Col city fan Posted 15 July 2012 Share Posted 15 July 2012 see previous posts regarding ambition (or lack thereof) Over ambition can be bitter sweet. Just recall the start of last season when we were made bookies faves and this forum was full of hope and optimism. If my memory is correct, many on here were predicting a top two finish. Sven and the board spent (wasted) a fortune... Allegedly spending much more than any other Championship club. It became clear that instant success was the dish of the day. The rest, as they say, is history. Sven sacked, The Mills debacle and continuing to pay the wages of a player who, it was clear, couldn't get fit. This pre season feels different. Pearson is saving, not spending, the atmosphere is one of caution, not expectation. This approach, for me, is the right one. Pearson, it would appear, has to rectify the ridiculous wage bill. For this reason more than any, I still won't be at all surprised if we try to offload Beckford. Nigel wants to fashion his own team and is looking initially at youth to be developed. I personally remain torn however.. Just a quick glimpse at the players available on a free transfer currently would suggest there are some players we could acquire who are better than some of our current squad. I maintain a couple of really good, seasoned pros at the level would help to develop the ones we have brought in and to compete for places. But I'm not the boss, and Rome was not built ( or is it 'rebuilt' ) in a day. I'm far more in favour of this cautious approach than Svens gung-ho, shit or bust manner because it is financially prudent and could help to bring longer term stability and success for the club. I don't believe that Pearson is an unambituous manager, just a prudent one at a time where it would seem he is having to be. Don't continue beating the same drum mate. Look at the circumstances in play at present and consider why the manager is doing what he is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Agnew Posted 15 July 2012 Share Posted 15 July 2012 I think the owners will be patient with Pearson, he would have been clear about this during the interview process. I think the more pertinent question to ask is how many games they will give him in the Premiership, before getting a higher profile replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seenitall Posted 15 July 2012 Share Posted 15 July 2012 I think the owners will be patient with Pearson, he would have been clear about this during the interview process. I think the more pertinent question to ask is how many games they will give him in the Premiership, before getting a higher profile replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 15 July 2012 Share Posted 15 July 2012 I always fail to see the logic in 'how many games'. Surely you either agree with a managers philosophy or you don't? If you believe in their philosophy you will wait until the squad take to it fully, if you believe only in results then you will hire and fire with alarming regularity. I do not and have never agreed with Pearson's philosophy so the amount of games he is given is largely irrelevant to me. We could win the league and I'd still not want him in charge, I don't care if we win or lose under his tenure (though obviously lots of defeats could have a detrimental affect) I simply do not enjoy watching a Pearson team much in the same way I never enjoyed watching a Mickey Adams team (Trevor Benjamin and Scowcoft on the wing so we could hit long diagonal balls). I enjoyed watching us under McGhee and I enjoyed watching us under perform with Sven. I even enjoyed watching us under Sousa (Portsmouth aside). I have seldom enjoyed watching us under Pearson. I see philosophy as a question of ambition, I don't simply want to win, I want to win properly (i.e. playing passing football). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_w Posted 15 July 2012 Share Posted 15 July 2012 This season? 46 (Cup games don't count ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCFC_FAN_1995 Posted 15 July 2012 Share Posted 15 July 2012 Oh btw, how can you even judge Vardy when you haven't seen him play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetintedspecs Posted 15 July 2012 Share Posted 15 July 2012 Fox 92 summed things up eloquently....excellent post! patience will pay dividends imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seenitall Posted 15 July 2012 Share Posted 15 July 2012 Oh btw, how can you even judge Vardy when you haven't seen him play? Nige did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox92 Posted 15 July 2012 Share Posted 15 July 2012 Nige did But Nige isn't writing him off already (especially considering Vardy hasn't even played for Leicester yet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep blue Posted 15 July 2012 Share Posted 15 July 2012 Fox 92 summed things up eloquently....excellent post! patience will pay dividends imo. Agreed. Sven left such a mess that it needs total reconstruction to put it right. Pearson is the man to do this the right way, starting from scratch and developing his squad in a methodical way. Because of this, even though setting targets is not an ideal thing to do, I think that realistically it's a 2-year project (though we may get lucky and achieve it next season). If I were the Thais I would be extremely reluctant to consider sacking Pearson before the 2 years are up, and would do so only under the most dire of circumstances, e.g. November time if we had a Sousa-like start to the season, or end of this season if we didn't get at least very close to play-offs. Constant change has been our undoing. As Fox92 says - look at Reading's start to last season - and look at the fact that teams who build patiently have had the most success in recent years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seenitall Posted 15 July 2012 Share Posted 15 July 2012 Agreed. Sven left such a mess that it needs total reconstruction to put it right. Pearson is the man to do this the right way, starting from scratch and developing his squad in a methodical way. Because of this, even though setting targets is not an ideal thing to do, I think that realistically it's a 2-year project (though we may get lucky and achieve it next season). If I were the Thais I would be extremely reluctant to consider sacking Pearson before the 2 years are up, and would do so only under the most dire of circumstances, e.g. November time if we had a Sousa-like start to the season, or end of this season if we didn't get at least very close to play-offs. Constant change has been our undoing. As Fox92 says - look at Reading's start to last season - and look at the fact that teams who build patiently have had the most success in recent years. Name one - see previous posts about high impact of Rodgers, Adkins, Lambert, Jones at Shef Weds, O Neill here and at Sunderland - you are making the facts fit your argument but they are wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCFC_FAN_1995 Posted 15 July 2012 Share Posted 15 July 2012 Nige did Yes and that's why he's brought him, but to say he's not good enough even though you've not seen him in action is stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seenitall Posted 15 July 2012 Share Posted 15 July 2012 Are you an idiot? You're basically saying he can't step up. No, I'm saying Nige signed him for a million without knowing if he can play at this level or even seeing him play in the flesh - unless he was at Fleetwood's games last year and his stunt double was at our games - wait a minute, this could explain the shite tactical decisions for 30 odd games!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_w Posted 15 July 2012 Share Posted 15 July 2012 Name one - see previous posts about high impact of Rodgers, Adkins, Lambert, Jones at Shef Weds, O Neill here and at Sunderland - you are making the facts fit your argument but they are wrong As Fox92 says - look at Reading's start to last season - and look at the fact that teams who build patiently have had the most success in recent years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Fox Posted 15 July 2012 Share Posted 15 July 2012 I always fail to see the logic in 'how many games'. Surely you either agree with a managers philosophy or you don't? If you believe in their philosophy you will wait until the squad take to it fully, if you believe only in results then you will hire and fire with alarming regularity. I do not and have never agreed with Pearson's philosophy so the amount of games he is given is largely irrelevant to me. We could win the league and I'd still not want him in charge, I don't care if we win or lose under his tenure (though obviously lots of defeats could have a detrimental affect) I simply do not enjoy watching a Pearson team much in the same way I never enjoyed watching a Mickey Adams team (Trevor Benjamin and Scowcoft on the wing so we could hit long diagonal balls). I enjoyed watching us under McGhee and I enjoyed watching us under perform with Sven. I even enjoyed watching us under Sousa (Portsmouth aside). I have seldom enjoyed watching us under Pearson. I see philosophy as a question of ambition, I don't simply want to win, I want to win properly (i.e. playing passing football). In a perfect world I'm sure all of our fans would love us to be as good as Barcelona, but unfortunately the world isn't perfect. I'm confident that the majority of fans would rather watch us win ugly than lose pretty. I certainly would, any day of the week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meadows Fox Posted 15 July 2012 Share Posted 15 July 2012 Name one - see previous posts about high impact of Rodgers, Adkins, Lambert, Jones at Shef Weds, O Neill here and at Sunderland - you are making the facts fit your argument but they are wrong Rodgers sacked by Reading, Adkins took Scunthorpe down, Jones sacked by Cardiff, all good managers, but have been through bad spells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCFC_FAN_1995 Posted 15 July 2012 Share Posted 15 July 2012 No, I'm saying Nige signed him for a million without knowing if he can play at this level or even seeing him play in the flesh - unless he was at Fleetwood's games last year and his stunt double was at our games - wait a minute, this could explain the shite tactical decisions for 30 odd games!! He wouldn't of signed him if he wasn't confident!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meadows Fox Posted 15 July 2012 Share Posted 15 July 2012 No, I'm saying Nige signed him for a million without knowing if he can play at this level or even seeing him play in the flesh - unless he was at Fleetwood's games last year and his stunt double was at our games - wait a minute, this could explain the shite tactical decisions for 30 odd games!! You seriously trying to say he wouldn't have watched Vardy before signing him? You haven't got a clue pal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleckneymike Posted 15 July 2012 Share Posted 15 July 2012 In a perfect world I'm sure all of our fans would love us to be as good as Barcelona, but unfortunately the world isn't perfect. I'm confident that the majority of fans would rather watch us win ugly than lose pretty. I certainly would, any day of the week! Why does everyone equate passing with Barcelona and therefore see it as the preserve of the elite? Likewise why is it assumed that you can either win ugly or lose pretty? WInning ugly seems ingrained in the psyche or the British football fan as the quickest and best way to play. We've just experienced the most mediocre decade in our history and for all but 18 months we've attempted to win ugly. That's nearly 8 and a half years of hoof and clog and it's got us nowhere. Tactically we're as innovative as General Melchitt and about as successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Fox Posted 15 July 2012 Share Posted 15 July 2012 Why does everyone equate passing with Barcelona and therefore see it as the preserve of the elite? Likewise why is it assumed that you can either win ugly or lose pretty? WInning ugly seems ingrained in the psyche or the British football fan as the quickest and best way to play. We've just experienced the most mediocre decade in our history and for all but 18 months we've attempted to win ugly. That's nearly 8 and a half years of hoof and clog and it's got us nowhere. Tactically we're as innovative as General Melchitt and about as successful. I think one of the reasons people equate passing with Barcelona is because they are one of the best teams at playing in that way. Therefore if we could have exactly what we wanted (perfection), we would chose to be the best passing team, not just a load of mediocre players pretending we are the best passing team, like we did under Sousa. I never said that there is a exact trade off between winning ugly and losing pretty, I simply said that I thought that the majority of our fans would opt for winning ugly if there were. How did we win the league cup twice under O'Neill? How did we get promoted under Adams? I don't recall it was all with slick passing, but at least we got results! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meadows Fox Posted 15 July 2012 Share Posted 15 July 2012 I think one of the reasons people equate passing with Barcelona is because they are one of the best teams at playing in that way. Therefore if we could have exactly what we wanted (perfection), we would chose to be the best passing team, not just a load of mediocre players pretending we are the best passing team, like we did under Sousa. I never said that there is a exact trade off between winning ugly and losing pretty, I simply said that I thought that the majority of our fans would opt for winning ugly if there were. How did we win the league cup twice under O'Neill? How did we get promoted under Adams? I don't recall it was all with slick passing, but at least we got results! Don't talk sense like this, apparently it was really enjoyable watching us play under Sousa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxfordfox83 Posted 15 July 2012 Share Posted 15 July 2012 I won't see it as backwards or sideways - but he hasn't done it yet and in the past 2 seasons has failed spectacularly to get in the play offs with 2 clubs Go on seenitall, I give up. Who do you really support? A Tree would be busy with Man City wet dreams and manager speculation, and I don't think Derby's on the Internet yet so... Cov? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_w Posted 15 July 2012 Share Posted 15 July 2012 Go on seenitall, I give up. Who do you really support? A Tree would be busy with Man City wet dreams and manager speculation, and I don't think Derby's on the Internet yet so... Cov? But Cov don't have any fans...? I reckon he's a bitter Dull fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seenitall Posted 15 July 2012 Share Posted 15 July 2012 But Cov don't have any fans...? I reckon he's a bitter Dull fan. More Hull worshippers on here than on their own board - I keep looking at their last 2 fantastic seasons and wishing I did support them they have been so great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_w Posted 15 July 2012 Share Posted 15 July 2012 No, I'm saying Nige signed him for a million without knowing if he can play at this level or even seeing him play in the flesh - unless he was at Fleetwood's games last year and his stunt double was at our games - wait a minute, this could explain the shite tactical decisions for 30 odd games!! . This is an amazing point of view. Your logic is that as a result of Nigel managing us he can't possibly have seen Vardy play and therefore we shouldn't have signed him. Brilliant. Maybe none of our managers should ever sign players because they haven't been to watch every non league game potential targets are in, as a result of them being too busy with all that managing us stuff. Forget about scouts, the manager should be responsible for watching all targets constantly despite their job of managing the team. Maybe we should get rid of the kit man, boot boy and catering staff as well, because if Nigel is too lazy to do those jobs he shouldn't be our manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.