aren't capable why is Marti not understanding that and adapting to his players? Why is he not trying to bed in players like Nelson who are the long term future of this club and have the capacity to learn the system and instead persisting with players who won't be here next season? If the players are as bad as many think on here, why is he persisting with a system that is throwing away points every week?