Public opinion and the politics of immigration

[The God Emperor]

all for immigration, but I'd try to limit it a bit due to the large welfare state we have with the increased demand and strain it can cause.

but if it wasn't for that give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to breath free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore, send these the homeless, tempest tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door

[Rincewind]

We have the doors open so the better skilled and most needed apply to come here if there were restrictions they would choose somewhere ekse even if it meant a lower standard of living. Because in some cases anywhere would  be better than where they came from.

 

be better

[The Year Of The Fox]

ooo, hold on to your hats, Samilktray is lurking now he's seen an immigration thread.

[DennisNedry]

Don't fall into the trap of those 'UK nationals claim more benefits than immigrants' graphs.

 

Because of how high immigration to this country has been for a while now, we have millions of 2nd/3rd generation immigrants which are technically British. Have you been to highfields in the past 20 years? There's a few thousand 'British' claimants right there.

[absolutelegend]

I worked in the Far East for two years. I used their services, housing and enjoyed having western food imported to eat. I sent practically all my spare money 'home'. Some of my friends intended to stay there for life.

There were some of the native population there who thought that I and my fellow workers shouldn't be there.

Do you think they were/are right?

 

Daftest question ever.  Depends on various factors relating to the country you were in at the time.

 

Basically it boils down to this; do they need you? can they afford you? will you make their country a better place?  These decisions are made by the governments of each country in the world*, and vary from place to place.

 

*except if you are in the EU.

[MooseBreath]

I think we should trade open doors on a country by country basis. Put a yes/no vote to the population of each country - start with Andorra for example, ask the population of each if they'd like to trade open doors, if they both get a majority yes then both doors are opened to each other, if either gets a no then the doors remain closed.

[Webbo]

I think we should trade open doors on a country by country basis. Put a yes/no vote to the population of each country - start with Andorra for example, ask the population of each if they'd like to trade open doors, if they both get a majority yes then both doors are opened to each other, if either gets a no then the doors remain closed.

I think Bulgaria and Poland will let any of us in.

[leicsmac]

Daftest question ever. Depends on various factors relating to the country you were in at the time.

Basically it boils down to this; do they need you? can they afford you? will you make their country a better place? These decisions are made by the governments of each country in the world*, and vary from place to place.

*except if you are in the EU.

Exactly. I was just using a but of rhetoric to illustrate the point that all of these situations are different and you can't generalise.

[Father Ted]

People have finally woken up and beginning to stand up to the EU.

 

What benefits does 'freedom of movement' have to the UK? Overpopulation, increasing unemployment rates, increased spending on benefits, healthcare and other public funded benefits. To people from the outside, countries like Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary and so on where standards of living are poor and wages are poor the UK is brilliant. Free housing, even if you don't work you'll still get paid, free healthcare! What else can you ask for?

 

F the EU off and stop EU immigration, it will break the UK.

[The Year Of The Fox]

I think we should trade open doors on a country by country basis. Put a yes/no vote to the population of each country - start with Andorra for example, ask the population of each if they'd like to trade open doors, if they both get a majority yes then both doors are opened to each other, if either gets a no then the doors remain closed.

The thing is, Andorra would soon shut their borders if they got too full!

[Harry - LCFC]

Don't fall into the trap of those 'UK nationals claim more benefits than immigrants' graphs.

 

Because of how high immigration to this country has been for a while now, we have millions of 2nd/3rd generation immigrants which are technically British. Have you been to highfields in the past 20 years? There's a few thousand 'British' claimants right there.

 

Fair comment, you're quite right to point that out. Still can't imagine the figures given are that unrepresentative of latter generation immigrants - work ethic tends to get passed down through the family.

[I am Rod Hull]

Cultural suicide...

[DennisNedry]

Fair comment, you're quite right to point that out. Still can't imagine the figures given are that unrepresentative of latter generation immigrants - work ethic tends to get passed down through the family.

 

Indeed they do, but then so does the lack of a work ethic. This is true of all ethnic groups.

[MooseBreath]

Interesting that some kind of Muslim women association has come out this morning blaming the police and social services for failing to protect Muslim girls being groomed by Muslim paedo gangs.

Only a matter of time before we import the Delhi rape culture too I guess.

My stance on immigration has softened since it doesn't affect me that much anymore and long term emigration plans draw ever closer, but I really feel for the Brits left in city centres and scrambling for jobs at the bottom of the ladder.

[hairy]

Interesting that some kind of Muslim women association has come out this morning blaming the police and social services for failing to protect Muslim girls being groomed by Muslim paedo gangs.

Only a matter of time before we import the Delhi rape culture too I guess.

 

Interesting fact:- some paedo gangs are Christian.

 

Another Interesting fact:- Gang 'rape culture' exists in every country, in every continent in the world. It is not specific to Delhi.

[MooseBreath]

Interesting fact:- some paedo gangs are Christian.

Another Interesting fact:- Gang 'rape culture' exists in every country, in every continent in the world. It is not specific to Delhi.

We've been round the houses with this one before. Most people recognise that the nature of the Muslim paedo gangs (brothers, fathers, friends etc) getting together to rape kids adds an additional extremely disturbing element to an already horrific scenario, which is quite unique to these particular gangs.

Also I don't think you'll find many more rape friendly cities than Delhi, and if you seriously think the rape problem in Delhi is no worse than in any other city then do some reading, because it is, much worse.

But none of that is really the point. My point is that if you import underclass from third world countries don't be surprised when horrors like this turn up on your doorstep.

[hairy]

So if we as a country were to offer refuge to a 'underclass' family threatened by violence, torture, rape or paedos in their own country and who have no other means of escape then we have it coming to ourselves. Rape and paedos that is. Two crimes that are never carried out by lower, working, middle or upper class people.

[Finnegan]

The country is not full. If the country was full we'd have to panic and stop breeding.

I hate that argument.

I accept some practical anti-immigration arguments, I'm not completely, blindly pro but I hate the sensationalist crap you get in the Mail n'all. How can anyone seriously believe we're "full?" What do people think that even means?!

[purpleronnie]

The country is not full. If the country was full we'd have to panic and stop breeding.

I hate that argument.

 

me too, it's just such a stupid thing to say, you read it all the time on daily mail.

[James.]

The country is not full. If the country was full we'd have to panic and stop breeding.

I hate that argument.

I accept some practical anti-immigration arguments, I'm not completely, blindly pro but I hate the sensationalist crap you get in the Mail n'all. How can anyone seriously believe we're "full?" What do people think that even means?!

 

I don't think it's intended to be taken literally. Maybe I give some people too much credit but I think it's just a lazy way of saying we should limit immigration due to the pressure put on local services and welfare as well as the impact on unemployment amongst British born workers.

 

That said I imagine the media use it to stoke anti-immigration sentiment as it's quite a provocative way of highlighting the issue.

[Strokes]

The country is not full. If the country was full we'd have to panic and stop breeding.

I hate that argument.

I accept some practical anti-immigration arguments, I'm not completely, blindly pro but I hate the sensationalist crap you get in the Mail n'all. How can anyone seriously believe we're "full?" What do people think that even means?!

Yeah there are plenty of unoccupied bridges for people to reside under.

[DennisNedry]

The country is not full. If the country was full we'd have to panic and stop breeding.

I hate that argument.

I accept some practical anti-immigration arguments, I'm not completely, blindly pro but I hate the sensationalist crap you get in the Mail n'all. How can anyone seriously believe we're "full?" What do people think that even means?!

 

I always took it to mean full as in not enough houses, school places, jobs, etc

[Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo]

If they have valuable skills they should be welcome. What shouldn't be happening is people arriving here to do jobs on minimum wage because the natives are being paid to do nothing

Spot on

 

Sounds like the Australian immigration policy. Are you coming here to provide a service for us in return for us letting you live here? If so, welcome aboard. Otherwise, no thanks

 

I have no idea why this hasn't been implemented in all developed countries

[MooseBreath]

I have no idea why this hasn't been implemented in all developed countries

Because opening the floodgates to economic migrants is a good way to keep your headline GDP figure in steady growth territory while making sure you've got good numbers of new poor people who you can effectively pay for votes over the next couple of decades.

[Harry - LCFC]

Interesting that some kind of Muslim women association has come out this morning blaming the police and social services for failing to protect Muslim girls being groomed by Muslim paedo gangs.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong in any of what I say here.

 

I get the impression you're implying that these women are being hypocritical by calling for a clamp down on rape. This, you feel, is hypocritical because these women and the criminals follow the same religion and are therefore to be viewed as one group, where the actions of some can be used to represent the rest of Islam.

 

Again I see it as just another instance of lumping everyone into one category which is far too simplistic. Muslims are a social group I agree but that grouping can be divided further. The women and the criminals share a religion but their social beliefs appear to differ enough for me to view them as separate from each other. There's no hypocrisy in what this association are doing IMO.