Wes Burns (signed, official)

[VLC86]

3 minutes ago, Sunbury Fox said:

Even in that season he only got 6 goals and 4 assists in a team that got 95 points. 

For me yeah, he was very aggressive and caused teams a lot of problems. For context, Abdul Fatawu scored a couple more but got a lot more assists.

[LCFCJohn]

2 hours ago, Bausor28 said:

Not digging anyone out but it seems people on this forum just copy other peoples opinions rather than have there own, so I’ll say what I think.

It’s the insinuation that anyone expressing any displeasure with decisions from the club somehow can’t think for themselves and must be a sheep. 
 

I think the forum collectively has been very fair. We’ve had no reason to be positive for years. This summer, we have seen positive signs with the sales, we can see the logic and positives in the signings even if there are sides where people are a bit concerned with. Even Russell Martin hasn’t upset us yet!

 

I’d say from how we ended the season, and on the back of the last 5 years ish, people are being very positive in giving things a chance. People will always have trepidation about certain aspects of the signings such as Burns recent injury at his age or lengths of contacts given how we have struggled to move players on.

 

But it doesn’t mean they are sheep or copying others options. Opinions will overlap.

[Spudulike]

41 minutes ago, ScotFox1 said:

Anyway.. has he signed yet??

 

 

 

I won't believe anything until it's officially announced by @moore_94

[Kalacs_Orthopedic_Shoe]

Might be we just need a few more adults to take care of this squad of children we have

[LCFCJohn]

1 hour ago, trooky said:

Burns is a strange signing, why didn't he sign for us when Fatawu left the club for Ipswich?

 

Either he isn't our first choice or Burns wasn't convinced by us and we've been negotiating to reduce the 3 years and contract terms.

 

Or was he offered as part of the Fatawu deal, but we wanted cash only and we've been lazy in our recruitment and gone back 2-3 weeks after? 

No idea. I just looked up when Maddison and Winks were announced respectively and that was only 3 days apart. 
 

It could be what you say, or an effort to try and leave a gap to make them look unrelated even though however you dress it up, 2 players moving between the same clubs, particularly in the same position is related. 

[Stopharage]

16 minutes ago, Kalacs_Orthopedic_Shoe said:

Might be we just need a few more adults to take care of this squad of children we have

This was my view. 
 

It’s all well and good saying we should be playing the academy kids and getting them in the shop window as they’re our potential way out of some of the mess we’re in. But for them to reach their potential we need players around them who are going to help them to be their best. As such, I really don’t think Burns, Chaplin, Cullen etc. are bad buys. You’re far more likely to get £5-10m for a young player if you’re flying high. 
 

Seems we’ve been shipping out players who were part of the rot for years and replacing them with players who have talent but are also seen as decent professionals. And at a cheaper outlay. 
 

 

[Scotch]

22 minutes ago, Kalacs_Orthopedic_Shoe said:

Might be we just need a few more adults to take care of this squad of children we have

Like I've said on this thread earlier, it also goes beyond "they will be a good influence" too. Jayden Joseph and Olabade Aluko have been two of our most impressive youngsters this pre-season. They are both RB's. You can't tell me that having someone like Burns in front of them who has experience, works hard and puts in the defensive work isn't going to protect them and make it easier for them to shine than someone like Alves who is not only more offensive which will expose the RB more but also a young lad learning his way just like them. 

[MGLCFC]

The two stand out academy players in pre season for me have been Braybrooke and Joseph - both have experienced successful loans. Carr, Hutchinson and Neale would all do well and follow Otchere on loan and get experience of proper football for a season, hopefully coming back ready to make the step up next season. I think Aloku, Page and possibly Evans are capable of being in or around the first team as it stands.

[Lillehamring]

2 hours ago, Bluetintedspecs said:

Exactly this 👏

I'd  say it's why so many, either ,do not bother  posting atall or contribute very little nowadays! 

This  overtly negative, anti club ,  extremely vocal minority make the site a depressing place to visit .

The boring clique who are not happy unless they're moaning also hurl abuse at anyone with an alternative viewpoint 

I have been off and on this forum for many years now; I still have a browse now and again, but don't post - the reason being, over the last few years I've tried to give a point of view that maybe our fall wasn't through  neglect, incompetence or mismanagement, but an ownership doing their best to survive an unexpected series of events and the unfair restrictions of PSR; yes, they've been naïve, yes they've made poor decisions, that happens...  Essentially for being an eternal optimist!  And I stopped posting because I got sick of the inevitable 'oh, you most work for KP' comments, and the, yes, abuse, i was getting from members simply for not toeing the seemingly universal  'KP OUT' line. 

 

The forced negativity, the scapegoating and the bullying by posters/cliques of posters on here made it unbearable and a waste of time having an opinion that tried to look at both sides of the coin.

 

It feels now that the club has started to come out of the other side - we seem to be operating within PSR, we've lost most of the high earners, Seagrave is starting to churn out the future, we have a new DOF, and there seems to be a willingness here to be positive again.

 

For what it's worth - i think this is a good signing - Russell will hopefully switch between burns and Alves from game to game and within games.  Just imagine a L1 defence having dealt with burns for 70 minutes suddenly having to cope with Alves!

[Stadt]

"Forced negativity"

[Ric Flair]

5 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

I have been off and on this forum for many years now; I still have a browse now and again, but don't post - the reason being, over the last few years I've tried to give a point of view that maybe our fall wasn't through  neglect, incompetence or mismanagement, but an ownership doing their best to survive an unexpected series of events and the unfair restrictions of PSR; yes, they've been naïve, yes they've made poor decisions, that happens...  Essentially for being an eternal optimist!  And I stopped posting because I got sick of the inevitable 'oh, you most work for KP' comments, and the, yes, abuse, i was getting from members simply for not toeing the seemingly universal  'KP OUT' line. 

 

The forced negativity, the scapegoating and the bullying by posters/cliques of posters on here made it unbearable and a waste of time having an opinion that tried to look at both sides of the coin.

 

It feels now that the club has started to come out of the other side - we seem to be operating within PSR, we've lost most of the high earners, Seagrave is starting to churn out the future, we have a new DOF, and there seems to be a willingness here to be positive again.

 

For what it's worth - i think this is a good signing - Russell will hopefully switch between burns and Alves from game to game and within games.  Just imagine a L1 defence having dealt with burns for 70 minutes suddenly having to cope with Alves!

To be fair you've arguably been proven wrong for trying to stick up for the custodians of our football club but at the time you may have been valid for doing so without the benefit of hindsight. If you still maintain that view though then we'll shake hands and move on as no point.

[honeybradger]

42 minutes ago, brookfox said:

Feels like there's a big difference between being able to turn it on in a low pressure friendly and doing it week in, week out under the pressure of your own fans, the opposition fans, the media, teammates etc. No doubt Carr has potential, but this is going to be a long tough season and while youngsters do play without fear initially it's a big ask to rely on them when their form inevitably drops as they may not have the mental resolve to cope. Not a criticism just a fact of life for most people. I fully get it's a bit chicken and egg, but personally I'd always favour a lower league loan first for these reasons.

We are in a lower league already though.

 

League one is the typical destination for a category one academy such as ours to send their best graduates for a first loan.

 

In terms of collapses we have seen many over the last few years despite having an experienced squad. If we start losing I would be surprised if Burns, Chaplin, Cullen are the ones to maintain a high standard.

 

Last season it was Jordan James (21) and to a lesser extent Fatawu (21) who maintained their standards despite the struggles of the team. This season I would expect it to be Braybrooke to maintain standards through a rough patch of form due to what he showed at Newport. My point is that there isn't a clear correlation between age/experience and performing when the chips are down.

[coolhandfox]

Just now, honeybradger said:

Otchere got 3 goals and 2 assists and that clearly didn't help him. If Otchere needed to work on his all round game then surely Carr's impressive all round game should be to his benefit.

 

For me, if Wes Burns had played for us in pre season and played the same way Carr did, we would all be impressed and saying we had done a good piece of business.

 

The difference is that Carr comes with the label of being "unproven" so we look at the performances with a different lens despite them being good enough if they came from an experienced player.

As attacking players, you need to show both that you have a strong all-round game and that you can contribute goals and assists. In my view, neither player has fully demonstrated both aspects consistently.

 

Burns, played 798 minutes in the Championship and contributed two goals and one assist which maybe gives RM conviction he will get goals and assists at this level. The same applies to Alves, who has already demonstrated that he can score and create goals in both League One and the Championship.

 

How many did Carr get in PL 2? 

 

Braybrooke spoke on the WYS podcast about how big the step up is from Under-21 to the senior game, and how beneficial his loan spell was for his development.

 

I send send Carr out on loan, regular first-team football and 30-40 senior appearances would probably do more for his development than sitting behind Alves and only getting limited minutes.

 

[Lillehamring]

59 minutes ago, brookfox said:

Feels like there's a big difference between being able to turn it on in a low pressure friendly and doing it week in, week out under the pressure of your own fans, the opposition fans, the media, teammates etc. No doubt Carr has potential, but this is going to be a long tough season and while youngsters do play without fear initially it's a big ask to rely on them when their form inevitably drops as they may not have the mental resolve to cope. Not a criticism just a fact of life for most people. I fully get it's a bit chicken and egg, but personally I'd always favour a lower league loan first for these reasons.

You only have to look at how quickly our own fans turned on Monga last year, and the rate that his performances dropped off - and, though younger, he was for more experienced than Carr.

[coolhandfox]

23 minutes ago, Stadt said:

"Forced negativity"

Can't blame people for being negative.

 

But I have to pull myself out of it to protect my own mental health. 

Edited 6 August by coolhandfox

[Lillehamring]

12 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

To be fair you've arguably been proven wrong for trying to stick up for the custodians of our football club but at the time you may have been valid for doing so without the benefit of hindsight. If you still maintain that view though then we'll shake hands and move on as no point.

I can only say that, although the outcome is concrete, the exact reasons and causes of this outcome are at best, and always only ever have been guesswork. 

 

I have seen so many people blaming things on Rudkin, for example, that are not and were never his responsibility.  I've  seen so many people screaming 'mismanagement' and overlooking the fact that they are talking about things that dozens of other clubs are also guilty of. So much blame thrown on the owners, when a good deal of the problems are unpredictable things like defensive errors in games, missing penalties and so on, unfortunate injuries, maresca leaving.  Too many people have oversimplified an extremely complicated spider's web of issues, by simply blaming top and rudkin, effectively, for everything.

 

And i'm frankly sick to death of fans claiming to know the financial and administrative ins and outs of the club - a club that are famously secretive and insular.  Even now, in this thread, posters claiming to know how much Burns' salary will be!

 

And I have never 'stuck up for' anything, i only ever suggested that there is always more than one way of looking at a situation, against a barrage of fans who simply took their one idea -  'universal incompetence' - and beat the rest of the forum to death with it.

 

So i finally come back and already get hit with the same criticisms and challenges,.  This føkking forum - I give up.

Edited 6 August by Lillehamring

[FoxinNotts]

26 minutes ago, Stadt said:

"Forced negativity"

[honeybradger]

13 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

As attacking players, you need to show both that you have a strong all-round game and that you can contribute goals and assists. In my view, neither player has fully demonstrated both aspects consistently.

 

 

Burns, played 798 minutes in the Championship and contributed two goals and one assist which maybe gives RM conviction he will get goals and assists at this level. The same applies to Alves, who has already demonstrated that he can score and create goals in both League One and the Championship.

 

How many did Carr get in PL 2? 

 

Braybrooke spoke on the WYS podcast about how big the step up is from Under-21 to the senior game, and how beneficial his loan spell was for his development.

 

I send send Carr out on loan, regular first-team football and 30-40 senior appearances would probably do more for his development than sitting behind Alves and only getting limited minutes.

 

Then why isn't Evans being considered given he scored 2 goals in 700 minutes in a rubbish Northampton team.

 

My perspective is that I enjoyed watching Leicester play football this pre season which is rare. Given what we've seen from this club you can't treat good performances as a given.

 

There have been many times over the last few years when players of a similar experienced profile to Burn come in and they don't perform. I think when players are playing well we should value that rather than looking for ways to discount them.

 

Our issue that when experienced players come in and don't perform we are told not to write them off and give them time but when academy players show a good level that's not enough.

[StinckleyFox]

22 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

I can only say that, although the outcome is concrete, the exact reasons and causes of this outcome are at best, and always only ever have been guesswork. 

 

I have seen so many people blaming things on Rudkin, for example, that are not and were never his responsibility.  I've  seen so many people screaming 'mismanagement' and overlooking the fact that they are talking about things that dozens of other clubs are also guilty of. So much blame thrown on the owners, when a good deal of the problems are unpredictable things like defensive errors in games, missing penalties and so on, unfortunate injuries, maresca leaving.  Too many people have oversimplified an extremely complicated spider's web of issues, by simply blaming top and rudkin, effectively, for everything.

 

And i'm frankly sick to death of fans claiming to know the financial and administrative ins and outs of the club - a club that are famously secretive and insular.  Even now, in this thread, posters claiming to know how much Burns' salary will be!

 

And I have never 'stuck up for' anything, i only ever suggested that there is always more than one way of looking at a situation, against a barrage of fans who simply took their one idea -  'universal incompetence' - and beat the rest of the forum to death with it.

 

So i finally come back and already get hit with the same criticisms and challenges,.  This føkking forum - I give up.

Were you not aware that the people on this forum are all DOFs, Scouts and tactical geniuses that instead of forging a career at an elite football club would rather just berate fans on a forum?

[jv1]

24 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

I can only say that, although the outcome is concrete, the exact reasons and causes of this outcome are at best, and always only ever have been guesswork. 

 

I have seen so many people blaming things on Rudkin, for example, that are not and were never his responsibility.  I've  seen so many people screaming 'mismanagement' and overlooking the fact that they are talking about things that dozens of other clubs are also guilty of. So much blame thrown on the owners, when a good deal of the problems are unpredictable things like defensive errors in games, missing penalties and so on, unfortunate injuries, maresca leaving.  Too many people have oversimplified an extremely complicated spider's web of issues, by simply blaming top and rudkin, effectively, for everything.

 

And i'm frankly sick to death of fans claiming to know the financial and administrative ins and outs of the club - a club that are famously secretive and insular.  Even now, in this thread, posters claiming to know how much Burns' salary will be!

 

And I have never 'stuck up for' anything, i only ever suggested that there is always more than one way of looking at a situation, against a barrage of fans who simply took their one idea -  'universal incompetence' - and beat the rest of the forum to death with it.

 

So i finally come back and already get hit with the same criticisms and challenges,.  This føkking forum - I give up.

Having your own opinion is absolutely fine pal - lots of people agree with a lot of what you are saying - it’s ok to disagree with someone else - you have your opinion and let others have theirs - as long as it doesn’t get personal then no issues 

[coolhandfox]

12 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

Then why isn't Evans being considered given he scored 2 goals in 700 minutes in a rubbish Northampton team.

He's habit of picking up niggle injuries in pre-season haven't helped, be interesting to see the plan for him.

12 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

My perspective is that I enjoyed watching Leicester play football this pre season which is rare. Given what we've seen from this club you can't treat good performances as a given.

I feel the same but I willing to give RM the benefit of the doubt, I think this is the season we see Alves, Braybrooke, Page, Joseph and Aluko break though. He is under massive pressure to save his career, so he is going to want some experience. 

12 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

There have been many times over the last few years when players of a similar experienced profile to Burn come in and they don't perform. I think when players are playing well we should value that rather than looking for ways to discount them.

You can't judge Burns on what BCDR and Ayew did anymore the you can judge Carr on what Silko Thomas or Monga did. 

12 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

Our issue that when experienced players come in and don't perform we are told not to write them off and give them time but when academy players show a good level that's not enough.

I don't think anyone has written Carr of its just balancing what best for the team and his long term development. 

 

 

Edited 6 August by coolhandfox

[brookfox]

30 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

We are in a lower league already though.

 

League one is the typical destination for a category one academy such as ours to send their best graduates for a first loan.

 

In terms of collapses we have seen many over the last few years despite having an experienced squad. If we start losing I would be surprised if Burns, Chaplin, Cullen are the ones to maintain a high standard.

 

Last season it was Jordan James (21) and to a lesser extent Fatawu (21) who maintained their standards despite the struggles of the team. This season I would expect it to be Braybrooke to maintain standards through a rough patch of form due to what he showed at Newport. My point is that there isn't a clear correlation between age/experience and performing when the chips are down.

Look I do get your point but on your examples both James and Fatawu had 100+ pro games under their belt and Braybrooke as you say has just done a season at Newport.

 

To expect a youngster (Carr) who has never played a full pro game but looked good in a friendly to perform in what is going to be a horribly high pressure season isn’t realistic imo. Look at Monga last season as an example. Hence I’d loan him out and am not against Burns for the season as in my opinion we’ll get more points with him in the squad than Carr.

[Rubbersoul]

If we have yet another season where our team is full of the same faces that consistently let us down I think we should be able to storm seagrave 

[South Shire Fox]

1 hour ago, Sunbury Fox said:

Even in that season he only got 6 goals and 4 assists in a team that got 95 points. 

Tbf he was often 2nd choice to Omari Hutchinson

[kingfox]

3 hours ago, CosbehFox said:

Lincoln who won the league last season did not experienced pros. 

Do you mean they didn’t sign experienced pros or didn’t have experienced pros? 
 

Their defence literally consisted of Darikwa(34), Bradley(34) and Reach(33).