BoneDog Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 I've always thought it's a good thing living in a relatively civilised country... I agree with the gist of your point but I'm not sure we are any more civilised than 90% of others - we spend half our tax money on smashing various other countries to bits for starters!
Guest MattP Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 Yeah Matt but what we are saying is the preparedness to commit these acts is socio political and has been brewing for a long time. It's not simply because 'the place is full of shit' - I'd also like to know what you meant by that. A 11 year old robbing an Ipod at 1am in the morning isnt a product of decades of social exclusion, its a product of appalling parenting, no respect for the law caused by incredible leniacy towards criminals and a westernerised culture of "I want I take". I was around Hackney, if the language offends you I'm sorry but "scum" is the only work apt enough for the people in the area and the behaviour they engage it, be it anything from spitting on the floor, to the assault I witnessed to the gangs roaming round just ready to jump on anything.
Guest MattP Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 Real thing I find sad Nick is if they were actually rising up agaisnt political opression they would have a lot of support, but you wont get that by deciding to burn down childrens hospitals and old peoples homes. It's very sad, the youth of the Middle East used the spring of 2011 to rose up to try and gain democracy and human rights, the youth of Britain rose up for the opportunity to steal a plasma and an I-Pod.
Nick Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 A 11 year old robbing an Ipod at 1am in the morning isnt a product of decades of social exclusion, its a product of appalling parenting, no respect for the law caused by incredible leniacy towards criminals and a westernerised culture of "I want I take". I was around Hackney, if the language offends you I'm sorry but "scum" is the only work apt enough for the people in the area and the behaviour they engage it, be it anything from spitting on the floor, to the assault I witnessed to the gangs roaming round just ready to jump on anything. I hear you mate. If I remove the emotion and go with the fist point about the 11 year old, you're right. There are contributing factors as to why this has happened. I'm sure the ones you have listed are contributory too. These factors are socio political. That's what's being said. I think if you dig a little deeper into these points you have made you will find cultural, social, economic and political narratives to your reasoning. Even 'mindless violent hooligan looters' are born out of something.
Guest Bilo Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 A 11 year old robbing an Ipod at 1am in the morning isnt a product of decades of social exclusion, its a product of appalling parenting, no respect for the law caused by incredible leniacy towards criminals and a westernerised culture of "I want I take". I was around Hackney, if the language offends you I'm sorry but "scum" is the only work apt enough for the people in the area and the behaviour they engage it, be it anything from spitting on the floor, to the assault I witnessed to the gangs roaming round just ready to jump on anything. You must see though that the culture has changed. Thirty odd years ago, the thought of an 11 year old being out on his own at 1am would be frowned upon; let alone out at 1am robbing. It's a product of appalling parenting granted, but what is the appalling parenting a product of? It's highly unlikely that this kid came from a comfortable, well educated middle class background. His situation is most likely the never ending of perpetual social deprivation that has been going for decades, of which his parents are almost certainly victims. This doesn't justify it, far from it, but it does complicate things somewhat. There is seldom a simple answer to a complex question.
Nick Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 Real thing I find sad Nick is if they were actually rising up agaisnt political opression they would have a lot of support, but you wont get that by deciding to burn down childrens hospitals and old peoples homes. It's very sad, the youth of the Middle East used the spring of 2011 to rose up to try and gain democracy and human rights, the youth of Britain rose up for the opportunity to steal a plasma and an I-Pod. Aint that the truth.
21st Century Fox Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 As much as violence is inexcusable these people haven't beamed down from a different planet overnight, they've lived and grown up in our society for generations. That says theres something fundamentally wrong with society and that we choose to ignore it until something like this happens. You can blame irresponsible parenting but these people are going to grow up to be irresponsible parents themselves and we'll have to deal with this again in 30 years. Making cuts in areas that could give these people any shred of a future and steer them away from the 'nothing to lose' mentality is just fuel on the fire.
Guest Bilo Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 It's very sad, the youth of the Middle East used the spring of 2011 to rose up to try and gain democracy and human rights, the youth of Britain rose up for the opportunity to steal a plasma and an I-Pod. Which completely sums up what our culture has become. Personal fulfillment is measured not on a strong family unit, a loving home and emotional security. It is based on the number of electrical items you own, the designer logos you wear and the car you drive. The first three are bonuses at best and more or less irrelevant at worst. Individualism and consumerism, even to the detriment of others, is king.
Daggers Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 A 11 year old robbing an Ipod at 1am in the morning isnt a product of decades of social exclusion, its a product of appalling parenting... Which is the result of?
Monk Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 I never knew Millwall had so many fans. Scumbags Miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiilllllllllll
Guest MattP Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 Which is the result of? a product of appalling parenting, no respect for the law caused by incredible leniacy towards criminals and a westernised culture of "I want I take". Problem is I do understand all the points made here but we have gone miles beyond pouring money into the areas that need it, unfortunately the horse has bolted, we have generations now they dont work, wont work and never will no matter what we do. We are totally screwed, I have absolutely no idea how this ends.
General Smuts Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 Can we stop with all this reasoned discussion and political nonsense please - dick and fart jokes only please.
eye666 Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 Problem is I do understand all the points made here but we have gone miles beyond pouring money into the areas that need it, unfortunately the horse has bolted, we have generations now they dont work, wont work and never will no matter what we do. We are totally screwed, I have absolutely no idea how this ends. Probably with a far-right government who bring about a eugenics and sterilisation program. Wait... minus the far-right government, that doesn't sound all that bad at the moment.
MC Prussian Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 I never knew Millwall had so many fans. Scumbags Miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiilllllllllll I hope Michael Calvin got his fair share of the loot. Can we stop with all this reasoned discussion and political nonsense please - dick and fart jokes only please. What would Silent Bob do? Yes LEAVE!!! NOW!!! How about a nice little indefinite holiday trip to Jersey or Guernsey?
FoxyPV Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 Nah, it's advanced consumerism. It's one and the same thing
MC Prussian Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 Problem is I do understand all the points made here but we have gone miles beyond pouring money into the areas that need it, unfortunately the horse has bolted, we have generations now they dont work, wont work and never will no matter what we do. We are totally screwed, I have absolutely no idea how this ends. Well how about stopping demolishing shopping windows looting rioting brawling setting houses and shops on fire? It's one and the same thing I concur. Two sides of the same coin.
Guest MattP Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 Well how about stopping demolishing shopping windows looting rioting brawling setting houses and shops on fire? Ideal yes but they dont appear to be doing so. I said a few years ago the scum will eventually grow to levels that could outnumber the law-abiding. We have estates ran by gang leaders rather than police forces and that number is only getting bigger. Didnt expect it this quick.
eye666 Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 Ideal yes but they dont appear to be doing so. I said a few years ago the scum will eventually grow to levels that could outnumber the law-abiding. We have estates ran by gang leaders rather than police forces and that number is only getting bigger. Didnt expect it this quick. I lived up in Manchester for a couple of years and worked in a bar. The number of drug dealers who came in was sickening, and worse than that was the way that they were treated because they had massive rolls of cash. All these people thinking they were the mutts nuts because they carried around a grand in cash. Tossers.
Phube Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 Looting is the population’s way of saying ‘there is no such thing as society’. What is that young guy doing with a plasma screen under his arm? He could never acquire that from working down Tescos, so he has waited for an opportunity and when the rules no longer apply to him and the prevailing culture has liberalised the property laws he has acted in his own self interest and to **** with everyone else. Isn’t that EXACTLY what we have been saying to everyone else? The only difference is that ‘we’ removed the rules willingly. You seriously believe any of the looters actually have jobs!?!?
Phube Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 Funny article on the Daily Mash: Riots caused by society or lazy, thieving pricks, say experts09-08-11 THE London riots are the inevitable consequence of a society that includes some arseholes who like to steal things instead of working, experts claimed last night. Sociologists said the devastation across the capital was the direct result of either social exclusion and government cutbacks or some young, inner-city pricks finding a flimsy excuse to set fire to Carpetright. As the city's often neglected underclass of dicks, twats and ****ers, let out a desperate cry of opportunist theft, Waterstones in Clapham was only spared after staff hurriedly removed the Stars of the Jeremy Kyle Show Pop-Up Book from the window. Dr Tom Logan said: "I'm a sociologist, which means three things - I have an appalling education, I have very little money and most of the time I am unbelievably bored. "And yet I have only a fairly small inclination to set fire to some shops while refreshing my tracksuit collection. "You see, some people are just dicks, but sometimes even dicks like an excuse." Rioter Martin Bishop said: "I'm not entirely sure who is to blame for me wanting to steal things and then set fire to the building where those things used to be. "But it is nice to have the flimsy excuse. It makes me feel more mature." Meanwhile, as former England cricket captain Alec Stewart began assembling a posse of vigilante test heroes, seismologists reported a sudden lurch to the right as people who own tagines found themselves calling for the immediate deployment of the Parachute Regiment and a couple of RAF Tornadoes. Julian Cook, a planning consultant from Finsbury Park, said: "As long as it doesn't get too 'Bloody Sunday' I think it could teach them a valuable lesson about property rights and the rule of law." But Dr Logan stressed that long after the fires had been extinguished debate would continue to rage over what turned these dicks into the ****ers they are. He added: "I suspect it'll be easier if we all just agree to blame Carpetright."
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 Rioting almost seems in vouge? This is not the first and certainly won't be the last one in recent years and it makes me wonder if the failure of previous peaceful protests gives rise to this 'we shall be seen and heard behaviour'?
dave the caveman Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 It's not as if youth culture has previously been perfect and it's just now going to shit. Parts of London and the rest of the country have been plagued by violence since I can remember. We also already know the root cause: greed. Both the media and the capitalist world are more than happy to promote harmful hiphop, gangster culture if it means making money, just as the Daily Mail is more than happy to put an unfair anti-islamic slant on their stories in order to make profit. Noone who has any influence cares enough about society to change this. They will keep promoting and keep selling whatever makes them the most money, and if society goes to shit as a result, they don't care. Then you've got the government who are well aware of this and should make drastic changes but won't because a) they would lose a lot of financial backing and b) the media would slam any proposals and easily convince the public that the politicians are trying to take away free speech or basic human rights. While we've got this circle where those who have enough influence to make the necessary changes won't because they are motivated only by profit, nothing will change, it will only get worse. But now is not the time to be reflecting pseudo-philosophically on our society, now is the time to teach these kids in no uncertain terms that the law is the law and it must be respected.
l444ry Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 You seriously believe any of the looters actually have jobs!?!? Don't know to be honest. But thanks for reinforcing my point!!
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