Tottenham and other disturbances / riots

[Tommy G]

Is this still going on during the day or stopped now?

[FeedTheYakLCFC]

Anyone think it will affect our game on saturday?

[Corky]

If Webbo was Mod none of this would've happened.

[Zingari]

Anyone think it will affect our game on saturday?

not unless any of the players need new boots from JD Sports

[Daggers]

Some have been quick to blame to the current government...

And some of us relate it to previous policies...

[Wycombe Fox]

Police officers from Hampshire and the Isle of Wight have been drafted in to support the Metropolitan Police after the rioting in London last night (Monday).

A Hampshire police spokesperson confirmed 23 officers have been deployed to the capital, but insisted that policing on the Isle of Wight would not be affected.

The spokesman also added there have been no incidents related to the riots in London across Hampshire and the Isle of Wight.

This is bad news - we only have three police officers anyway.

Cue rioting on the Isle of Wight

[Libertine]

Confirmed that a man has died from a gunshot wound.

[Guest Bilo]

And some of us relate it to previous policies...

Her administration has much to do with the marginalisation of the working classes, but I chose not to include her in my rant because I really couldn't be arsed with the inevitable eye rolling.

[MPH]

My point was that the riots were caused by over violent police in the first place.

err no. shooting an armed man who was advanving towards them is over violent? " don't worry mate yeah just shoot me... i woldnt want to be over violent and defend myself".

Even if they were over violent and he wasnt armed...If you have a problem with the police you take it out on the police. you dont take it out on innocent shop owners just trying to make a living and provide for their family Not a shred of credability can go towards the rioters and looters if this is what they are doing

Agreed. But there are socio political questions to be asked around "How did we get here?"

"How did this become cool, normal, justified in the minds of young people?"

Where are the ethics, values and the morals?

I'm not attempting to provide excuses, far from it - answers though, this has happened and what causation factors exacerbated and motivated the behaviour and how did it get there and at what point could intervention have prevented this situation - if any?

Come on Bilo - you know it's more complicated than 'one-upmanship'

actually think you are being way too kind here... you are suggesting their is a thought process going on inside their brain... but i do see what you are getting at...

[MC Prussian]

It wouldn't surprise me if all this was based on careful planning by some anarchist cells...

I already thought the same following the troubles in Vancouver after the Stanley Cup Finals.

[David Lowe]

Anyone think it will affect our game on saturday?

It certainly could do. With the riots spreading across the country, there must be a good chance of Leicester becoming involved.

[MC Prussian]

This is bad news - we only have three police officers anyway.

Cue rioting on the Isle of Wight

Does it have a JD?

[FeedTheYakLCFC]

Rumours circulating that riots are due to start in Leicester on friday hope this isnt true but it would then surely put the home game against Reading in doubt?

[I am Rod Hull]

Storm in a tea cup compared to the 80`s riots which were far worse than the opportunistic mob theft fest of today...

Lets hope it does not escalate into anything like we saw back then...

e.g. the decapitation of P.C Blakelock with a machete...

16,000 fuzz in the capital tonight, by the way...

[I am Rod Hull]

Rumours circulating that riots are due to start in Leicester on friday hope this isnt true but it would then surely put the home game against Reading in doubt?

Yeah ! fook everything but the footie...

[Guest Bilo]

16,000 fuzz in the capital tonight, by the way...

That's more than Coventry get at home. Quick, give em tickets.

[Guest MattP]

Been down there for the last couple of days very very sad.

Politics shouldnt even be talked about in this, it has absolutely nothing to do with it, its theft, violence and people realised they could steal what they wanted for an hour and get away with it. The sad thing is they all seemed to be under 16.

That said London really is a dump now, dont be surprised if you fill a city will shit it end s up looking like a sewer.

[Nick]

The immediate motives in the minds of the rioters probably are no more complicated than that, but the more deeply ingrained societal causes go back years, perhaps even decades. I don't think any reasonable person doubts that, myself included.

Some have been quick to blame to the current government, but the erosion of ethics, values and morals has been as slow and certain as coastal erosion and we now stand on a precipice. Talk of going heavy handed will offer only a very brief solution and most probably exacerbate the problems in the long term if we as a society don't address the problems that caused the riots. It wasn't just the shooting of Mark Duggan that started this ball rolling after all. We can start by beginning to offer answers to the question you've asked.

'How did this become cool, normal, justified in the minds of young people?'

Firstly, it is an uncomfortable reality for society that a significant number of the rioters are from ethnic minorities. This discomfort though is not exclusive to those communities, but to society at large. These people are marginalised in society, beginning from an early age. It's a documented fact that black male pupils begin to fall behind their white classmates around the time of starting secondary school, and this is one of the ingredients in a truly poisonous cocktail that we absolutely must address. Why do so many black teenagers fall off the rails? Whatever the answer, it leads to black boys leaving school less qualified than their white classmates; which in turn leads to higher levels of unemployment which leads to higher levels of crime and a higher chance of winding up in prison, as I'm sure you will be aware.

Preventative measures then must begin early. We must address the question of why so many black teenagers tend to end their school days badly, what is it about our culture that devalues education so much? Firstly, the media has much to answer for. We are living in the first generation where you can become famous not for any real talent or excellence, but simply for its own sake. When as a teenager living in a sink estate or decrepit flat you can switch on your TV on any given day and see the 'stars' of shows such as The Only Way is Essex become famous despite having little discernible talent, would you not see your enthusiasm to work hard on your homework decline a tad when you're led to believe that you're but one audition away and acting like a complete tool from fame, wealth and adulation? I'm reminded of an essay by Alan Sillitoe where he states that poor people learn to live in the here and now, they want immediate relief from their situation. Three years is a long way away when you live from day to day hovering above the breadline, and this may well account for the declining enjoyment and prioritisation of education for some. They may not listen to their parents because they think, 'where did working hard at school get you mum?'

When we extend this to black people, we may also wonder where they get their inspiration from. There is no British Obama, there is a dearth of articulate, intelligent black Britons in public life. When we think of successful black Britons, we think of sports personalities, dancers and musicians. David Lammy and Diane Abbott are but a very small number of British black people in any position of power. Furthermore on the issue of education, I believe the portrayal of black Britons is very flawed. Most kids get two main representations of black people in British history; slavery and post World War Two migration. They aren't taught about the contribution black Britons have made to our society over history, they aren't taught that the black presence in Britain goes right back to the times when Roman garrisons had North African divisions on British soil. Even in a footballing sense, if you were to ask most children when the first British black footballer plied his trade they would probably answer the 1970s. They wouldn't have a clue that a Walter Tull played for Tottenham in the 1900s and became the first black officer in the British army before his death at the Somme, or that Scotland had a black goalkeeper in the Edwardian era. Black people in the British school system are on the margins, either passive victims in slavery or violent rioters in the latter half of the 20th century. The number of black secondary teachers is low, the number of black university lecturers lower still. Is it any wonder that black people feel marginalised by the school system?

So for black kids who feel marginalised by the school system and ruin their education, can't get a job because they're unqualified and have no real outstanding skill, where do they turn for role models? Traditionally, it would have been the family. Increasingly, it's becoming 'gangsta' culture. Make no mistake, when we see a white person who thinks they're black, it's almost always a cringeworthy gangsta impersonation complete with 'bwoys' and 'blud,' a thoroughly negative interpretation of black people. They see people not unlike them making their parent's monthly salary in a week for very little effort and earning 'respect,' which is actually fear, from the whole community and they run with that lifestyle. This in turn leads to conflict with the authorities which feeds the notion of racism in the black person's mind which leads to the kind of anger we've seen poured out on the streets of London.

The cure for all this? I hate to quote Tony Blair, but it really is 'education, education, education.'

Now that my friend is the standard I expect from you - fall below again and I'll chop your balls off.

Wrong thread, sorry.

[Guest Bilo]

Now that my friend is the standard I expect from you - fall below again and I'll chop your balls off.

Wrong thread, sorry.

I made a half intelligent post, I feel dirty.

Amazing what you can do when you're bored at work.

[Nick]

Been down there for the last couple of days very very sad.

Politics shouldnt even be talked about in this, it has absolutely nothing to do with it, its theft, violence and people realised they could steal what they wanted for an hour and get away with it. The sad thing is they all seemed to be under 16.

That said London really is a dump now, dont be surprised if you fill a city will shit it end s up looking like a sewer.

Yeah Matt but what we are saying is the preparedness to commit these acts is socio political and has been brewing for a long time.

It's not simply because 'the place is full of shit' - I'd also like to know what you meant by that.

[l444ry]

Looting is a fundamental political act. The people doing the actual looting may not be acting through political motivation, but the act of looting is highly political.

Looting is THE MOST IMPORTANT political act, because looting is exactly what happens when people believe (rightly or wrongly) that the laws no longer apply to them.

Looting is an exact analogy to the Newspaper publisher who ignores the rules because the regulator is completely toothless and the lawmakers are in the back pocket. Looting is the hedge fund manager killing a currency, or the shareholder closing a factory. Looting is exactly the same as the MP who writes his own expense claim, because there is no-one there to check. Looting is the same as the millionaire footballer who thinks his bank account gives him the right to spit roast his way across Europe or the property developer who rips the heart of a city because he can.

Looting is the population’s way of saying ‘there is no such thing as society’. What is that young guy doing with a plasma screen under his arm? He could never acquire that from working down Tescos, so he has waited for an opportunity and when the rules no longer apply to him and the prevailing culture has liberalised the property laws he has acted in his own self interest and to **** with everyone else. Isn’t that EXACTLY what we have been saying to everyone else? The only difference is that ‘we’ removed the rules willingly.

Looting is what happens when you replace rules with ‘voluntary codes of conduct’, ‘light touch, self regelation’ and Government getting out of the way.

[Nick]

I made a half intelligent post, I feel dirty.

Amazing what you can do when you're bored at work.

You work?

Shit, congratulations, I had no idea.

Looting is a fundamental political act. The people doing the actual looting may not be acting through political motivation, but the act of looting is highly political.

Looting is THE MOST IMPORTANT political act, because looting is exactly what happens when people believe (rightly or wrongly) that the laws no longer apply to them.

Looting is an exact analogy to the Newspaper publisher who ignores the rules because the regulator is completely toothless and the lawmakers are in the back pocket. Looting is the hedge fund manager killing a currency, or the shareholder closing a factory. Looting is exactly the same as the MP who writes his own expense claim, because there is no-one there to check. Looting is the same as the millionaire footballer who thinks his bank account gives him the right to spit roast his way across Europe or the property developer who rips the heart of a city because he can.

Looting is the population's way of saying 'there is no such thing as society'. What is that young guy doing with a plasma screen under his arm? He could never acquire that from working down Tescos, so he has waited for an opportunity and when the rules no longer apply to him and the prevailing culture has liberalised the property laws he has acted in his own self interest and to **** with everyone else. Isn't that EXACTLY what we have been saying to everyone else? The only difference is that 'we' removed the rules willingly.

Looting is what happens when you replace rules with 'voluntary codes of conduct', 'light touch, self regelation' and Government getting out of the way.

[Aleksz]

Hi im a youth from London and smashing up windows was my idea..

[Bugg]

[Nick]

Hi im a youth from London and smashing up windows was my idea..

Are you on a horse?