Public opinion and the politics of immigration

[davieG]

I recently took part in an online poll organised by Lord Ashcroft here are the results

 

It's a very long report but towards the end you'll find all the numerical results

 

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/LORD-ASHCROFT-Public-opinion-and-the-politics-of-immigration2.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I did a similar one on the UKIP back in January

 

http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/topic/85473-the-ukip-threat-is-not-about-europe/?hl=ashcroft

[WhatsHisName]

Unless there are pics in it of scantily clad women, then many here will simply not be interested

[Free Falling Foxes]

I tire of the 'economical benefit' argument put forward to justify the arrival of migrants. Even Short term it is doubtful - long term there's non whatsoever. 

 

Anything they may contribute is cancelled out by the need for them to have housing, services, education for any children, health care, etc. They add to a balance of payments deficit because of the growing need to have their food preferences imported. Many I know even send their money back 'home' so it doesn't even stay in our economy. Now we hear our schools will be short of places because of migrant children!!

 

I've not even mentioned those that come into the country with no intention of contributing. Two Asian colleagues have recently 'imported' wives they went overseas to marry. Sure they had to prove they could financially 'keep' them but what if - goodness forbid - they needed some major health care?

 

Even senior politicians are calling for a cap.

 

To me it's a no-brainer.

[leicsmac]

I tire of the 'economical benefit' argument put forward to justify the arrival of migrants. Even Short term it is doubtful - long term there's non whatsoever.

Anything they may contribute is cancelled out by the need for them to have housing, services, education for any children, health care, etc. They add to a balance of payments deficit because of the growing need to have their food preferences imported. Many I know even send their money back 'home' so it doesn't even stay in our economy. Now we hear our schools will be short of places because of migrant children!!

I've not even mentioned those that come into the country with no intention of contributing. Two Asian colleagues have recently 'imported' wives they went overseas to marry. Sure they had to prove they could financially 'keep' them but what if - goodness forbid - they needed some major health care?

Even senior politicians are calling for a cap.

To me it's a no-brainer.

I worked in the Far East for two years. I used their services, housing and enjoyed having western food imported to eat. I sent practically all my spare money 'home'. Some of my friends intended to stay there for life.

There were some of the native population there who thought that I and my fellow workers shouldn't be there.

Do you think they were/are right?

[Free Falling Foxes]

I worked in the Far East for two years. I used their services, housing and enjoyed having western food imported to eat. I sent practically all my spare money 'home'. Some of my friends intended to stay there for life.

There were some of the native population there who thought that I and my fellow workers shouldn't be there.

Do you think they were/are right?

For having the same view as I.....................what do you think?

[Head Honcho]

I tire of the 'economical benefit' argument put forward to justify the arrival of migrants. Even Short term it is doubtful - long term there's non whatsoever. 

 

Anything they may contribute is cancelled out by the need for them to have housing, services, education for any children, health care, etc. They add to a balance of payments deficit because of the growing need to have their food preferences imported. Many I know even send their money back 'home' so it doesn't even stay in our economy. Now we hear our schools will be short of places because of migrant children!!

 

I've not even mentioned those that come into the country with no intention of contributing. Two Asian colleagues have recently 'imported' wives they went overseas to marry. Sure they had to prove they could financially 'keep' them but what if - goodness forbid - they needed some major health care?

 

Even senior politicians are calling for a cap.

 

To me it's a no-brainer.

Can't really argue with this. Although  many will...

[leicsmac]

For having the same view as I.....................what do you think?

I'm guessing so then. ;-)

So despite performing a valuable service over there I shouldn't have been allowed to be there in the first place?

[James.]

I'm guessing so then. ;-)

So despite performing a valuable service over there I shouldn't have been allowed to be there in the first place?

 

Are you saying all immigrants to this country provide valuable services? You taught in South Korea right? I'm not sure you can use your specific example as a general argument against what FFF was saying.

[leicsmac]

Are you saying all immigrants to this country provide valuable services? You taught in South Korea right? I'm not sure you can use your specific example as a general argument against what FFF was saying.

 

I'm not really going in for a specific attack on what he was saying, I was just warning against the dangers of generalisation. He generalised extensively in his post, and I supplied an example of how an immigrant can perform a valuable service to counter it. 

 

Of course I'm not saying all immigrants to the UK do similar, but I'm pretty sure that there are those that do and we need to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater just because this is a hot-potato issue.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

I tire of the 'economical benefit' argument put forward to justify the arrival of migrants. Even Short term it is doubtful - long term there's non whatsoever. 

 

Anything they may contribute is cancelled out by the need for them to have housing, services, education for any children, health care, etc. They add to a balance of payments deficit because of the growing need to have their food preferences imported. Many I know even send their money back 'home' so it doesn't even stay in our economy. Now we hear our schools will be short of places because of migrant children!!

 

I've not even mentioned those that come into the country with no intention of contributing. Two Asian colleagues have recently 'imported' wives they went overseas to marry. Sure they had to prove they could financially 'keep' them but what if - goodness forbid - they needed some major health care?

 

Even senior politicians are calling for a cap.

 

To me it's a no-brainer.

100% correct,     

[Guest MattP]

I tire of the 'economical benefit' argument put forward to justify the arrival of migrants. Even Short term it is doubtful - long term there's non whatsoever.

Anything they may contribute is cancelled out by the need for them to have housing, services, education for any children, health care, etc. They add to a balance of payments deficit because of the growing need to have their food preferences imported. Many I know even send their money back 'home' so it doesn't even stay in our economy. Now we hear our schools will be short of places because of migrant children!!

I've not even mentioned those that come into the country with no intention of contributing. Two Asian colleagues have recently 'imported' wives they went overseas to marry. Sure they had to prove they could financially 'keep' them but what if - goodness forbid - they needed some major health care?

Even senior politicians are calling for a cap.

To me it's a no-brainer.

Super post.

[The Year Of The Fox]

I'm glad we've finally moved on from the 'bigot' era of Gordon Brown.

 

This country is full, of that there is no argument.

 

There are enough British people who drain this country dry on benefits without adding to that number via immigration.

 

Likewise our NHS and schools are at breaking point due to indigenous people as well as existing immigrants.

 

We have a 5m shortage of council houses as we currently stand.

 

Close our borders and lets get ourselves sorted in house before allowing immigrants in again. It's also very much a one way thing being part of the EU. I know of no one who has moved to Poland/Bulgaria etc in search of work.

 

I was speaking to a Bulgarian English tour guide when on holiday. He said our country is laughed at for the above reasons by the Bulgarian public.

[purpleronnie]

Its odd then that results show immigrants are much less likely to claim benefits than british born.

[leicsmac]

100% correct,     

 

 

Super post.

 

 

Despite the above rebuttal?

 

Be selective, sure, but generalisations like that and suggestions of a blanket ban are daft when we do have immigrants that come here and fulfil skill shortages, providing valuable services.

 

And as I put above, if every country followed in the same vein you'd have a bunch of skilled Brits being denied the opportunity to take those skilled jobs abroad.

[purpleronnie]

I imagine a lot of left wing 'its all ok' posts and a lot of right wing back slapping 'its all terrible' posts.

 

Commence!

[The Year Of The Fox]

Its odd then that results show immigrants are much less likely to claim benefits than british born.

That still doesn't deal with the rest of the issues raised in my post

[Harry - LCFC]

It seems to be that we're moving into a period where too many of the 'wrong' people are coming and this is will cause problems.

 

In the past we had doctors migrating and providing valuable work in the NHS, I wasn't around back then so I don't know what it was like but I get the impression that immigration is becoming quite a pressing problem now whereas it wasn't so much of an issue back then?

 

Its odd then that results show immigrants are much less likely to claim benefits than british born.

 

 

Here's a graph to show it (source: https://twitter.com/FullFact). Think it's fair to say that abuse of the welfare system isn't a major concern, other issues maybe but not this.

[Guest MattP]

If they have valuable skills they should be welcome. What shouldn't be happening is people arriving here to do jobs on minimum wage because the natives are being paid to do nothing

No idea why you be surprised at that Ron, it's what happens when you pay the underclass to breed.

[bovril]

I'm glad we've finally moved on from the 'bigot' era of Gordon Brown.

 

This country is full, of that there is no argument.

 

There are enough British people who drain this country dry on benefits without adding to that number via immigration.

 

Likewise our NHS and schools are at breaking point due to indigenous people as well as existing immigrants.

 

We have a 5m shortage of council houses as we currently stand.

 

Close our borders and lets get ourselves sorted in house before allowing immigrants in again. It's also very much a one way thing being part of the EU. I know of no one who has moved to Poland/Bulgaria etc in search of work.

 

I was speaking to a Bulgarian English tour guide when on holiday. He said our country is laughed at for the above reasons by the Bulgarian public.

 

Bulgarians don't laugh at Britain (apart from if it's dubious 1970s British comedy shows on BGTV). They admire our democracy, free press and the way we look after the less fortunate members of society. Having said that if you say to a Bulgarian "Brits are worried about mass immigration from Bulgaria" most would respond with "I'm not surprised" - maybe that's where your tour guide was coming from.

I know a lot of Brits who work in Eastern Europe, British companies are the second biggest investor in BG and most if not all of the Brits are on good wages - and almost all of them send the money back home. Sure it's a bit of a one way street at the moment but maybe it shouldn't be. Plenty of opportunities all over the world for out of work Brits. We're incredibly well respected abroad.

In general though I doubt we disagree as much as you think we might.

 

[James.]

Despite the above rebuttal?

 

Be selective, sure, but generalisations like that and suggestions of a blanket ban are daft when we do have immigrants that come here and fulfil skill shortages, providing valuable services.

 

And as I put above, if every country followed in the same vein you'd have a bunch of skilled Brits being denied the opportunity to take those skilled jobs abroad.

 

I think it goes without saying that those with valuable services should be allowed and any arguments simply stating "close the borders" are stupid. The key issue is whether we've actually done that or if we've been far too accommodative...

 

As a general point there is a natural tendency (that I'm guilty of as well) for people who raise immigration concerns to be categorised unfairly.

[purpleronnie]

That still doesn't deal with the rest of the issues raised in my post

At least thanks to immigration we have the much needed doctors and nurses working in the NHS, the NHS is one of the great institutions of immigration and integration too.

[The Year Of The Fox]

Bulgarians don't laugh at Britain (apart from if it's dubious 1970s British comedy shows on BGTV). They admire our democracy, free press and the way we look after the less fortunate members of society. Having said that if you say to a Bulgarian "Brits are worried about mass immigration from Bulgaria" most would respond with "I'm not surprised" - maybe that's where your tour guide was coming from.

I know a lot of Brits who work in Eastern Europe, British companies are the second biggest investor in BG and most if not all of the Brits are on good wages - and almost all of them send the money back home. Sure it's a bit of a one way street at the moment but maybe it shouldn't be. Plenty of opportunities all over the world for out of work Brits. We're incredibly well respected abroad.

In general though I doubt we disagree as much as you think we might.

 

It was more when explaining about how our NHS works, and (sometimes) our benefits system. He couldn't believe some aspects of it. When you think about it some of it does beg belief.

[The Year Of The Fox]

At least thanks to immigration we have the much needed doctors and nurses working in the NHS, the NHS is one of the great institutions of immigration and integration too.

No I know. But for every doctor there will be someone on minimum paid jobs or even eventually claiming on the system. Reagrdless of their jobs, what about schools?

 

The government have cut funding to improve existing schools, never mind to build new ones.

[Trav Le Bleu]

Have just come back from Ireland and the place is full of Poles, Slovaks and Russians. We bang on about this like we're the only country in the world that anyone wants to try and get into. It's simply not true; we're just a part of the Western world that includes many countries, which less affluent nationalities would understandably like a piece of.

 

I wonder how many of the people who moan about immigration would, if the UK seriously went down the pan, look to move abroad to find better pay.

[Nick]

Have just come back from Ireland and the place is full of Poles, Slovaks and Russians. We bang on about this like we're the only country in the world that anyone wants to try and get into. It's simply not true; we're just a part of the Western world that includes many countries, which less affluent nationalities would understandably like a piece of.

 

I wonder how many of the people who moan about immigration would, if the UK seriously went down the pan, look to move abroad to find better pay.

 

Fair post. Many of the people I meet who are scared to death of immigration, integration and loss of perceived identity and taxes, would be the first people to exploit just about anybody for cash and their own gain in any country they had the opportunity and ability to do so in.

 

Did anybody read the Ashcroft Report or are people just shooting their load of pre-spent sixpences into the thread?