Col city fan Posted 12 August 2013 Share Posted 12 August 2013 I think that City fans and contributors to this forum could easily fall into the trap of overly-discussing our strikers. Which of them should play? Who plays best together? Should we looking for a 'Kenwyne Jones' type player? Etc etc.... I fear our strikers aren't the problem..... Any striker will thrive upon the numbers of chances created for them. Matty Fryatt was a great example of this. For every one Matty scored, he'd probably miss two. His strike rate was about 1in 3 chances taken. One of the main features of this current Pearson team is the lack of 'assists' created by team-members for whichever striker we are playing. The only player, last season, to appear in the top twenty Championship 'assisters' was actually Ben Marshall and, for some reason, he doesn't appear to be a regular. In my opinion, unless we can buck this trend and either start to create more chances for our strikers generally or sign/develop a player who is going to assist on a frequent basis, the debate over which is the best striker/pairing will continue to rage. Basically, play Wood or Vardy and I both think they will score goals, providing the chances are made for them. Yes, it's only two league games in and yes we are trying out a new formation. But yesterday's lack of creation in the final third had shades of the darkest days of last season, in terms of so little cutting edge. I don't think it's the strikers. I think it's the lack of chances made which is the issue. Opinions please... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shade Posted 12 August 2013 Share Posted 12 August 2013 this is a fact, not even an opinion that can be argued! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charl91 Posted 12 August 2013 Share Posted 12 August 2013 I think Nugent had a poor game yesterday. But you're right - in general, there's just no service to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgfualol Posted 12 August 2013 Share Posted 12 August 2013 I think the strikers did play pretty badly yesterday, wood made an impact, he was just unlucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANGEROUS TIGER Posted 12 August 2013 Share Posted 12 August 2013 Yup, that's agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno Posted 12 August 2013 Share Posted 12 August 2013 Dyer got the most assists last season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonaldinho Posted 12 August 2013 Share Posted 12 August 2013 Yes agreed, the lack of creativity in yesterday's team was frightening. Konchesky can't get forward regularly on the left due to his age, De Laet can get forward (ignoring yesterday as he was ill) but needs help from the midfielders to create an opportunity to get the ball into the box, and the creativity in the midfield was just non existent. Something has to change in the midfield. Playing Drinkwater, James and King is too defensive and they are too similar. I can't see us getting a playmaker in due to FFP, so we have to make use of what we've got. In my mind, if we are to stick with 3-5-2 (which I believe we should do), then one of Marshall or Knockaert simply has to start. Let's give Knockaert a free role at Derby, give him options on the ball, instruct the other two centre midfielders (James and Drinkwater for me) to sit a little deeper as he will lose the ball from time to time, and see what he can do. I've said it several times now, it's crucial to play between the lines with this system (as Watford do with great success), so playing Knockaert in the space between their defence and midfield will go some way to achieving that. And we can't keep playing Konchesky at LWB. It doesn't work. I think Schlupp should be given a go there, as he has the pace to get forward, stamina to get back and some defensive ability (not much I admit, but he doesn't need to be a fantastic defender to play LWB.) Maybe Bakayogo will fit in there too, yet after missing pre-season I imagine we are making sure he gets back to full fitness. To summarise, do this and in my opinion we will create a lot more for the strikers. I'm not sure who our best partnership is, but I'm certain that whoever it is will struggle if we continue to play like we did yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdb Posted 12 August 2013 Share Posted 12 August 2013 final ball was poor yesterday - some loose passes from King and Drinkwater in particular iirc, although I thought they both played OK overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox92 Posted 12 August 2013 Share Posted 12 August 2013 The service isn't good enough at times, said this before. Even if we do bring Dyer on, he doesn't take anyone on and he's hardly awake. I heard a lot of people leaving the ground at the side of me saying 'is Dyer ever switched on' and I agree. We miss a driving central midfielder. I know this is a bad comparison, but I look back at videos of Izzet and he would pick the ball up, and he would run with it. We haven't got a midfielder who does this now. King's finishing is really good, but he often goes sidewards instead of forwards. There was one time yesterday where he had a lot of space in front of him, but he didn't go forward. Also, there was a chance where Wood and Nugent were going for a cross, Nugent headed it to the edge of the area and none of our midfielders were there to shoot. It's no wonder the strikers get annoyed, I watch other teams and they seem to have that one midfielder who is on the end of everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadt Posted 12 August 2013 Share Posted 12 August 2013 King was shit yesterday,worst I've seen him play,James doesn't look right and Drinkwater was his usual sideways self. 352 will take some games to get used to but we should definitely persist with especially away from home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucalion Posted 12 August 2013 Share Posted 12 August 2013 Nugent will come back on form and both Vardy and Wood have started positively. Strikers are probably the least of our worries at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_w Posted 12 August 2013 Share Posted 12 August 2013 Why is anyone blaming anyone for anything? We're only two games in to the season, we've made a fairly good start and we're adapting to a new formation. Yesterday was a dull game, yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean there's any underlying problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5waller5 Posted 12 August 2013 Share Posted 12 August 2013 It's fair to say that the service was appalling to the strikers yesterday. The whitlow ..... ooops Whitbread long diagonals were particularly sunday league. But the strikers need to take some responsibility too .... their hold up play in the first half was awful ..... it just didn't stick to them ..... every ball upto the top two just came back. Vardy hasn't got the greatest control and Nugent had a very poor game for a good player. One of those days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monsell1976 Posted 12 August 2013 Share Posted 12 August 2013 It's fair to say that the service was appalling to the strikers yesterday. The whitlow ..... ooops Whitbread long diagonals were particularly sunday league. But the strikers need to take some responsibility too .... their hold up play in the first half was awful ..... it just didn't stick to them ..... every ball upto the top two just came back. Vardy hasn't got the greatest control and Nugent had a very poor game for a good player. One of those days. I have to agree that they were starved of any service for most of the game, and the frustration of nugent and vardy was clear as they ended up with pot shots from distance.Yes the strikers do look out of sorts, but with chances few and far between I think they are snatching at them. Drinkwater has a place in the sqaud but for me slows the ball down to much, and with this formation it's about attacking on the break, for me Sunday it was crying out for him to go off and bring on a creative player from a early stage, as Leeds offered very little going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADK Posted 12 August 2013 Share Posted 12 August 2013 It's abit silly talking about lack of assists, you only get an assist if the ball goes in the net. So it could be the strikers fault afterall. Personally i agree that yesterday Vardy in particular received absolutely no service. Nugent had the ball a fair bit and was wasteful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col city fan Posted 12 August 2013 Author Share Posted 12 August 2013 It's fair to say that the service was appalling to the strikers yesterday. The whitlow ..... ooops Whitbread long diagonals were particularly sunday league. But the strikers need to take some responsibility too .... their hold up play in the first half was awful ..... it just didn't stick to them ..... every ball upto the top two just came back. Vardy hasn't got the greatest control and Nugent had a very poor game for a good player. One of those days. I agree and tried to make the point in the OP about Fryatt. Why he scored so many goals in League 1 was because he had so many chances. It's law of averages. Strikers that are getting chances will miss a few, but the more they get, the better their confidence will become and they will start scoring. When devoid of chances, any they get they will snatch at. It's really not rocket science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5waller5 Posted 12 August 2013 Share Posted 12 August 2013 I agree and tried to make the point in the OP about Fryatt. Why he scored so many goals in League 1 was because he had so many chances. It's law of averages. Strikers that are getting chances will miss a few, but the more they get, the better their confidence will become and they will start scoring. When devoid of chances, any they get they will snatch at. It's really not rocket science. Equally neither Vardy or Nugent did anything to create a chance for themselves .... I thought Wood showed them the way quite nicely creating a couple of chances for himself. Poor game all round ..... as much analysis as we can probably make to be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col city fan Posted 12 August 2013 Author Share Posted 12 August 2013 Equally neither Vardy or Nugent did anything to create a chance for themselves .... I thought Wood showed them the way quite nicely creating a couple of chances for himself. Poor game all round ..... as much analysis as we can probably make to be fair. Very true to be fair. I just find it hard to accept that either Nuge or Vardy are poor strikers. Scoring goals is pretty much a confidence thing I reckon. Give them the chances and soon enough, they'll be pinging them in. You are right though. Neither made anything for themselves either. Nugent when on form, actually makes and takes his own goals. Yesterday, he himself was poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Weasel Fox Posted 12 August 2013 Share Posted 12 August 2013 Very true to be fair. I just find it hard to accept that either Nuge or Vardy are poor strikers. Scoring goals is pretty much a confidence thing I reckon. Give them the chances and soon enough, they'll be pinging them in. You are right though. Neither made anything for themselves either. Nugent when on form, actually makes and takes his own goals. Yesterday, he himself was poor. We looked better when Knocky and Dyer came on second half IMO Col. A couple of times Knocky slipped other players in and Dyers pace will always cause panic in defences Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RothleyFox Posted 12 August 2013 Share Posted 12 August 2013 If we play 3 - 5 - 2 , then we rely heavily on the two wingbacks both pushing forward and then defending when the opposition have the ball ! We will not be able to create enough chances for our strikers if we continue to play as narrow as we did yesterday, the midfield really didn't have many options when they had the ball Surely in this formation Schlupp would be a better option , De Laet did Ok but was obviously injured / (or ill) We need players that can run for the full 90 minutes, and as a final point the Leeds CB Austin is just the sort of player we need , read the game very well and made many good clearances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayday Posted 12 August 2013 Share Posted 12 August 2013 I sat in the family enclosure with me kids and one thing I noticed was our two full backs were playing far to deep,meaning our midfield could do sweet f.a as we had no width. That's why we struggled yesterday, its easy to blame the midfield and the strikers, yet I was more concerned with the full backs, as it turned out De Leat was ill(why was he even playing )so cannot really call him, but I think he and Moore as a covering defender for the right side looks promising. Our weakness is definitely the left , whitbread is to slow to cover which means Konchesky is not getting forward as he is to concerned that we will be exploited down that side. If we are going to play that system we really need to execute it as we will so far more dire games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sycokilla Posted 13 August 2013 Share Posted 13 August 2013 yesterdays game was one of the dullest I have watched for a long time but with 2 of the most safety first and conservative managers in this league it is hardly surprising........i did not think anyone of our players played really badly but I have to agree with people who are saying that the midfield played sideways too often......when we were on a roll last year we took chances on passing forwards and at speed which always scares an opposition defence.....now we are playing too much safety first keep ball, passing across the field and unless you have the talent of Barcelona this is really dull football.......one can only hope the Pearson becomes a little more adventurous with instructions to players at the moment they are all too scared of loosing the ball to be creative.....and I do think that the likes of Drinky, James, Knocky, Marshal and king have enough talent to make an impression on this division....but while they are playing in such an inhibited fashion this season will be a hard slog...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynamark Posted 13 August 2013 Share Posted 13 August 2013 Pearson is Margaret Thatcher conservative.The 532 which is what it is under him is ultra defensive.carry on in this way and we will be about 8/10. The middle three are all out and out centre halfs not stepping forward or sideways easily.de laet can do a job as wing back particulrily working with Knocky.On the left Lloyd is more comfortable further forward and pulling players towards him.What the hell they have been doing close season is beyond me.Schlupp needs to play LWB in the 352 hes happy upfield and knows what the goal looks like.Its all about midfield being a few yards futher upfield with a formation that gives security at the back/centre back.Knocky maybe not starting every week but he should get at least a half went round the players telling em to give him the ball and hed do something. Four points decent start points wise but we have seen some very average football not top six material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sylofox Posted 13 August 2013 Share Posted 13 August 2013 I think that City fans and contributors to this forum could easily fall into the trap of overly-discussing our strikers. Which of them should play? Who plays best together? Should we looking for a 'Kenwyne Jones' type player? Etc etc.... I fear our strikers aren't the problem..... Any striker will thrive upon the numbers of chances created for them. Matty Fryatt was a great example of this. For every one Matty scored, he'd probably miss two. His strike rate was about 1in 3 chances taken. One of the main features of this current Pearson team is the lack of 'assists' created by team-members for whichever striker we are playing. The only player, last season, to appear in the top twenty Championship 'assisters' was actually Ben Marshall and, for some reason, he doesn't appear to be a regular. In my opinion, unless we can buck this trend and either start to create more chances for our strikers generally or sign/develop a player who is going to assist on a frequent basis, the debate over which is the best striker/pairing will continue to rage. Basically, play Wood or Vardy and I both think they will score goals, providing the chances are made for them. Yes, it's only two league games in and yes we are trying out a new formation. But yesterday's lack of creation in the final third had shades of the darkest days of last season, in terms of so little cutting edge. I don't think it's the strikers. I think it's the lack of chances made which is the issue. Opinions please... That's the first sensible thing you've said lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col city fan Posted 13 August 2013 Author Share Posted 13 August 2013 That's the first sensible thing you've said lol I didn't mean YOUR opinion Welly.. You can keep that to yersen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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