Running and stuff

[Vlad the Fox]

Ha ha. I've been unmotivated and sitting on my arse since September, managing my first run last Saturday doing 3.5 miles in a vain attempt to get fit for the bosworth half. And I guess I do tend to lean a little towards the left.

[danny.]

Want to work out my gait or whatever and get some decent trainers.

This is complete bollocks made up by shoe companies to sell shoes. If you are getting injured, slow down, cut back on training for a bit or sort out your technique.

Gait tests and magic cushion shoes are complete snake oil.

You don't need shoes to run, and if your gait sucks then learn to change it and don't just try and mask it.

Based on that I'd say that Vlad the Fox is Left Wing and Danny. right

Haha yes I am quite right wing I suppose!

[Ozwin]

How the frig do you just start running differently? And what is considered the right way anyway?

[James.]

This is complete bollocks made up by shoe companies to sell shoes. If you are getting injured, slow down, cut back on training for a bit or sort out your technique.

Gait tests and magic cushion shoes are complete snake oil.

You don't need shoes to run, and if your gait sucks then learn to change it and don't just try and mask it.

Haha yes I am quite right wing I suppose!

How do you know all this? Not being argumentative, just genuinely curious where you get this opinion from...

[danny.]

How the frig do you just start running differently? And what is considered the right way anyway?

Watch a young child run without shoes, or take off your own shoes and run (on hard grass or something!), guarantee you won't heel strike and will just start naturally running how homosapiens have been running for millennia and not how we've been running for the last 30 years since people like Nike invented the modern running shoe.

How do you know all this? Not being argumentative, just genuinely curious where you get this opinion from...

Well of course I could be talking bollocks! Only my opinion, and I'm not an expert by any means.

But I started running with gait tests and various expensive shoes and basically got injured over and over despite spending loads of more shoes and physio sessions.

I then did shit loads of reading & research and decided to try the 'barefoot' approach (in quotes as running in a city it isn't very practical to literally be barefoot!) as it had worked miracles for many people. I went from having completely messed up knees/shins to being completely injury free thereafter, and my PBs rocketed, went from a ~24min 5k time to ~18 mins in about 3 months, 10k down to around 40 mins (from an hour), HM 1:30 (from 2 hours) without doing much other than start running how my body was meant to. I'm still a fat **** as well and train no where near as hard as everyone else at my running club.

If you google "Born to run" that's a brilliant general background book, also people like Lee Saxby, Dan Lieberman, Chris McDougal have some good info on the subject.

Of course most people will tell you it's all bollocks, esp. Nike/Adidas/Asics etc. just have a look into it and properly try both ways and see what you think!

[James.]

Watch a young child run without shoes, or take off your own shoes and run (on hard grass or something!), guarantee you won't heel strike and will just start naturally running how homosapiens have been running for millennia and not how we've been running for the last 30 years since people like Nike invented the modern running shoe.

Well of course I could be talking bollocks! Only my opinion, and I'm not an expert by any means.

But I started running with gait tests and various expensive shoes and basically got injured over and over despite spending loads of more shoes and physio sessions.

I then did shit loads of reading & research and decided to try the 'barefoot' approach (in quotes as running in a city it isn't very practical to literally be barefoot!) as it had worked miracles for many people. I went from having completely messed up knees/shins to being completely injury free thereafter, and my PBs rocketed, went from a ~24min 5k time to ~18 mins in about 3 months, 10k down to around 40 mins (from an hour), HM 1:30 (from 2 hours) without doing much other than start running how my body was meant to. I'm still a fat **** as well and train no where near as hard as everyone else at my running club.

If you google "Born to run" that's a brilliant general background book, also people like Lee Saxby, Dan Lieberman, Chris McDougal have some good info on the subject.

Of course most people will tell you it's all bollocks, esp. Nike/Adidas/Asics etc. just have a look into it and properly try both ways and see what you think!

That's really interesting, cheers. My 5k PB is around 22:30, going sub-20 feels a long way off so seeing your improvements over such a short space of time makes me very curious about barefoot running!

In fact looking at those PB improvements again, they are absolutely massive. Seem to remember shops in Camden being mentioned as good places to start - do they also give advice on running technique or is it best to refer to those sources above?

[danny.]

Yea I did parkrun and was basically knocking about a minute a month, was pretty nuts - thinking about it I think it was slower than 3 months tho, more like 4-5, still good going compared to where I was before (shaving seconds off) tho. The 10k changes and HM were around 6 months apart.

If you can run say 30% more efficiently, you can go 30% faster for the same effort (I'm sure that isn't the correct ratio but you get my just), so you don't need to get any fitter to get a lot faster.

I know Vivobarefoot in Camden do classes there, it's £50 a session. I've never had a class from anyone tho. I watched a lot of videos on barefoot running on YouTube. I got some Vibram FiveFingers off the net - they have about 4mm of padding, so enough to step on stuff and it not cut you (although it still hurts like hell, esp at first) and I then just started running taking it very very slowly.

You basically have to run differently, if you run like you do in shoes it hurts an awful lot - esp. if you land on your heel as there is no padding on your heel so it absolutely kills. After about 5-6 steps of it hurting you just then start naturally running forefoot (cos it's the only way that doesn't hurt).

If you do try it, take it very very slow. And I mean like do 100m max the first time, then 150m, 200m etc. not like 2 miles as your first run. If you have only ran in shoes you have basically had your feet in a cast, so they will be atrophied same as if you have a limb in a cast for 6 months, so you will probably use muscles you haven't used before. I once, after about 4-5 months, went for a 13 mile run in Five Fingers and when I got back my achilles hurt so much I couldn't walk for about 2 weeks!

[Durnerz]

Lost nearly two stone since the new year, mainly through rowing and cardio, need to do more running but playing small sided football every week now and feeling better for it.

Just need to lose another half stone before my holiday in july and continue with the progress and i'll be in a good position to step up fitness.

[Alexikokopops]

Watch a young child run without shoes, or take off your own shoes and run (on hard grass or something!), guarantee you won't heel strike and will just start naturally running how homosapiens have been running for millennia and not how we've been running for the last 30 years since people like Nike invented the modern running shoe.

Well of course I could be talking bollocks! Only my opinion, and I'm not an expert by any means.

But I started running with gait tests and various expensive shoes and basically got injured over and over despite spending loads of more shoes and physio sessions.

I then did shit loads of reading & research and decided to try the 'barefoot' approach (in quotes as running in a city it isn't very practical to literally be barefoot!) as it had worked miracles for many people. I went from having completely messed up knees/shins to being completely injury free thereafter, and my PBs rocketed, went from a ~24min 5k time to ~18 mins in about 3 months, 10k down to around 40 mins (from an hour), HM 1:30 (from 2 hours) without doing much other than start running how my body was meant to. I'm still a fat **** as well and train no where near as hard as everyone else at my running club.

If you google "Born to run" that's a brilliant general background book, also people like Lee Saxby, Dan Lieberman, Chris McDougal have some good info on the subject.

Of course most people will tell you it's all bollocks, esp. Nike/Adidas/Asics etc. just have a look into it and properly try both ways and see what you think!

I plan to start looking into running "barefoot" after the London Marathon this year (I figured it wasn't sensible to start looking into it midway through marathon training). This has intensified a bit since I started having a bit of calf trouble. However, I have an issue with overpronating (the main support I have on my current trainers is on the inside). It's bad enough that I'm thinking of getting some insoles for my every day shoes to stop the ridiculous asymmetrical wear I end up with on the heel. My initial thought is that this shouldn't be too bad (because you're running on the front of your foot anyway) but do you have any experience with that or know much about it?

[Bob Weasel Fox]

Not sure about Leicester but running fox in Loughborough are very good. Sorted me out with some new trainers a few years back and I've never had shin pains since. She even guessed I had pains in my shins from watching me walk up and down the shop.

Is it still Rosie who runs that shop in luffbra?

[danny.]

I plan to start looking into running "barefoot" after the London Marathon this year (I figured it wasn't sensible to start looking into it midway through marathon training). This has intensified a bit since I started having a bit of calf trouble. However, I have an issue with overpronating (the main support I have on my current trainers is on the inside). It's bad enough that I'm thinking of getting some insoles for my every day shoes to stop the ridiculous asymmetrical wear I end up with on the heel. My initial thought is that this shouldn't be too bad (because you're running on the front of your foot anyway) but do you have any experience with that or know much about it?

Give it a go man, you are basically living in a cast at the moment if you are always wearing shoes with loads of supports and padding in.

Have you tried wearing really minimal shoes on an every day basis? I tend to wear as flat/minimal shoes as possible all the time as otherwise your feet are almost-always atrophied. Especially dress shoes go to a crazy point which is the complete opposite of a natural foot shape and doesn't let you walk properly at all. You would probably walk (and run) a lot differently if your shoes were more natural, without even thinking about it.

[Ozwin]

Barefoot running? As in those five finger shoes I've seen recently?

Sounds painful haha! Are they supposed to promote toe first running with less heel then?

[danny.]

Surprisingly doesn't hurt at all unless you step on sharp things! I wouldn't say "less heel", absolutely no heel at all as it hurts like **** if you tried to land on your heel!

[Ozwin]

I just think back to when I had to walk about 5 miles in plimsoles once and my heels were in bits for days.

These five fingers do look wicked though, something animalistic about them haha.

[Alexikokopops]

Give it a go man, you are basically living in a cast at the moment if you are always wearing shoes with loads of supports and padding in.

Have you tried wearing really minimal shoes on an every day basis? I tend to wear as flat/minimal shoes as possible all the time as otherwise your feet are almost-always atrophied. Especially dress shoes go to a crazy point which is the complete opposite of a natural foot shape and doesn't let you walk properly at all. You would probably walk (and run) a lot differently if your shoes were more natural, without even thinking about it.

They're not crazily supported but it's definitely needed if for the heel running I'm doing at the moment - if I went for non-supported trainers and ran in the conventional fashion it wouldn't do me any good, I have weird legs! I've done that before and the support saves me a lot of injuries. It's another reason I want to look into barefoot running - I don't like the fact I'm reliant on the support to stop me overpronating and I don't think I'm ever going to be able to adjust my gait to the extent that I can heel run and not overpronate (my lower legs are bent a bit oddly and I have very high arches).

I always wear very flat shoes because, thankfully, I can wear whatever I want to work (even £5 Primark plimsols ). I can probably count on one hand the numebr of times I've worn dress shoes in the past year, or shoes with any kind of a heel!

[Vlad the Fox]

Is it still Rosie who runs that shop in luffbra?

It was when I last went in, and her sister I think.

[Vlad the Fox]

I needed extra support in my trainers as my feet were rolling inwards which was causing me the pain in my shins. Probably caused by flat feet. I was recommended a pair of brooks which I've used since without the problem arising again. I was using Asics previously.

[Charl91]

Old hernia injury flairing up is hampering my running at the moment

[Bob Weasel Fox]

I needed extra support in my trainers as my feet were rolling inwards which was causing me the pain in my shins. Probably caused by flat feet. I was recommended a pair of brooks which I've used since without the problem arising again. I was using Asics previously.

I haven't seen Rosie for years but I used to know her quite well (well my dad really) nice lady knows her stuff

[Vlad the Fox]

I haven't seen Rosie for years but I used to know her quite well (well my dad really) nice lady knows her stuff

I only knew her from the few times I've been in the shop, but yes really helpful and friendly and as you say both her and her sister really know their stuff as proved to me with regards my shins. I need to go in at some point this summer as I've about wore my trainers out.

[Jordan]

I ran for perhaps the 2nd time in the past 9 months, albeit with a knee brace that must have made me resemble a cyborg.

I strained my right knee last spring and it's been an absolute bitch trying to get back to feeling 100% well again.

I've been treating my knee a little more lately, and it has started to respond well, so I decided to lace up the sneakers once again and go for a little trot. It was weird as hell running with my leg all strapped up, but I did two easy miles in about 17-18 minutes and felt well, all things considered... I'll see how I feel in the morning, though.

Right now, I'm just planning on taking it easy and gradually building up strength and endurance. I don't think I'll really push it for a while. Down the road, though, I would like to race in a 10k in October and a 5-mile in November--both local races that I love to run, but unfortunately had to skip last year.

In addition to this, I really ought to take steps towards improving my flexibility. I've never been very flexible, but my whole lower body has tightened up so much lately. I can't even reach that much further than my knees, which is absolutely pathetic. I got a massage a few weeks ago, and I could actually feel how tight the muscles in my legs were, and how they affect how my back and knees feel. I'm going to have to spend a lot more time warming up and stretching before I run, and spend more time working on flexibility in general (maybe join a yoga class or something).

[FoxesAreBlue]

I ran for perhaps the 2nd time in the past 9 months, albeit with a knee brace that must have made me resemble a cyborg.

I strained my right knee last spring and it's been an absolute bitch trying to get back to feeling 100% well again.

I've been treating my knee a little more lately, and it has started to respond well, so I decided to lace up the sneakers once again and go for a little trot. It was weird as hell running with my leg all strapped up, but I did two easy miles in about 17-18 minutes and felt well, all things considered... I'll see how I feel in the morning, though.

Right now, I'm just planning on taking it easy and gradually building up strength and endurance. I don't think I'll really push it for a while. Down the road, though, I would like to race in a 10k in October and a 5-mile in November--both local races that I love to run, but unfortunately had to skip last year.

In addition to this, I really ought to take steps towards improving my flexibility. I've never been very flexible, but my whole lower body has tightened up so much lately. I can't even reach that much further than my knees, which is absolutely pathetic. I got a massage a few weeks ago, and I could actually feel how tight the muscles in my legs were, and how they affect how my back and knees feel. I'm going to have to spend a lot more time warming up and stretching before I run, and spend more time working on flexibility in general (maybe join a yoga class or something).

Flexibility works like muscle building or strength training, the more to stretch, the more flexible you become.

Follow a progressive programme and you will start to see a difference in no time.

[Alexikokopops]

In addition to this, I really ought to take steps towards improving my flexibility. I've never been very flexible, but my whole lower body has tightened up so much lately. I can't even reach that much further than my knees, which is absolutely pathetic. I got a massage a few weeks ago, and I could actually feel how tight the muscles in my legs were, and how they affect how my back and knees feel. I'm going to have to spend a lot more time warming up and stretching before I run, and spend more time working on flexibility in general (maybe join a yoga class or something).

I do Hatha yoga every week. The amount of stretching I do in 75 minutes is ridiculous! I'm planning to do a bit more Hatha and up that flexibility before I dare venture into Bikram (40 degree room, no talking, 90 minutes of sweat). It's incredibly relaxing as well as good for stretching. Love it.

[Vacamion]

If anyone who runs is suffering from achilles problems, I can definitely recommend a treadmill.

After starting out from total inactivity a bit under two years ago, I got to the stage where I started training for a half marathon. In my enthusiasm I pushed myself a bit too far at the start of last year and I spent 8 months struggling on and off with achilles issues in both ankles.

I have been using the RICE procedure and sole inserts and ankle supports and basically "managing" the injury, but my 5k times were flat and I couldn't see any improvement.

I got a treadmill at New Year and I've been on it 6 days a week since, doing a min of 5k a day.

My 5k and 10k times are coming down and I have been losing weight and improving condition, I think because:

- The treadmill is kinder to your legs than a road. It has more "give" in it.

- I can ice and elevate my legs straight after my run.

- Interval training is easier and I can motivate myself to keep my "effort" run up for "just another minute" or "just another 200m".

- If I fancy it I can have a walk, or go at an incline, or go flat out

- I can push myself harder in the knowledge that I can collapse in my own home when I'm done

The only running outside I have done in the last 3 months has been the parkrun and my times for that have been coming down.

It didn't come cheap, but the treadmill has really improved things for me with my old infirm ankles!

:)

[FoxesAreBlue]

If anyone who runs is suffering from achilles problems, I can definitely recommend a treadmill.

After starting out from total inactivity a bit under two years ago, I got to the stage where I started training for a half marathon. In my enthusiasm I pushed myself a bit too far at the start of last year and I spent 8 months struggling on and off with achilles issues in both ankles.

I have been using the RICE procedure and sole inserts and ankle supports and basically "managing" the injury, but my 5k times were flat and I couldn't see any improvement.

I got a treadmill at New Year and I've been on it 6 days a week since, doing a min of 5k a day.

My 5k and 10k times are coming down and I have been losing weight and improving condition, I think because:

- The treadmill is kinder to your legs than a road. It has more "give" in it.

- I can ice and elevate my legs straight after my run.

- Interval training is easier and I can motivate myself to keep my "effort" run up for "just another minute" or "just another 200m".

- If I fancy it I can have a walk, or go at an incline, or go flat out

- I can push myself harder in the knowledge that I can collapse in my own home when I'm done

The only running outside I have done in the last 3 months has been the parkrun and my times for that have been coming down.

It didn't come cheap, but the treadmill has really improved things for me with my old infirm ankles!

:)

I'm not disagreeing with you but just offering something to take into consideration.

When you run outside you plant your foot down and use that leg to push you forwards into the next step.

On a treaddy, you plant your foot and the belt pulls your foot backwards and you catch yourself with the next leg.

So in addition to the "give" in a treadmill which gives you less of an impact through your joints you are also doing only half of the work. Now this is not necessarily a bad thing if you are recovering from injury, in your case it's your achilles.

But please bear in mind that treadmill running is very different to running outside so when you do transfer back to the great outdoors then you should expect to see a slight "decline" in performance. Again. It doesn't mean that you've gone backwards, you've simply started on the next level of your leg strength/endurance.

Hope that makes sense.