Woolwich

[Rincewind]

You can't criticise him. Moose won't like it. He looks up to Cameron as a role model.

[MooseBreath]

What do you think the PM should be doing? It's not as if he can come out, name the enemy and start planning a response. Apparently these attacks are random, nothing to do with Islam, nothing we can do, it didn't really happen if we just say it didn't happen, move along now, don't use the "m" word. What can he do? He might as well be on holiday.

[purpleronnie]

I have to say I find it baffling all the attention the PM is being given just because he's on holiday.

 

weird.

[Captain...]

What do you think the PM should be doing? It's not as if he can come out, name the enemy and start planning a response. Apparently these attacks are random, nothing to do with Islam, nothing we can do, it didn't really happen if we just say it didn't happen, move along now, don't use the "m" word. What can he do? He might as well be on holiday.

Well Muslim leaders have been calling for a list of known banned speakers who have links to terrorism, the hate preachers and such, because sometimes they invite people to speak and find out after they are known activists, but the government refuse to publish this list.

Cameron could ensure that happens, or at least enter dialogue with the Muslim leaders. If this is, as some say, the greatest threat to national security and our freedoms, then he probably should be doing something. If it was a case of 2 isolated nutters acting alone then it probably doesn't matter if he has gone on holiday.

[Webbo]

Well Muslim leaders have been calling for a list of known banned speakers who have links to terrorism, the hate preachers and such, because sometimes they invite people to speak and find out after they are known activists, but the government refuse to publish this list.

Cameron could ensure that happens, or at least enter dialogue with the Muslim leaders. If this is, as some say, the greatest threat to national security and our freedoms, then he probably should be doing something. If it was a case of 2 isolated nutters acting alone then it probably doesn't matter if he has gone on holiday.

Really? Is he the only person who can do that?

[MooseBreath]

Well Muslim leaders have been calling for a list of known banned speakers who have links to terrorism, the hate preachers and such, because sometimes they invite people to speak and find out after they are known activists, but the government refuse to publish this list.

Cameron could ensure that happens, or at least enter dialogue with the Muslim leaders. If this is, as some say, the greatest threat to national security and our freedoms, then he probably should be doing something. If it was a case of 2 isolated nutters acting alone then it probably doesn't matter if he has gone on holiday.

 

I'd imagine our security services would be a little bit annoyed if the PM started handing out lists of everyone they were watching.

[Guest BlueBrett]

Well Muslim leaders have been calling for a list of known banned speakers who have links to terrorism, the hate preachers and such, because sometimes they invite people to speak and find out after they are known activists, but the government refuse to publish this list.

Cameron could ensure that happens, or at least enter dialogue with the Muslim leaders. If this is, as some say, the greatest threat to national security and our freedoms, then he probably should be doing something. If it was a case of 2 isolated nutters acting alone then it probably doesn't matter if he has gone on holiday.

The greatest threat to our freedoms is not terrorism. The greatest risk is that our own government take advantage of events like these to pass restrictive or intrusive laws in the name of 'national security'. There are hundreds of historical precedents for this kind of thing and the reemergence of the 'snooper's charter' may well be the thin end of the wedge.

[Zingari]

The greatest threat to our freedoms is not terrorism. The greatest risk is that our own government take advantage of events like these to pass restrictive or intrusive laws in the name of 'national security'. There are hundreds of historical precedents for this kind of thing and the reemergence of the 'snooper's charter' may well be the thin end of the wedge.

 

Totally agree . It's the fookin oldest trick in the book and we fall  every time 

[RonnieTodger]

Pardon my ignorance, but does anybody know if Lee Rigby was individually targetted, or just because they'd spotted him leaving the barracks? I'm not sure which is a scarier thought.

[Captain...]

Really? Is he the only person who can do that?

 

Probably not, but I would assume he would want to be involved.

 

I'd imagine our security services would be a little bit annoyed if the PM started handing out lists of everyone they were watching.

 

I'm beginning to wonder if you can actually read, I'm talking about a list of people openly preaching hate, not everyone that is being watched, but those that are known to be trying to corrupt Muslims, and turn them down an extremist path. Some of them are well known, but not all are, I appreciate that you may be in danger of pushing them underground, but surely it is better to limit their audience and prevent them from getting involved with the decent Muslim communities, but if they don't know who these people are, they can't do anything about it.

 

If we know of hate preachers, then we should cut off their voice, include what they say as part of inciting racial hatred, and make it illegal, (another thing Cameron could be pushing through) it is not going to solve all problems as the Woolwich murderers were reported to have been radicalised online, but it would be a start. But as I said before, they may not be breaking the law, they may just be dressing up the facts, but you can't stop someone speaking the truth, but if they are suspected to be involved in recruiting terrorists they could release a list and let the decent Muslim leaders make the call, no laws have changed, no body has been arrested, but the audience has been reduced.

[anotherharboroughfox]

Bill Hicks â€@Bill_Hicks_RIP9m

@frankieboyle Two EDL did nazi salutes at London demo. EDL now saying they shouldn't be tarred with same brush as 2 idiots. Irony overload!

 

 

   

[MooseBreath]

Probably not, but I would assume he would want to be involved.

 

 

I'm beginning to wonder if you can actually read, I'm talking about a list of people openly preaching hate, not everyone that is being watched, but those that are known to be trying to corrupt Muslims, and turn them down an extremist path. Some of them are well known, but not all are, I appreciate that you may be in danger of pushing them underground, but surely it is better to limit their audience and prevent them from getting involved with the decent Muslim communities, but if they don't know who these people are, they can't do anything about it.

 

If we know of hate preachers, then we should cut off their voice, include what they say as part of inciting racial hatred, and make it illegal, (another thing Cameron could be pushing through) it is not going to solve all problems as the Woolwich murderers were reported to have been radicalised online, but it would be a start. But as I said before, they may not be breaking the law, they may just be dressing up the facts, but you can't stop someone speaking the truth, but if they are suspected to be involved in recruiting terrorists they could release a list and let the decent Muslim leaders make the call, no laws have changed, no body has been arrested, but the audience has been reduced.

I don't believe you're anywhere near as naive as this. Your agenda continues to be very creepy indeed.

[Guest MattP]

People can talk about whatever laws they want for locking up hate preachers. You wont be able to implement any of them while you are in the EU.

[Captain...]

I don't believe you're anywhere near as naive as this. Your agenda continues to be very creepy indeed.

 

That is 3 times you have questioned my agenda now, I'm not sure what you think I am trying to do, you are clearly incapable of having any sort of debate, I'm guessing it is due to the fact that you are so entrenched in your own point of view that you can't see beyond your limited outlook. Part of my "agenda" is to not let people spread malicious lies and hatred and stir up feelings which are in my opinion very dangerous and more likely to cause more tension and thus more attacks.

 

But the main part of my agenda is to actually have a reasoned and informed debate about very important current affairs. 

 

So if you can have a serious debate then I am referring specifically to this:

 

 Conservative Muslims have urged the government to go further and publish its own official list of speakers that it believes universities should not allow.

Mohammed Amin, vice-chair of the Conservative Muslim forum yesterday urged the faiths minister, Lady Warsi, to consider publishing a list of the proscribed preachers.

Amin said: "Too many times institutions say they would have banned someone if they had known about their background, but by then it is too late. Only government has the resources to publish this list and to be free of the threat of legal action. If someone objected to being on the list they could appeal. It is not illiberal."

 

Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/24/woolwich-killing-universities-campaign-radicalisation

 

Please tell me what is naive about that, or even add an informed comment.

 

If you are not capable of doing that and want to resort to insults then don't bother replying.

[MooseBreath]

Muslim prisoners captured and tortured a British prison guard at Full Sutton yesterday afternoon.

It continues...

[Guest MattP]

Muslim prisoners captured and tortured a British prison guard at Full Sutton yesterday afternoon.

It continues...

 

Doesn't give much hope to the earlier quotes that these people will be living in fear in prison does it?

[I am Rod Hull]

Muslim prisoners captured and tortured a British prison guard at Full Sutton yesterday afternoon.

It continues...

 

From what I`v heard they did it as a protest concerning the lack of protection they were getting from other inmates, that by all accounts were going to give them a good hiding.

[Guest MattP]

From what I`v heard they did it as a protest concerning the lack of protection they were getting from other inmates, that by all accounts were going to give them a good hiding.

 

What a good idea that is.

[Bayfox]

From what I`v heard they did it as a protest concerning the lack of protection they were getting from other inmates, that by all accounts were going to give them a good hiding.

Is that the same lack of protection the general public get from complete nut jobs?

And how ironic. We are in prison and getting no protection. Don't commit a ****ing crime in the 1st place then.

[Danizen]

I have to say I find it baffling all the attention the PM is being given just because he's on holiday.

 

weird.

It's because people are being told to be angry by The Sun.

Fooking mindless plebs.

[Webbo]

why would the MI5 try to contact him or setup a meeting with him weird.

Assuming it's true it's not weird at all. They were trying to recruit him to spy on the other nutters.

[whoareyaaa]

Assuming it's true it's not weird at all. They were trying to recruit him to spy on the other nutters.

 

Yep just watched the full report hence the edit.

[Captain...]

Muslim prisoners captured and tortured a British prison guard at Full Sutton yesterday afternoon.

It continues...

 

Where are you getting tortured from? I can't see tortured in any news article I've read, even the Mail, scant on actual facts, doesn't use the word tortured:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2331919/Terror-police-called-prison-warder-held-hostage-Muslim-inmates.html

 

And despite claiming in the headline: captive told he was 'going to die and have toilet cleaner poured in his eyes'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2331919/Terror-police-called-prison-warder-held-hostage-Muslim-inmates.html#ixzz2Ud3l0vCe 

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

They fail to mention that in the article or give a source, and as no other news site mentions torture, I'm not sure where you got it from, I know that you would never use emotive words to stir up feelings, so if you can provide the source it would be nice.

 

As for, 'it continues', what continues exactly? Did they behead him while he was being held hostage? Did they shout Allah Akbar and ask people to record their hate filled lies? Where they even imprisoned for terrorist acts?

 

What has continued, other than reactionaries bringing religion into something before the facts come out and equating it with this whole Bad Islam rhetoric?

 

Finally, you take away the rhetoric and the Islamaphobia, what you are left with is some people, already in a maximum security, so clearly dangerous criminals, attacked a prison guard. Oh but they were Muslim, so it is clearly a threat to our national security that these dangerous criminals are in a maximum security prison, and is linked to a man getting beheaded in the street and the 'rising threat of Islam'.

 

If the facts turn out that I am wrong, and they were somehow directly connected to the killing in Woolwich and Muslim paedophile gangs, I will retract that, but as the full facts aren't released yet I will not be jumping to conclusions.

[flowwolf]

Where are you getting tortured from? I can't see tortured in any news article I've read, even the Mail, scant on actual facts, doesn't use the word tortured:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2331919/Terror-police-called-prison-warder-held-hostage-Muslim-inmates.html

 

And despite claiming in the headline: captive told he was 'going to die and have toilet cleaner poured in his eyes'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2331919/Terror-police-called-prison-warder-held-hostage-Muslim-inmates.html#ixzz2Ud3l0vCe 

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

They fail to mention that in the article or give a source, and as no other news site mentions torture, I'm not sure where you got it from, I know that you would never use emotive words to stir up feelings, so if you can provide the source it would be nice.

 

As for, 'it continues', what continues exactly? Did they behead him while he was being held hostage? Did they shout Allah Akbar and ask people to record their hate filled lies? Where they even imprisoned for terrorist acts?

 

What has continued, other than reactionaries bringing religion into something before the facts come out and equating it with this whole Bad Islam rhetoric?

 

Finally, you take away the rhetoric and the Islamaphobia, what you are left with is some people, already in a maximum security, so clearly dangerous criminals, attacked a prison guard. Oh but they were Muslim, so it is clearly a threat to our national security that these dangerous criminals are in a maximum security prison, and is linked to a man getting beheaded in the street and the 'rising threat of Islam'.

 

If the facts turn out that I am wrong, and they were somehow directly connected to the killing in Woolwich and Muslim paedophile gangs, I will retract that, but as the full facts aren't released yet I will not be jumping to conclusions.

 

 

Well time will tell but what is happening now has been simmering under the surfice of our society. There comes a point when people are forced to admit that we have a problem in our society from one particular group, and we have admit that group comes from a particular religion ie Islam.

 

Was it the jews who did the bombing on 7/7 ? was it the christians who ran down a defenseless soldier and beheaded him in the street ? was it the hindus who burned poppy's on rememberance day ? does any other religion in  this country pour scorn and preach hatred for the country they now live in in their religious holy places  ?

 

To ignore what is happening to our country through the threat of islamic radicalisation is the most foolish thing we could possibly do , because if the public do not see a strong responce from our government on this issue it is inevitable they will take matters into their own hands , and God help us all if that happens.

[Captain...]

Well time will tell but what is happening now has been simmering under the surfice of our society. There comes a point when people are forced to admit that we have a problem in our society from one particular group, and we have admit that group comes from a particular religion ie Islam.

 

Was it the jews who did the bombing on 7/7 ? was it the christians who ran down a defenseless soldier and beheaded him in the street ? was it the hindus who burned poppy's on rememberance day ? does any other religion in  this country pour scorn and preach hatred for the country they now live in in their religious holy places  ?

 

To ignore what is happening to our country through the threat of islamic radicalisation is the most foolish thing we could possibly do , because if the public do not see a strong responce from our government on this issue it is inevitable they will take matters into their own hands , and God help us all if that happens.

 

We shouldn't ignore it, but we should make sure that we target the right people and not all Muslims, we will be a lot more successful working with the decent Muslim communities, which are the majority, than alienating them and turning it into an anti Islam issue.