Jon the Hat Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 You're pissing in the wind until it all calms down, Nick. I’m disappointed by the some of the posts on here. It’s amazing how quick middle-class liberals can turn right-wing when their forty acres get threatened. Regardless of the reasons, and there are many, the Police need to get it under control - and quickly - or we all lose out.
Stevosevic Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 Do some people actually believe these riots are a protest against the government cuts?
broughtonblue Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 So hundreds of rioters have knicked telly's, don't they know it is illegal to watch them without a license! Fools
broughtonblue Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 So hundreds of rioters have knicked telly's, don't they know it is illegal to watch them without a license! Fools
Daggers Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 Ah yes. Fun times Not for the doll. It's never been so poked.
Master Fox Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 'I think we should just get them with a water gun...' I'm sure half the people I work with are less intelligent than the rioters Bring out the super soakers. Teach those bitches a lesson. Not for the doll. It's never been so poked.
Dylan Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8690416/London-riots-bleeding-boy-robbed-by-passers-by.html Watch the video on this link. Absolutely ****ing disgusting. People like this should be severely punished the low-life scum.
Christoph Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 This will all blow over in a week before it becomes another topic in some sort of panel show on channel 4 featuring jimmy carr. This will all blow over in a week before it becomes another topic in some sort of panel show on channel 4 featuring jimmy carr.
21st Century Fox Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 Saw this posted elsewhere. Punishing these rioters will obviously take them off the streets momentarily, but it will not change anything. Only understanding the deep roots, reasons and causes behind this behaviour will help us to make sure it don’t happen again. And ...it’s only then that we can work out how to progress so this doesn’t happen again.These rioters/looters/thugs whatever you want to call them didn’t just suddenly appear from another planet, they have grown up in this system and have been deluded enough by this system to think that this kind of destructive behaviour is ‘ok’ and even ‘worthwhile’. Why? These people feel so disconnected from their communities that they have no sense of belonging, no sense of pride for their surroundings or others around them. And this is a state of mind that has been compounded through recent generations having no purposeful contact with their community. The latest government cuts to youth clubs and the other few remaining ties people have had with their communities have driven this in. These are the people in our society that have been continually ostracised by those around them, only given support from other equally ostracised people and therefor form gangs. Everyone in these gangs coming from a similar background, so a sense of no respect for other people or their property takes hold. This is not a party political problem. This is a problem with its routes lying deep in our social system. The gap between the poor and the rich is getting bigger every day. The lack of democracy is increasing everyday. Unemployment is rising everyday. Our education and health system is being drained of all funding so we can instead bomb people in far off lands, people who have their own problems. This rioting behaviour needs to be combated carefully, thoroughly and thoughtfully. The answer lies not with more police, more laws, more fear and certainly not with the army; it needs to be combatted with more democracy, more equality, more education, more community! Now i hope Cameron will be returning from sunning himself in Tuscany this morning to offer similar solutions, but the realist in me is thinking it will be… the continuing criminalisation of protest (as the media begins to blur peaceful protest with thuggery) increased media fear mongering, i.d. cards, asbos, DNA databases, more ostracism, more racism, more fascism. Our hearts go out to those robbed, hurt, and those that had property destroyed/burnt. But also, hearts go out to those that have been made so shockingly un-sane by our society, the lack of support and education and love given to them that they feel it’s worthwhile and acceptable to go out and destroy peoples livelihoods and hurt other human beings.
SOCCERROO FOX Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 This is massive news overhere as well pretty disgusting the police just seem powerless or outnumbered one of the two.
Nick Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 You're pissing in the wind until it all calms down, Nick. I'm disappointed by the some of the posts on here. It's amazing how quick middle-class liberals can turn right-wing when their forty acres get threatened. Yeah, it's true - though the same with all victims of crime. People act differently when cornered. Independent services to make judgement on situations like Probation, YOT's, etc are there because we all know when 'ones own' are threatened, people don't make the same judgements when the 'emotional' is an added factor. "I don't believe in violence...... but if anybody came into my house whilst my kids were sleeping, I would gra......... , then sm......... , get a knif..........., then crap on their dea........, etc........, etc.......... Proportionality goes out of the window.
Phube Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 Can't we just call this thread the "JD Sports/Currys riots".
Daggers Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 Can't we just call this thread the "JD Sports/Currys riots". There's a curry riot going on with my arse today.
MC Prussian Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 Saw this posted elsewhere. I agree that all of the components mentioned in said report CAN lead to unrest, but they still don't excuse violence aimed at innocent bystanders, demolishing property, setting fire to stores of decent owners who're trying hard to make their own living. It's just very easy to start putting the blame on some vague construct like society. It's not just the closure of youth clubs or the lack of jobs. It's the lack of love and a blatant lack of respect shown by these rioters towards everyone and everything. They don't have values, they can't appreciate the good things in life because many of them have been told in the years of their upbringing that everyone else around them is against them (which is a blatant lie). You can blame it on society. Or maybe the lack of education (both in school or at home). Or maybe it's all rooted in family issues. The one source of constant struggle (est. when humanity first started out). How many young chavs have never been taught to read? How many of them can do simple maths other than "this is mine" and "you're not getting any". If these young lads had ever been taught respect and self-awareness, positivity and the likes, there would be no riots. The comments made by those three 17-year old girls that I just heard on the BBC were truly sickening. They were just in for the "fun" and to "show off to the police", targeting "rich people" (store owners) just because they were "rich". I mean, I'm a rather understanding guy, I have a certain social awareness and I love to listen. But condoning those acts of violence whilst sipping on a stolen bottle of rosé all day (like these girls were doing) has me wishing someone would put them out of their misery and finally end this downward spiral of stupidity.
Koke Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 The Turks defend their shops and businesses in east London. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2011/aug/09/london-riots-london
ScouseFox Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 I'm a "youth" and my ema has been cut and I have none whatsoever over the summer, and my old local shut down the other week, but I'm aware that doesn't give me the right to smash the fvck out of our country. These people are just ******.
Daggers Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 So hundreds of rioters have knicked telly's, don't they know it is illegal to watch them without a license! Fools
Dr The Singh Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 There's a curry riot going on with my arse today. Nothing new, i've had plenty of riots in your arse, it's been a haven for arse bandits!!
Daggers Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 Hands up how many people feel that pulling coppers into London from the counties is simply going to spark a free-for-all frenzy outside of the capital tonight?
Guest Bilo Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 Agreed. But there are socio political questions to be asked around "How did we get here?" "How did this become cool, normal, justified in the minds of young people?" Where are the ethics, values and the morals? I'm not attempting to provide excuses, far from it - answers though, this has happened and what causation factors exacerbated and motivated the behaviour and how did it get there and at what point could intervention have prevented this situation - if any? Come on Bilo - you know it's more complicated than 'one-upmanship' The immediate motives in the minds of the rioters probably are no more complicated than that, but the more deeply ingrained societal causes go back years, perhaps even decades. I don't think any reasonable person doubts that, myself included. Some have been quick to blame to the current government, but the erosion of ethics, values and morals has been as slow and certain as coastal erosion and we now stand on a precipice. Talk of going heavy handed will offer only a very brief solution and most probably exacerbate the problems in the long term if we as a society don't address the problems that caused the riots. It wasn't just the shooting of Mark Duggan that started this ball rolling after all. We can start by beginning to offer answers to the question you've asked. 'How did this become cool, normal, justified in the minds of young people?' Firstly, it is an uncomfortable reality for society that a significant number of the rioters are from ethnic minorities. This discomfort though is not exclusive to those communities, but to society at large. These people are marginalised in society, beginning from an early age. It's a documented fact that black male pupils begin to fall behind their white classmates around the time of starting secondary school, and this is one of the ingredients in a truly poisonous cocktail that we absolutely must address. Why do so many black teenagers fall off the rails? Whatever the answer, it leads to black boys leaving school less qualified than their white classmates; which in turn leads to higher levels of unemployment which leads to higher levels of crime and a higher chance of winding up in prison, as I'm sure you will be aware. Preventative measures then must begin early. We must address the question of why so many black teenagers tend to end their school days badly, what is it about our culture that devalues education so much? Firstly, the media has much to answer for. We are living in the first generation where you can become famous not for any real talent or excellence, but simply for its own sake. When as a teenager living in a sink estate or decrepit flat you can switch on your TV on any given day and see the 'stars' of shows such as The Only Way is Essex become famous despite having little discernible talent, would you not see your enthusiasm to work hard on your homework decline a tad when you're led to believe that you're but one audition away and acting like a complete tool from fame, wealth and adulation? I'm reminded of an essay by Alan Sillitoe where he states that poor people learn to live in the here and now, they want immediate relief from their situation. Three years is a long way away when you live from day to day hovering above the breadline, and this may well account for the declining enjoyment and prioritisation of education for some. They may not listen to their parents because they think, 'where did working hard at school get you mum?' When we extend this to black people, we may also wonder where they get their inspiration from. There is no British Obama, there is a dearth of articulate, intelligent black Britons in public life. When we think of successful black Britons, we think of sports personalities, dancers and musicians. David Lammy and Diane Abbott are but a very small number of British black people in any position of power. Furthermore on the issue of education, I believe the portrayal of black Britons is very flawed. Most kids get two main representations of black people in British history; slavery and post World War Two migration. They aren't taught about the contribution black Britons have made to our society over history, they aren't taught that the black presence in Britain goes right back to the times when Roman garrisons had North African divisions on British soil. Even in a footballing sense, if you were to ask most children when the first British black footballer plied his trade they would probably answer the 1970s. They wouldn't have a clue that a Walter Tull played for Tottenham in the 1900s and became the first black officer in the British army before his death at the Somme, or that Scotland had a black goalkeeper in the Edwardian era. Black people in the British school system are on the margins, either passive victims in slavery or violent rioters in the latter half of the 20th century. The number of black secondary teachers is low, the number of black university lecturers lower still. Is it any wonder that black people feel marginalised by the school system? So for black kids who feel marginalised by the school system and ruin their education, can't get a job because they're unqualified and have no real outstanding skill, where do they turn for role models? Traditionally, it would have been the family. Increasingly, it's becoming 'gangsta' culture. Make no mistake, when we see a white person who thinks they're black, it's almost always a cringeworthy gangsta impersonation complete with 'bwoys' and 'blud,' a thoroughly negative interpretation of black people. They see people not unlike them making their parent's monthly salary in a week for very little effort and earning 'respect,' which is actually fear, from the whole community and they run with that lifestyle. This in turn leads to conflict with the authorities which feeds the notion of racism in the black person's mind which leads to the kind of anger we've seen poured out on the streets of London. The cure for all this? I hate to quote Tony Blair, but it really is 'education, education, education.'
ScouseFox Posted 9 August 2011 Posted 9 August 2011 Luckily nothing's come down my way in Liverpool, just hanging around Toxteth apparently. I'm need to go into town later so I'll see if anything's actually that bad. Hope not. What's going on in Bristol/Nottingham etc? Just more of the same?
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