Absolute *** of our time Pt.MXXVI

[Innovindil]

8 hours ago, Wymeswold fox said:

This type of cheating the system has appeared to become somewhat of a trend in recent times.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-41608113

Trouble with stopping shit like this is usually it costs more for companies to defend themselves than just pay out. 

 

Completely broken system, but only because there's enough people of questionable morals to ruin it for the rest of us. 

[Carl the Llama]

6 hours ago, Innovindil said:

Trouble with stopping shit like this is usually it costs more for companies to defend themselves than just pay out. 

 

Completely broken system, but only because there's enough people of questionable morals to ruin it for the rest of us. 

That article reads like she never received any money but instead got caught out, how does that equate to a completely broken system?  Am I missing something here? 

[Innovindil]

1 hour ago, Carl the Llama said:

That article reads like she never received any money but instead got caught out, how does that equate to a completely broken system?  Am I missing something here? 

Exception =/= rule. 

[fuchsntf]

Only shows ..that she is one hell of a  a very, very stupid woman....

Not all cheating benifit claimants get caught, but majority get tracked down.

The system is wrong. Every claimant like Germany  go through 1-2 specialists,

then a medical inspector specialist. The claimant often has to go through more walls,

unless an obvious disability takes them and is registared.

It seems its easy in the  Uk to jump on the bandwagon from the beginning, by just claiming.

Though also in Germany, the admin officers, are being let down they prefer to say no before

someone  one contests the descision.Then the individuals Doctors  and specialising Doctors, with

medical inspector, will look at the case again, when contented or " profound/fundamental contradiction is

put forward...Sometimes like  in my situation will revisit the issues, and look again at circumstance, if more permanent

disabilities seem obvious.

There is also the cases on longterm but temporary disabilities that goes through simular processes, to have tempory or

permanent passes.  There are also grades given from 10-100 gdb (%) to some.

Plus wheelchair or Highly disabled,plus  travel compagnion subsidies, travel, theater, events benifits.

In italy for example, all/any  invalidities allow you to park in most areas including city ZTLs.

I wish I hadnt become so heavy disabled 100GdB, after some early years being in Mountain rescue (non-climber), many years

trekked all major mountain areas and jungles, I now cant walk 60 meters, climb steps without long pauses.

A days garden work, now takes 1-2weeks.  

So benifit cheats really grinds my gears, especially  for folk worse off than myself, the only reason benifit inspectors

have a difficult job and times, is because of the cheats.Any one caught has false-claimants should be forced to do at least 6

months social-services, with the real disabled, physical and mentally.Every prison sentence, a long stint of it with SS, no matter what age, young and old...

Edited 14 October 2017 by fuchsntf

[Carl the Llama]

1 hour ago, Innovindil said:

Exception =/= rule. 

I'm not convinced that there is a rule being excepted here, do you have any evidence to suggest this incident is anomalous beyond the applicant's brazen stupidity?

 

20 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

Only shows ..that she is one hell of a  a very, very stupid woman....

Not all cheating benifit claimants get caught, but majority get tracked down.

The system is wrong. Every claimant like Germany  go through 1-2 specialists,

then a medical inspector specialist. The claimant often has to go through more walls,

unless an obvious disability takes them and is registared.

It seems its easy in the  Uk to jump on the bandwagon from the beginning, by just claiming.

Though also in Germany, the admin officers, are being let down they prefer to say no before

someone  one contests the descision.Then the individuals Doctors  and specialising Doctors, with

medical inspector, will look at the case again, when contented or " profound/fundamental contradiction is

put forward...Sometimes like  in my situation will revisit the issues, and look again at circumstance, if more permanent

disabilities seem obvious.

There is also the cases on longterm but temporary disabilities that goes through simular processes, to have tempory or

permanent passes.  There are also grades given from 10-100 gdb (%) to some.

Plus wheelchair or Highly disabled,plus  travel compagnion subsidies, travel, theater, events benifits.

In italy for example, all/any  invalidities allow you to park in most areas including city ZTLs.

I wish I hadnt become so heavy disabled 100GdB, after some early years being in Mountain rescue (non-climber), many years

trekked all major mountain areas and jungles, I now cant walk 60 meters, climb steps without long pauses.

A days garden work, now takes 1-2weeks.  

So benifit cheats really grinds my gears, especially  for folk worse off than myself, the only reason benifit inspectors

have a difficult job and times, is because of the cheats.Any one caught has false-claimants should be forced to do at least 6

months social-services, with the real disabled, physical and mentally.Every prison sentence, a long stint of it with SS, no matter what age, young and old...

The story's more about insurance fraud than disabled benefits, nevertheless I feel like you have an unrealistic view of benefits in the UK.  To give you an idea of how it works from within my experience is that if the system is broken it's by being too laboriously slow, requiring a lot of red tape (proper scrutiny of applicants is not a bad thing though) and having unrealistic price caps.  I'm thankfully getting back into work next week so I'll soon be living off my own labour once more which means I'll have spent more time applying for benefits with all of its bureaucratic hoops to jump through and weekly meetings to attend than actually receiving a payment which requires using over a hundred quid of the general expenses allowance (+-£310) to supplement the frankly deluded maximum rent allocation (+-£350, might be feasible in some parts of the country but certainly not here) - figures are ballpark.

 

In defence of the rent allocation there is a system for applying to receive further rent support but they don't tell you that until they let you know how much you're being allocated a couple of days before the first payment (even though they should have known from day 1 of my application when I submitted all the necessary information that my already relatively low rent for this area wouldn't be covered by the cap) and being pretty confident that I was closing in on a job at that point I didn't feel the need to start another lengthy claim process.

 

If that's how slow and diligent they are with regular applicants I simply can't see it being a cakewalk to fraudulently claim disabled benefits, I suspect this is one of those things where the occasional big story warps people's views on how endemic the problem really is.

[Innovindil]

6 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

I'm not convinced that there is a rule being excepted here, do you have any evidence to suggest this incident is anomalous beyond the applicant's brazen stupidity?

How many of these cases do you see go to court and the person sent to prison? How many of them are just paid off? 

 

The vast, and I mean vast, are simply paid out, it costs more to defend than to pay. That's why there's been a massive increase in people saying "uh, I got sick, need monies" and why foreign hotels have started kicking off over it. 

 

If a system costs more to the defender than the "attacker" gets paid then it's a broken system, and while not the root cause of the problem (morally corrupt people's greed is), it's definitely a contributing factor. 

[Carl the Llama]

28 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

How many of these cases do you see go to court and the person sent to prison? How many of them are just paid off? 

 

The vast, and I mean vast, are simply paid out, it costs more to defend than to pay. That's why there's been a massive increase in people saying "uh, I got sick, need monies" and why foreign hotels have started kicking off over it. 

 

If a system costs more to the defender than the "attacker" gets paid then it's a broken system, and while not the root cause of the problem (morally corrupt people's greed is), it's definitely a contributing factor. 

Are you basing this view off of any hard figures or is it just a feeling you get? 

 

We've all seen people take a sick day or two because of a hangover but if you're suggesting there's a pandemic of sick-leave fraudsters and that the system's rigged against employers I have to disagree.  If anything what I've seen since I returned to the UK has convinced me that the legal system as a whole tends to favour employers over their disposable minions on their zhc's with scant financial means to engage unfair employers in lengthy court proceedings.  Case in point I never took my previous employer to court even though I had an open and shut unfair dismissal case simply because it would have taken too much money and effort for the small reward of a couple weeks' more pay entitlement, likewise I have a pregnant friend who's being advised not to take her boss to court over the way he's frozen her out of hours - after being in hospital for over a week with a particularly severe form of morning sickness where her body literally started eating itself - and isn't paying for her sick leave despite her having provided numerous fit notes from her doctor, again because of the cost and time required to make what is in reality an open and shut case.

Edited 14 October 2017 by Carl the Llama

[fuchsntf]

56 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

I'm not convinced that there is a rule being excepted here, do you have any evidence to suggest this incident is anomalous beyond the applicant's brazen stupidity?

 

The story's more about insurance fraud than disabled benefits, nevertheless I feel like you have an unrealistic view of benefits in the UK.  To give you an idea of how it works from within my experience is that if the system is broken it's by being too laboriously slow, requiring a lot of red tape (proper scrutiny of applicants is not a bad thing though) and having unrealistic price caps.  I'm thankfully getting back into work next week so I'll soon be living off my own labour once more which means I'll have spent more time applying for benefits with all of its bureaucratic hoops to jump through and weekly meetings to attend than actually receiving a payment which requires using over a hundred quid of the general expenses allowance (+-£310) to supplement the frankly deluded maximum rent allocation (+-£350, might be feasible in some parts of the country but certainly not here) - figures are ballpark.

 

In defence of the rent allocation there is a system for applying to receive further rent support but they don't tell you that until they let you know how much you're being allocated a couple of days before the first payment (even though they should have known from day 1 of my application when I submitted all the necessary information that my already relatively low rent for this area wouldn't be covered by the cap) and being pretty confident that I was closing in on a job at that point I didn't feel the need to start another lengthy claim process.

 

If that's how slow and diligent they are with regular applicants I simply can't see it being a cakewalk to fraudulently claim disabled benefits, I suspect this is one of those things where the occasional big story warps people's views on how endemic the problem really is.

Interesting  points, and though red tape can be a bind, Detailed  scrutiny has to be rule of the process.

Your last sentence, probably is near too reality than, OTT reports or hyped tv programmes on the diverse subjects.

Fair dues...

[Innovindil]

42 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Are you basing this view off of any hard figures or is it just a feeling you get? 

 

We've all seen people take a sick day or two because of a hangover but if you're suggesting there's a pandemic of sick-leave fraudsters and that the system's rigged against employers I have to disagree.  If anything what I've seen since I returned to the UK has convinced me that the legal system as a whole tends to favour employers over their disposable minions on their zhc's with scant financial means to engage unfair employers in lengthy court proceedings.  Case in point I never took my previous employer to court even though I had an open and shut unfair dismissal case simply because it would have taken too much money and effort for the small reward of a couple weeks' more pay entitlement, likewise I have a pregnant friend who's being advised not to take her boss to court over the way he's frozen her out of hours - after being in hospital for over a week with a particularly severe form of morning sickness where her body literally started eating itself - and isn't paying for her sick leave despite her having provided numerous fit notes from her doctor, again because of the cost and time required to make what is in reality an open and shut case.

The hell are you even babbling about. How have we gone from holiday sickness insurance fraudsters to zhc's. 

[Carl the Llama]

15 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

The hell are you even babbling about. How have we gone from holiday sickness insurance fraudsters to zhc's. 

Sorry if I went a bit of track there but it's hard to make a direct response when you keep sidestepping the question of what you're basing your opinion on.

[Innovindil]

48 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Sorry if I went a bit of track there but it's hard to make a direct response when you keep sidestepping the question of what you're basing your opinion on.

I'm basing my opinion on record reports of people suspiciously getting sick on holidays. Coupled with the fact that if a sizable number of them were getting served with jail time, there wouldn't be so many of them doing it. 

[Strokes]

17 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

I'm basing my opinion on record reports of people suspiciously getting sick on holidays. Coupled with the fact that if a sizable number of them were getting served with jail time, there wouldn't be so many of them doing it. 

I was sick on holiday, who is paying compo? Smirnoff, gordons........?

[Innovindil]

10 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I was sick on holiday, who is paying compo? Smirnoff, gordons........?

Jail for you. 

[urban.spaceman]

 

[bovril]

21 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

The more bollocks you spout, the more famous you get.

[Sampson]

4 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

The sole perpetrators of racism are white? 

 

So when Fascist Japan leading up to and during the Second Sino-Japanese War and WWII - which led to upwards of 25million Chinese people being murdered - created massive propaganda campaigns of Chinese people being inferior and backwards they weren't being racist becaise they were Asian? Their genocine of Hui Muslims wasn't racist either because they were Asian? Emperor Hirohito and Hideki Tojo weren't racist because they were Asian?

 

What the actual ****?

Edited 16 October 2017 by Sampson

[fuchsntf]

8 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

Arabia, Persia, Africa, India..Japan, China In fact Asia as an whole...

Not only of years gone By but , right up to today...

Perpetrators of Racism..!!!!..This person needs a real knowledge bucket, of world and peoples

Education. Africa and Asia  has been awash with it for 1000s of yrs.

Racism is not just plain to see black and white, but through all colour pigment spectrums, and shades.

Various tribes and peoples have been Desimated, even wiped out, through the muslim world, based not on

Religion, but pure genocide Racism....

China became a republic on the backbone of it, while conveniently squirming itself through communism...

Ignorance because of 'chips on the shoulder'  can destroy the honest fight against Racism Within , everytime the

Subject arrises...

[Strokes]

8 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

That’s pretty racist, ironically.

[Fox Ulike]

19 minutes ago, Strokes said:

That’s pretty racist, ironically.

It is. Ignorant woman.

 

She says that "racism is learned, not inherited". I used to think that - but i'm not sure I do any more...

[urban.spaceman]

10 hours ago, bovril said:

The more bollocks you spout, the more famous you get.

 

6 hours ago, Sampson said:

The sole perpetrators of racism are white? 

 

So when Fascist Japan leading up to and during the Second Sino-Japanese War and WWII - which led to upwards of 25million Chinese people being murdered - created massive propaganda campaigns of Chinese people being inferior and backwards they weren't being racist becaise they were Asian? Their genocine of Hui Muslims wasn't racist either because they were Asian? Emperor Hirohito and Hideki Tojo weren't racist because they were Asian?

 

What the actual ****?

 

1 hour ago, fuchsntf said:

Arabia, Persia, Africa, India..Japan, China In fact Asia as an whole...

Not only of years gone By but , right up to today...

Perpetrators of Racism..!!!!..This person needs a real knowledge bucket, of world and peoples

Education. Africa and Asia  has been awash with it for 1000s of yrs.

Racism is not just plain to see black and white, but through all colour pigment spectrums, and shades.

Various tribes and peoples have been Desimated, even wiped out, through the muslim world, based not on

Religion, but pure genocide Racism....

China became a republic on the backbone of it, while conveniently squirming itself through communism...

Ignorance because of 'chips on the shoulder'  can destroy the honest fight against Racism Within , everytime the

Subject arrises...

 

1 hour ago, Strokes said:

That’s pretty racist, ironically.

 

1 hour ago, Fox Ulike said:

It is. Ignorant woman.

 

She says that "racism is learned, not inherited". I used to think that - but i'm not sure I do any more...

She's mixed race. She's essentially calling her own mum a violent and oppressive racist. 

 

I feel bad for her if she's experienced racism in the past - that's inexcusable, and contrary to her understanding of the world I have experienced it too (despite being a White Englishman), but to come out with bullshit like this just proves her to be uncultured, untraveled, deeply ignorant and unbelievably racist. She's literally disproving her own argument by claiming that only White people are perpetrators of racism!

[leicsmac]

I think the argument she's trying to make is that pretty much all cases where racism is institutionalised and backed up with authority is where white people are doing it...but that's not true either (some East Asian countries spring to mind) so it really is a load of rubbish that is being spouted there.

[Wymsey]

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/faces-killers-who-murdered-man-634721

[bovril]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

I think the argument she's trying to make is that pretty much all cases where racism is institutionalised and backed up with authority is where white people are doing it...but that's not true either (some East Asian countries spring to mind) so it really is a load of rubbish that is being spouted there.

She's talking bollocks to get famous. It really is as simple as that.

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, bovril said:

She's talking bollocks to get famous. It really is as simple as that.

I said exactly that.

 

It seems to be rather easy to talk shite to get famous - exhibit A being Mr Trump.

[Sampson]

I'm not sure it's directly just to get famous - I like Yuval Harari's idea that it seems innate in humans (especially in the West where we largely no longer have to worry about where the food is coming from day to day) to want to imagine their life and their place in the world as this huge sweeping narrative in which they play a big part and will have meaning and triumph to a better place - religion used to fulfil this role in people's lives and it still does for a large proportion of the world but as the world has become more secular people have had to try and get that same sense of meaning in different ways - Communism and Fascism were both the most obvious examples in which people were convinced they were part of a movement which would lead humanity to a Utopia. But some people do the same through business or providing for their children and trying to bring them up to create a life of huge significance - but people also do it through campaigns such as hers when they try to create meaning for themselves by searching for a profound realisation that really isn't there and then campaigning to get their ideas out there. I don't think it's a search for fame per se as much as a search for meaning and to be a part of a grand narrative.

 

If you've ever seen the show BoJack Horseman then that's great at representing this and how even a character who is given everything but who is still constantly chasing meaning and the latest epiphany. And I think we've all done it - thought about what it would be like to lead something or be a part of this huge sweeping narrative which gave you as an individual "meaning".

 

I actually think I finally became content and had a huge weight lifted on my shoulders with life the moment I realised that the search for meaning and my life to be a sweeping grand narrative was all a load of rubbish and that humanity and the universe will end eventually anyway so any imprint you have on no matter how huge will be forgotten in the end - even Jesus and Mohammed will be forgotten by humanity in the end, so too will Rameses II, Julius Caesar, Ghengis Khan or Napolean and everyone who's tried to be part of the sweeping narrative - All you can do is just try to treat other people well and enjoy your time while you're here, the meaning to your life should be just how you interact with your friends and family and your society as a whole.

Edited 16 October 2017 by Sampson