Guest Fox-LMA Posted 6 August Posted 6 August 3 hours ago, CosbehFox said: Mind me being negative. After all, the club found itself in this position because a number of seriously reckless and stupid transfer deals. The room for margin is smaller than ever and hence every transfer is viewed with a great deal of scepticism from myself. There’s a vibe with this summer business which is getting a bit 23/24. Players capable of a job for a year, possibly a second and their personalities might be better, if they are being paid well, they will hard to move on. Everyone is ignoring that Chaplin was frankly shit for Pompey last season for example I want there to be a club in the future and I’m concerned that the increased revenue brought from League One to Championship won’t be enough. Even for a new owner that’s awful lot of debt to immediately saddle themselves with. Lincoln who won the league last season did not experienced pros. Darikwa, Reach, Collins, Jackson, Hackett, McGrandles, Sonny Bradley & House are mostly in their thirties...
Ric Flair Posted 6 August Posted 6 August 51 minutes ago, honeybradger said: We are in a lower league already though. League one is the typical destination for a category one academy such as ours to send their best graduates for a first loan. In terms of collapses we have seen many over the last few years despite having an experienced squad. If we start losing I would be surprised if Burns, Chaplin, Cullen are the ones to maintain a high standard. Last season it was Jordan James (21) and to a lesser extent Fatawu (21) who maintained their standards despite the struggles of the team. This season I would expect it to be Braybrooke to maintain standards through a rough patch of form due to what he showed at Newport. My point is that there isn't a clear correlation between age/experience and performing when the chips are down. This is it, if we aren't going to blood several academy players when we're at League One level and in a mess financially then we likely never will. 2
AKCJ Posted 6 August Posted 6 August 2 minutes ago, Ric Flair said: This is it, if we aren't going to blood several academy players when we're at League One level and in a mess financially then we likely never will. It's an opportunity to transform into a club with a proud tradition of transitioning players from the academy to the first team. We're desperate to copy Southampton yet their record of bringing players through their academy in the 2000s/2010s is something we should aspire to. I also have been envious of Man United's record of naming a player in their matchday squad from their academy. I think it's something like 90 years on the trot. 2
honeybradger Posted 6 August Posted 6 August 3 minutes ago, Ric Flair said: This is it, if we aren't going to blood several academy players when we're at League One level and in a mess financially then we likely never will. I don't think some of our fans are realistic about how willing the academy players will be willing to stick around either. Why stick around as an afterthought at a league one club when you could join a PL team, go on loan to league one as a key player like Watson then make the step up to a championship loan. Here if our players do have a successful league 1/league 2 loan and we don't get promoted they would still be tied to us in league 1. 1
CosbehFox Posted 6 August Posted 6 August 21 minutes ago, Fox-LMA said: Darikwa, Reach, Collins, Jackson, Hackett, McGrandles, Sonny Bradley & House are mostly in their thirties... Fair ****s
CosbehFox Posted 6 August Posted 6 August 24 minutes ago, kingfox said: Do you mean they didn’t sign experienced pros or didn’t have experienced pros? Their defence literally consisted of Darikwa(34), Bradley(34) and Reach(33). Fair ****s, I wasn’t aware of their age profile but to be fair they aren’t paying any of those five figures in wages to be ‘experienced’
coolhandfox Posted 6 August Posted 6 August (edited) 26 minutes ago, Ric Flair said: This is it, if we aren't going to blood several academy players when we're at League One level and in a mess financially then we likely never will. I think we will, but it will be the 19-21 year old Alves, Braybrooke, Joseph and Aluko. Plus the two 17 years old who have some experience in Page and Evans. As long as Neale, Carr, Hutchinson get loans I think that's fine. It's about balance. Edited 6 August by coolhandfox 3
boosmanana Posted 6 August Posted 6 August 12 minutes ago, coolhandfox said: I think we will, but it will be the 19-21 year old Alves, Braybrooke, Joseph and Aluko. Plus the two 17 years old who have some experience in Page and Evans. As long as Neale, Carr, Hutchinson get loans I think that's fine. It's about balance. Nah, you've got to play all the youth, can't block their pathways 1
Popular Post kingfox Posted 6 August Popular Post Posted 6 August What annoys me is that many fans have stated we need to get our culture right, now Russell Martin is trying to do exactly that, but signing a few experienced pros that know the league and have promotions on their CV, is the wrong way to go about it 🤷♂️ Just ask yourself this, did you really want to go into a League 1 season with the likes of Choudhury and BDCR as our main senior pros? Look at Chelsea this summer for instance, their model of signing only young players has constantly been ridiculed, now they’ve finally realised that it’s not the best way to go, so they bring in the likes of Welbeck and Henderson. It was so important for us to get the culture right this summer, along with getting the right squad balance. Burns, Chaplin and Cullen might all turn out shit, but you can clearly see that we’re going about our business to rectify those two issues. Getting the right balance in the squad is just sensible squad management, a few experienced pros coming through the door this summer, whether you like it or not was inevitable imo. In terms of our academy players, the core of Aluko, Joseph, Page, Braybrooke and Alves were always the five that were going to be looked at as being ready for the first team this season. Then you come to the likes of Gray, Neale, Briggs, Carr, Evans, Hutchinson and Otchere. Two have been loaned out, while question marks remain over the other five. Russell Martin specifically stated the other week that some will go on loan or remain with the U21s. Imo I hope at least one of Evans or Carr stick around and get some first team minutes on occasions, for the rest, especially Neale and Hutchinson, a loan to League Two might be ideal. 20 1
Guest Fox-LMA Posted 6 August Posted 6 August 10 minutes ago, CosbehFox said: Fair ****s No worries! But do bear in mind that we have a young squad as it is, & there is plenty of scope within it to develop players as the season wears on. I honestly believe that the way to build a successful squad & drive up standards is to create intra-squad competition for places. Our young players, as talented as they are, must fight for & earn their first team jerseys. That will be a big part of how they improve as players. Having them compete with pros like Chaplin & Burns (who should be excellent at this level) will help in this regard. Looking at the squad as it shapes up, I expect there will be plenty of opportunities for Aluko, JJ, Page, Braybrooke & Alves. But they have to take those chances as they come. I think the rest would require more U21 football whilst training with the first team, or good loans. I'm worried about Evans. RM has said that he is struggling to keep up in training. Never a good sign. If he can't train well then he won't give RM a reason to give him first team minutes.
Stadt Posted 6 August Posted 6 August We're going to end up with 2 senior pros starting for every genuinely young player. Alves, Braybrooke and whichever RB (can't rule out Coulibay though ) are the only likely nailed on starters at 21 and 22, then 19?. You'd think MacFarlane probably gets the nod but Thomas is just inevitable. McCarthy 36 RB ? Okoli/Faes 25/28 New CB ? Thomas/MacFarlane 25/19 Skipp/Chouhudry 25/28 Braybrooke 22 Alves 21 Burns 31 Chaplin 31 Cullen 27 There is no pint in trying to build a youthful sward if you then have to buy two older players to babysit them. Nobody is against experience per se but experienced players can be 25-28, not 31 year olds on big wages with poor injury records or recent seasons.
fkas Posted 6 August Posted 6 August 11 minutes ago, Fox-LMA said: No worries! But do bear in mind that we have a young squad as it is, & there is plenty of scope within it to develop players as the season wears on. I honestly believe that the way to build a successful squad & drive up standards is to create intra-squad competition for places. Our young players, as talented as they are, must fight for & earn their first team jerseys. That will be a big part of how they improve as players. Having them compete with pros like Chaplin & Burns (who should be excellent at this level) will help in this regard. Looking at the squad as it shapes up, I expect there will be plenty of opportunities for Aluko, JJ, Page, Braybrooke & Alves. But they have to take those chances as they come. I think the rest would require more U21 football whilst training with the first team, or good loans. I'm worried about Evans. RM has said that he is struggling to keep up in training. Never a good sign. If he can't train well then he won't give RM a reason to give him first team minutes. Evans is 17, not the end of the world if he's still maturing physically. Some are lucky and develop earlier for those that don't then it might still happen just not in time to be a teenage superstar. Evans isn't built particularly big either.
boosmanana Posted 6 August Posted 6 August 2 minutes ago, Stadt said: We're going to end up with 2 senior pros starting for every genuinely young player. Alves, Braybrooke and whichever RB (can't rule out Coulibay though ) are the only likely nailed on starters at 21 and 22, then 19?. You'd think MacFarlane probably gets the nod but Thomas is just inevitable. McCarthy 36 RB ? Okoli/Faes 25/28 New CB ? Thomas/MacFarlane 25/19 Skipp/Chouhudry 25/28 Braybrooke 22 Alves 21 Burns 31 Chaplin 31 Cullen 27 There is no pint in trying to build a youthful sward if you then have to buy two older players to babysit them. Nobody is against experience per se but experienced players can be 25-28, not 31 year olds on big wages with poor injury records or recent seasons. *Chaplin 29 The side you've posted, whilst not what I'd go with, looks pretty well balanced in terms of youth and experience. How do you know what salary we're going to be paying the experienced players that we're bringing in? Are you their agent? Are you involved in the contract negotiations?
CosbehFox Posted 6 August Posted 6 August 1 minute ago, boosmanana said: *Chaplin 29 The side you've posted, whilst not what I'd go with, looks pretty well balanced in terms of youth and experience. How do you know what salary we're going to be paying the experienced players that we're bringing in? Are you their agent? Are you involved in the contract negotiations? There’s little doubt that Burns will be coming in on something near to his Ipswich wage which is speculated around the £20k mark. He wouldn’t drop down without that
Stadt Posted 6 August Posted 6 August (edited) 8 minutes ago, boosmanana said: *Chaplin 29 The side you've posted, whilst not what I'd go with, looks pretty well balanced in terms of youth and experience. How do you know what salary we're going to be paying the experienced players that we're bringing in? Are you their agent? Are you involved in the contract negotiations? How do you know they're not being paid too much>? Are you their agent? Are you involved in the contract negations? If you haven't noticed the modus operandi at the club experiencing its worst ever period has been to overpay players. Our wage bill in 24/25 was about £150m. before that was confirmed you probably said 'of course we wouldn't pay Skipp so much, of course Okoli wouldn't be on a big wedge, how do you know we're paying Ayew and Reid too much?' We can look at patterns, we can look at estimates, we can come to a logical concussion that players dropping down a division aren't doing it for the love of the game. Edited 6 August by Stadt 1
coolhandfox Posted 6 August Posted 6 August (edited) 31 minutes ago, Stadt said: We're going to end up with 2 senior pros starting for every genuinely young player. Alves, Braybrooke and whichever RB (can't rule out Coulibay though ) are the only likely nailed on starters at 21 and 22, then 19?. You'd think MacFarlane probably gets the nod but Thomas is just inevitable. McCarthy 36 RB ? Okoli/Faes 25/28 New CB ? Thomas/MacFarlane 25/19 Skipp/Chouhudry 25/28 Braybrooke 22 Alves 21 Burns 31 Chaplin 31 Cullen 27 There is no pint in trying to build a youthful sward if you then have to buy two older players to babysit them. Nobody is against experience per se but experienced players can be 25-28, not 31 year olds on big wages with poor injury records or recent seasons. Chaplin is 29. Watson 20 If we have Alves, Braybrooke, Joseph, Aluko playing 30 odd games I think that ok. Add in Bristrić is he sign 23 and hopefully Burns is the last experience pro in. Still hopefully Skipp and Faes go. Anyone compare the average age of last years squad to this years? The hope is Alves, Braybrooke, Joseph, Aluko develop into you 22-25 year old pros, then the next batch come in. Edited 6 August by coolhandfox 1
GingerrrFox Posted 6 August Posted 6 August 1 hour ago, Ric Flair said: This is it, if we aren't going to blood several academy players when we're at League One level and in a mess financially then we likely never will. The mad thing about the discussion around our academy players is these lads were brought through when expectations around the club were, can they play in and around the premier league level? If the club hadn’t been mismanaged both financially and in recruitment, these players would have been sent out on loan to League 1/League 2 level to develop and progress. Now we actually find ourselves in League 1 and all of sudden it’s beyond reasonable expectation to give these players a real opportunity? 2
Chelmofox Posted 6 August Posted 6 August 1 minute ago, GingerrrFox said: The mad thing about the discussion around our academy players is these lads were brought through when expectations around the club were, can they play in and around the premier league level? If the club hadn’t been mismanaged both financially and in recruitment, these players would have been sent out on loan to League 1/League 2 level to develop and progress. Now we actually find ourselves in League 1 and all of sudden it’s beyond reasonable expectation to give these players a real opportunity? If they were loaned, they would also likely be playing with experienced players. I believe that at least the core group (Alves, Brayebrook, Aluko, Page, JJ) will be significant players this season, and one or 2 of the others will break through (have a sneaky feeling about Neale and Hutchinson). Others will benefit from loans. If it works like this, i think thats a positive. 1
bald reynard Posted 6 August Posted 6 August (edited) 25 minutes ago, Stadt said: We're going to end up with 2 senior pros starting for every genuinely young player. Alves, Braybrooke and whichever RB (can't rule out Coulibay though ) are the only likely nailed on starters at 21 and 22, then 19?. You'd think MacFarlane probably gets the nod but Thomas is just inevitable. McCarthy 36 RB ? Okoli/Faes 25/28 New CB ? Thomas/MacFarlane 25/19 Skipp/Chouhudry 25/28 Braybrooke 22 Alves 21 Burns 31 Chaplin 31 Cullen 27 There is no pint in trying to build a youthful sward if you then have to buy two older players to babysit them. Nobody is against experience per se but experienced players can be 25-28, not 31 year olds on big wages with poor injury records or recent seasons. You've forgotten Watson in that lineup, I would guess he'd be likely starter - more likely than Alves, especially playing on the left, with Burns on the right. Edited 6 August by bald reynard
ClaphamFox Posted 6 August Posted 6 August 18 minutes ago, CosbehFox said: There’s little doubt that Burns will be coming in on something near to his Ipswich wage which is speculated around the £20k mark. He wouldn’t drop down without that He might if he decided that the security of a three-year contract at a lower wage was better for him and his family than a one-year contract at a higher wage.
coolhandfox Posted 6 August Posted 6 August (edited) 22 minutes ago, Stadt said: How do you know they're not being paid too much>? Are you their agent? Are you involved in the contract negations? You could say the same about you? Playing devils advocate. Edited 6 August by coolhandfox
The whole world smiles Posted 6 August Posted 6 August 1 hour ago, Ric Flair said: This is it, if we aren't going to blood several academy players when we're at League One level and in a mess financially then we likely never will. This is on the academy players too irregardless of the profile of signings we have made there is going to be huge chances for lots of them in training, in the league cup and EFL trophy and yes in the league. It's up to them to take them.
Spudulike Posted 6 August Posted 6 August 29 minutes ago, CosbehFox said: There’s little doubt that Burns will be coming in on something near to his Ipswich wage which is speculated around the £20k mark. He wouldn’t drop down without that Could well be less as it's speculated to be a 3-year contract. Better than 1-year at Ipswich and out-of-contract next summer as an almost 33-year old.
CosbehFox Posted 6 August Posted 6 August (edited) 12 minutes ago, Spudulike said: Could well be less as it's speculated to be a 3-year contract. Better than 1-year at Ipswich and out-of-contract next summer as an almost 33-year old. 24 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said: He might if he decided that the security of a three-year contract at a lower wage was better for him and his family than a one-year contract at a higher wage. So what we going 33% cut? Still be a decent sum of £14k a week in a division where the average wage is £4k its not a value for money signing. We can debate his ability all day Edited 6 August by CosbehFox
boosmanana Posted 6 August Posted 6 August 37 minutes ago, Stadt said: How do you know they're not being paid too much>? Are you their agent? Are you involved in the contract negations? If you haven't noticed the modus operandi at the club experiencing its worst ever period has been to overpay players. Our wage bill in 24/25 was about £150m. before that was confirmed you probably said 'of course we wouldn't pay Skipp so much, of course Okoli wouldn't be on a big wedge, how do you know we're paying Ayew and Reid too much?' We can look at patterns, we can look at estimates, we can come to a logical concussion that players dropping down a division aren't doing it for the love of the game. It was you that stated that the 31 year old was on a big wage, I didn't comment on the amount that he's earning as I don't know what he earns currently or what he'd earn were he to join us. Neither do you. I didn't like the signings of Skipp, Okoli, Ayew or Reid as I don't rate them as footballers, but again, neither of us know what they're being paid so it's all conjecture.
Recommended Posts