Woolwich

[yorkie1999]

You see I think you have every right and reason to criticise Islam on such grounds. Major religions are based on fear, judgement and a superiority complex (hardly the 'love to all men' attitude all their taglines suggest), and Islam appears the most severe when it comes to those things.

However, banishing them all from a country? No, that doesn't sit right with me. This country is full of people who I don't like and who have values and beliefs I don't agree with. Who behave in a way I don't agree with. You can't just banish people for being arseholes.

I don't know about that, I've been banished from many a public house for being an arsehole.

[theessexfox]

It's not hate filled. I don't hate Muslims. I was born and raised in Leicester, all the cliches about some of my best friends being Muslim are actually true. My best friend growing up was a guy called Khaleed. At the age if about 13 I really fancied his sister Adena. She liked me too, and we started holding hands at lunch time on the grass under the trees, making out shapes in the clouds and such. But it was ever so secretive. If another Muslim came near us, she would quickly pull her hand away and just stare at the ground until they had gone, and then it would be back to normal. One night I invited her to have dinner at my house and my family welcomed her with open arms. A great time was had by all. She sat with us and ate a roast chicken dinner and everyone was having a great laugh, until Khaleed knocked at the door and told Adena she must go home. Her happy smile was immediately replaced by fear as she hurriedly got her coat and shoes and left, looking back as she got to the top of the drive, with a sad smile and a wave.

Never saw her again after that. Her parents were disgusted with her for hanging out with a white guy and sent her off to live with a relative in Birmingham. It was then that I first knew there was something a bit 'off' about Islam. Of course that could have happened with a few different religions or races or maybe her parents just thought I was a cvnt. I don't know, but Khaleed informed me that she had an arranged marriage at 16 and was pregnant a year later. Khaleed wasn't allowed to speak to me either. Our friendship was lost.

I don't hate Muslims at all. I do, however, have some serious problems with their religion, and hope that in the future, we will have had the balls to banish it from at least our country, if not the world.

I agree to some extent that Islam is a backward religion, and I guess some traditional values mean that you will get things like occurred to you (not that that speaks for all of Islam, I went round many Muslim friends' houses back in school and they were normal, polite and great), and you do get extremists doing things in the name of Islam, but the millions of normal, good Muslims don't deserve to be thrown from the country like you suggest. No way. 

[MikeyT]

AUSTRALIAN PM – IF YOU'RE NOT HAPPY, LEAVE

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks..

Separately, Gillard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying she supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote: 

'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT.. Take It Or Leave It.
I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians. '

'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'

'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society .... Learn the language!'

'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'

'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'

'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.' 'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'

 

[The Year Of The Fox]

AUSTRALIAN PM – IF YOU'RE NOT HAPPY, LEAVE

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks..

Separately, Gillard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying she supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote: 

'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT.. Take It Or Leave It.

I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians. '

'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'

'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society .... Learn the language!'

'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'

'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'

'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.' 'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'

 

Why oh why can't our government be more like this? It's not racist at all.

[Matt]

AUSTRALIAN PM – IF YOU'RE NOT HAPPY, LEAVE

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks..

Separately, Gillard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying she supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote: 

'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT.. Take It Or Leave It.

I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians. '

'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'

'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society .... Learn the language!'

'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'

'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'

'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.' 'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'

 

 

 

Too right, fuck the religion aspect of that off though because as I said yesterday religion is myth, not real, the sooner people realise the better, it is the root of all evil but as regards to wanting to live in a country and living by their rules, languages, lifestyle, too right.

 

I wouldn't go to another country and not live by their rules or lifestyle, I wouldn't expect people in their own country to change for me, adapt for me.

[leicsmac]

AUSTRALIAN PM – IF YOU'RE NOT HAPPY, LEAVE

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks..

Separately, Gillard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying she supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote: 

'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT.. Take It Or Leave It.

I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians. '

'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'

'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society .... Learn the language!'

'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'

'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'

'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.' 'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'

 

 

I have actually been on the receiving end of this argument when working in the far East. Not the religious aspect (because Korea doesn't really have a religion that interferes with the governing system), but certainly the 'adapt to our culture, learn our language' spiel - from the more nationalistic of the Korean boys over there. 

 

You know what the effect of people putting articles like this out was? It just made the expatriate population over there (who by and large just wanted to do their engineering or teaching jobs and keep their heads down) more defensive, and more disposed to staying within their own groups speaking English. So, the opposite of the desired effect. 

 

I learned some pidgin Korean to help me get by, but by and large I did keep myself to myself and hung out largely with other Westerners rather than with Koreans. Because it felt more familiar that way. Was that wrong?

 

Edit: As an aside...of course if some nutter raises his head above the parapet in the expat community to spout rubbish or break the law in the country they have settled in then he or she should be dealt with. But again this speech is generalisation of an immigrant community that draws a line in the sand to no good end. It might sound good and tough, but it's actually counter-productive.

[The Year Of The Fox]

I have actually been on the receiving end of this argument when working in the far East. Not the religious aspect (because Korea doesn't really have a religion that interferes with the governing system), but certainly the 'adapt to our culture, learn our language' spiel - from the more nationalistic of the Korean boys over there. 

 

You know what the effect of people putting articles like this out was? It just made the expatriate population over there (who by and large just wanted to do their engineering or teaching jobs and keep their heads down) more defensive, and more disposed to staying within their own groups speaking English. So, the opposite of the desired effect. 

 

I learned some pidgin Korean to help me get by, but by and large I did keep myself to myself and hung out largely with other Westerners rather than with Koreans. Because it felt more familiar that way. Was that wrong?

 

Edit: As an aside...of course if some nutter raises his head above the parapet in the expat community to spout rubbish or break the law in the country they have settled in then he or she should be dealt with. But again this speech is generalisation of an immigrant community that draws a line in the sand to no good end. It might sound good and tough, but it's actually counter-productive.

How long were you out there for? Presumably you never had intentions of staying there long term? I'd expect you'd have integrated more if so? There is a grey area in that you can't be expected to learn a language everytime you visit somewhere different. You can make an effort though. I can speak a bit of Spanish and do so when I'm out there. I'm off to Italy next week and I haven't a prayer though

[Rincewind]

The majority of muslims condemn the killings not support it but as usual certain newspapers prefer to fuel the debate. This was a murder by two individuals who were outcast from their community and were not supported.

I don't follow religion but I know of groups containing more than one faith that work together to help others.

Let's look at the positive things they do instead of tarring them with the same brush. By saying 'all muslims are terrorists' it will only antagnoise the extremists more and enable them to say 'I told you so'

[leicsmac]

How long were you out there for? Presumably you never had intentions of staying there long term? I'd expect you'd have integrated more if so? There is a grey area in that you can't be expected to learn a language everytime you visit somewhere different. You can make an effort though. I can speak a bit of Spanish and do so when I'm out there. I'm off to Italy next week and I haven't a prayer though

 

I was out there for two years. There was a point when I was thinking about staying there a lot more long term (there was a better half involved) but I always had the plan in the back of my head to come back here for a Masters degree. So you could say it was short-term in general terms.

 

That said, I knew several folks who'd been out there for many, many years and intended to stay. Some were married to Koreans, some to other Westerners but still lived there because essentially they had a job for life. I would say about two-thirds of them spoke hardly any Korean at all if any (even the ones married to Koreans - their wives/husbands spoke excellent English for the most part), and as far as I could tell they didn't socialise with Koreans outside of their workplaces either. They made no effort to integrate whatsoever, and hung out largely in the expat bars. 

 

And you know what? I don't actually blame them for that. Adapting to a different culture to a big degree is damned scary, and if you do have other people around you who speak your language and know your culture it's so easy just to stick with them because it's comfortable. And that's the problem, really. People often do what's easy, rather than what's 'right'. Look at the English expats in Spain/Turkey for example.

[Jon the Hat]

That Australian PM quote is mostly nonsense. No Australiam pm ever said that, it is a selection of quotes from a number I'd politicians and a us general cobbled together to sound convincing. It has been circulating for nearly a decade.

[FoxesAreBlue]

AUSTRALIAN PM – IF YOU'RE NOT HAPPY, LEAVE

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks..

Separately, Gillard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying she supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote:

'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT.. Take It Or Leave It.

I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians. '

'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'

'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society .... Learn the language!'

'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'

'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'

'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.' 'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'

This

[purpleronnie]

This

 

But so what, they cant make them leave unless they commit certain crimes so its all hot air.

 

Does make me laugh the endless comments on the daily mail site about how we should tackle immigration like Australia does, despite the fact they have higher levels of immigration that we do....no sure the dail mail readers would be happy with more immigrants. .

[MooseBreath]

But so what, they cant make them leave unless they commit certain crimes so its all hot air.

 

Does make me laugh the endless comments on the daily mail site about how we should tackle immigration like Australia does, despite the fact they have higher levels of immigration that we do....no sure the dail mail readers would be happy with more immigrants. .

 

Their points system ensures a much higher class of immigrants though. They only take people who can contribute. not only do we take people who can't contribute, we also take people who literally want to kill British citizens.

[theessexfox]

Their points system ensures a much higher class of immigrants though. They only take people who can contribute. not only do we take people who can't contribute, we also take people who literally want to kill British citizens.

Should whether they want to do that be one of the questions? 

[Fox92]

AUSTRALIAN PM – IF YOU'RE NOT HAPPY, LEAVE

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks..

Separately, Gillard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying she supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote: 

'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT.. Take It Or Leave It.

I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians. '

'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'

'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society .... Learn the language!'

'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'

'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'

'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.' 'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'

 

 

Class... She should be our PM.

[Rincewind]

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/

 

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/asylum/

 

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/

 

Not read it all yet.

 

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/newsarticles/2013/april/15-settlementrequirements1

[Guest Bilo]

Why are we having a debate on immigration when these two filthy animals were born in Britain?

[danny.]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22664468

[Jon the Hat]

Class... She should be our PM.

She never said that.

[Rincewind]

Their points system ensures a much higher class of immigrants though. They only take people who can contribute. not only do we take people who can't contribute, we also take people who literally want to kill British citizens.

 

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/newsarticles/2013/april/15-settlementrequirements1

[Rincewind]

Why are we having a debate on immigration when these two filthy animals were born in Britain?

Because one or two were saying we only let the scum in.

[DennisNedry]

The problem with our immigration system is that we let too much shit in, we aren't selective enough in bringing in who we actually need.

 

I hope I don't offend anyone here, but take a walk down Melton Road, or through St Matthews and tell me:

- Do you honestly think that the immigrant population in these areas and others are actually contributing more to the country than they are taking out of it?

[The Year Of The Fox]

The majority of muslims condemn the killings not support it but as usual certain newspapers prefer to fuel the debate. This was a murder by two individuals who were outcast from their community and were not supported.

I don't follow religion but I know of groups containing more than one faith that work together to help others.

Let's look at the positive things they do instead of tarring them with the same brush. By saying 'all muslims are terrorists' it will only antagnoise the extremists more and enable them to say 'I told you so'

But not as vocally as they should Ken. Of course you get the Muslim groups who come on the TV and condemn, but do the men and women on the street do the same? I'm doubtful.

[The Year Of The Fox]

I was out there for two years. There was a point when I was thinking about staying there a lot more long term (there was a better half involved) but I always had the plan in the back of my head to come back here for a Masters degree. So you could say it was short-term in general terms.

 

That said, I knew several folks who'd been out there for many, many years and intended to stay. Some were married to Koreans, some to other Westerners but still lived there because essentially they had a job for life. I would say about two-thirds of them spoke hardly any Korean at all if any (even the ones married to Koreans - their wives/husbands spoke excellent English for the most part), and as far as I could tell they didn't socialise with Koreans outside of their workplaces either. They made no effort to integrate whatsoever, and hung out largely in the expat bars. 

 

And you know what? I don't actually blame them for that. Adapting to a different culture to a big degree is damned scary, and if you do have other people around you who speak your language and know your culture it's so easy just to stick with them because it's comfortable. And that's the problem, really. People often do what's easy, rather than what's 'right'. Look at the English expats in Spain/Turkey for example.

Oh I don't blame them for it either. You're miles away from home, you're bound to want to meet people from your own country- its a way of being a bit closer to home. For the most part though certainly in the case of some extremists, they were born in this country. They should integrate more so than their parents the same as if you'd had a kid in Korea.

[Guest MattP]

This is exactly the kind of limp wristed, self hating, apologetic sweeping under the carpet that I would hope we can avoid.

Limp wristed doesn't even cover it. Some ridiculous comparisons.

Had the diversity brigade got their way it would still be going on. Starting to wonder if it is a more sinister agenda.

Peter Tatchell was superb on the radio last night. A liberal tolerant society can simply not co exist with a remotly large Islamic population.